Question from a newbie

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Chris & Queenie

Chris & Queenie

Member Since 2015
I've been giving insulin for about a week. This is my fist Sugar Kitty. Her numbers have been bouncing all over the place but mostly been between 350 and 600. I test in the morning and sometimes after the insulin. She's getting 2 units of the lantus. This morning before I fed her her BG was 205 now @ 90 minutes later when she's due for her shot her BG is 186. She seems just fine, ate a whole lot this morning but overnight had not peed nearly as much as normal. Yesterday I had moved her into my kitchen since she was doing better and I needed my infirmary room for another kitty (long story), but bottom line is I feel she's getting more activity.

Advice? I am going to call the vet next.
 
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Hi Christine,

Just want to check I've understood correctly:
You checked your kitty's blood glucose this morning and it was 205?
You fed her, and 90 minutes later her blood glucose was 186?

Those are almost the same number, but it is not clear that her blood glucose is actually rising, and it may be elevated by food, so you may want to hold off from giving the shot at this point.

What exactly is your concern?
Is it that the numbers are lower than you've previously seen?

Eliz
 
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Elizabeth and Bertie said:
Hi Chris,

Just want to check I've understood correctly:
You checked your kitty's blood glucose this morning and it was 205?
You fed her, and 90 minutes later her blood glucose was 186?

Those are almost the same number, but it is not clear that her blood glucose is actually rising, and it may be elevated by food, so you may want to hold off from giving the shot at this point.

What exactly is your concern?
Is it that the numbers are lower than you've previously seen?

Eliz
Click to expand...
Hi Eliz,

Yes My concern is that after she ate and before I gave her injection the number was going down. Previous numbers have never been below 300.

Here's a snapshot of the past few days. This kitty has a great appetite all the time.

3/8 8:45 PM BG 357 2 units appetite good
3/9 7:58 AM BG 494 Appetite good
3/9 8:30 AM 2 units
3/9 8:46 PM BG 556 2 units Appetite good
3/10 8:40 AM BG 447 2 units appetite good
3/10 8:37 PM BG 333 2 units appetite good
3/11 8:35 AM BG 531 2 units appetite good
3/11 1:49 PM BG 473
3/11 8:40 PM 2 units appetite good
3/11 11:10 PM BG 302
3/12 7:34 AM BG 205 Appetite good
3/12 8:39 AM BG 186 Appetite good (NOW WHAT?)
 
Those numbers seem to be creeping down nicely, Christine. :)

Lantus is a 'depot' insulin, that needs to build up a little store in the body before the dose shows the full effect of what it can do. And it may be that what you're seeing now is the 'true' effect of this dose.

The 205 and 186 are pretty much the same number (allowing for meter variation), but what we don't know is whether your kitty would have continued to drop lower if you hadn't fed her in between those tests.

Did you actually give the shot?
 
Okey dokey, Christine.

The general recommendation here is that - for those new to dealing with diabetes - no shot is given if the blood glucose (at the time of the shot) is below 200. That's just to allow some buffer of safety until the caregiver has got an idea of how the insulin is working in the cat's body.

And it's also not generally recommended to give a shot on a falling number.
Ideally, it should be evident that the blood glucose is past the lowest point of the cycle and is seen to be rising.

So, according to those general guidelines you did the right thing. :cat:

With Lantus, the dosage is worked out according to the lowest number of the cycle, and not on the preshot number. So it would be really good if you could get some mid-cycle test numbers. (And especially since it seems that your kitty's numbers may be coming down a notch over all.)

It would also be great if you could put your kitty's numbers onto a spreadsheet (we have a specific one that we use). That way, if you need help someone can see your kitty's numbers/history at a glance. If you'd like to set up a spreadsheet there are some smart techy people here who can help you (sadly I'm not one of them. ;))

Eliz
 
I see that the times of the blood test are slightly different. Can I just confirm that you always get a pre shot reading that is taken before food is given?

We recommend that you
Test, feed and then give insulin. You then feed as you like during the cycle but remove the food 2 hours prior to the next shot being given. If you take a test after food it will be influenced by the food.

It would be really if you could start a spreasheet so that everyone can easily look at the test results. If you click on my link you will see how the colour coding really helps to interpret the tests.

Here is how you go about doing it.
http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/...te-a-ss-and-link-it-in-your-signature.130337/

Any problems and @Marje and Gracie will be able to help.

Can I also get you to amend your signature so that it includes some details about your cat, food given, the meter you are using and the insulin.

One final thing 2 units of lantus is a high dose for a newly diagnosed kitty so please do try to get some mid cycle readings.
 
Ok, thanks for all the help today. I have updated my signature and will look over the spreadsheet. If I have questions about the sheet I will get in touch with Marje. I am planning to do a curve on Sunday.
The vet did eventually call me back today but I had decided to go ahead and give the Lantus at noon once I saw the BG rising (Now I know when in doubt to hold off, but luckily I think between a good appetite and fortunate timing I did not make a bigger mistake ~ last test 5 hours after the shot was 118 BG). I just was so worried about missing a dose, (everyone has been so animate about keeping the dose times as close as possible to the 12 hour window).... I was jut too anxious to hold off any longer. I will be more careful about fasting for 2 hours before the shot moving forward. The plan for tonight is no insulin and to check in the morning. I was told to only give the shot if the BG is 300 or higher. If it's lower I am to call for dosage instructions.
 
Hi Christine!!

Just a quick housekeeping note...once your emergency is over, please go ahead and take the 911 off....it makes our hearts skip a beat when we see it...and IF you were to run into an emergency situation again later in the same day, we wouldn't know if it was the first one or a new one!

Next, and please take this in the way it's intended...You're going to need to decide at some point whether you're going to listen to your vet, or to the people here. It's not that your vet is necessarily bad, but vets have very little education in feline diabetes (and see a lot more diabetic dogs) and just can't keep up with the latest treatments for every disease in every type of animal they treat. The people here do nothing BUT deal with feline diabetes and the complications that tend to come with it. They have many years of real life experience in what works and what doesn't and our number one rule is safety first!

Not giving insulin to a cat until they're in the 300's is inviting kidney disease. The renal threshold for cats is somewhere around 230...at that point, there's damage being done.

Also, the sooner you can get your kitty into normal numbers, the better their chances of going into remission. Keeping them in higher numbers longer than necessary just invites glucose toxicity, where their body becomes more and more used to living in those high numbers and it takes longer and higher doses to get them to respond.

The people here will never steer you wrong.....but trying to listen to your vet as well as the people here will drive you crazy!! We all realize it's a giant leap of faith to entrust your kitty's life with a bunch of crazy internet cat ladies, but I assure you, we'll do our best to help you get the best possible control of your cat with the best possible chance of getting them OTJ (Off The Juice!)

Glad to see you made it over here from the Facebook group too! Happy to have you in both!!
 
OK, how do I remove the 911?

Also, since I have your ear, I just did a BG test and got a 648 and 737 within a few minutes of each other! I think I need to give insulin now, rather than wait until the am like I was instructed. And yes, i do realize that what I find here will contradict my vet from time to time. I've been down this path before with other diseases and forums, but in my defense I tried to get info both places this morning and really got nowhere fast. In the end I went with my gut based on what I had read here, but still had to "punt"....
 
On the top right side (over beside the Title line) you'll see "Thread Tools"....there's a drop down menu for you to "Edit title".....click there and just remove the 911
 
If you can adjust your schedule, there's no reason you can't shoot tonight at 11:45pm......then you'd work your way back to your "chosen" schedule 15 minutes per cycle or 30 minutes per day

If you can shoot tomorrow at 11:30am/11:15pm, then 11:00am/10:45pm, etc.....I'd go ahead and shoot tonight

I've never seen a meter that went into the 700's!! Usually over 600 it just says "Hi"...but I know nothing about the Alpha Trak other than the cost of strips is outrageous!
 
Since you're home testing and have your spreadsheet set up, I'd like to invite you to come over to the Lantus/Levemir forum

The sticky's at the top have a lot of information

Each day, we start a new post (we call them "condo's") with the date, name and AMPS number...as the day goes on, you edit the title line with other test results.

In the body of the post you'd give the "WCR" (Whole Cat Report)....how your cat is feeling, any questions you might have, as well as the 5 P's report (Purring, preening, playing, peeing and pooping?)

You also want to copy/paste the link from your prior days post into the new post. That makes it easy for people to quickly go back and see what's been going on over the past few days

The most experienced eyes are there and we can help you get the most out of the message board!
 
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