Question about the Insulin Support Groups

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KJ & Alfred

KJ & Alfred

Member Since 2013
Guess this really a question about the board "culture" or protocols....

So 3 years ago when I was first here, Alfred was on Lantus. I can't tell you enough how much support and advice I received from the Lantus Group. I have credited this message board for not only his remission (after 3 months) but also saving his life, because the vet at the time, was really awful and I was not receiving good advice there.

So, now I'm back and the vet no longer prescribes Lantus due to cost so started us on ProZinc. I appreciate the advice I've received posting in this part of the board - Sue (& Oliver (GA)) has been especially helpful. But I wonder why this support group is so different. No daily conversations, (or "condos" I think they were called in LL), far less interaction. Is this just a product of fewer people being on PZI or is it that the difference with the protocols, or just the styles/habits of the people involved?

This second go round is much harder for both Alfred and I. I'm not sure why and I'm missing the more immediate support I felt while on Lantus. This is NOT a criticism in anyway, I'm just curious why the groups seem so different.
 
I can only speak from my experience as March 24th 2016 my kitty Fritz was prescribed Prozinc. I believe it is a smaller group and the members who helped me were great although I realize they have an outside life. I can't speak to the no daily conversations.

Is there a reason your vet can't write you a script for Lantus and you can either buy it local or from Canada?
 
June 15th I switched to Levemier . It is like you mentioned on the forum immediate support at all hours of the day or night..... It has been the best decision I made for Fritz. I do know that Prozinc is an in and out insulin and Fritz needed the depot carryover longer lasting insulin.
I hope you are able to receive the support you and Alfred need. Please consider the Lantus it got him into remission once.
 
I guess she might if pressed, but when I mentioned that I learned here about the better prices in Canada, she scoffed, saying that people don't have the assurance that they are truly getting what they think they are getting. She does not seem very supportive any time I mention things I learned here. Twice has told me not to test (first it was for the first week - saying that readings will be totally inaccurate as the body adjusts to the insulin, and second after she told me to increase from 1U to 2U - told me not to test for 3-4 days then test once preshot in the morning and once at +6). I just don't have a ton of confidence in her. But then again, like I mentioned before....I have kinda lost my mojo with this second go-round. It all just feels HARDER! :(
 
ACK! So many questions..... I just had a look at your spreadsheet and saw the note about your glucose meter calibrated for feline blood. Is there are chart somewhere comparing that to the meters for human blood? I'm using an Accu-Check. Also, I realized you must be using a newer template for the spreadsheet (I've never seen the light green color for #s <68). The numbers on the template and the corresponding color formatting....are those applicable regardless of type of meter used?

Geez, I feel like a newbie all over again.
 
KJ & Alfred said:
I guess she might if pressed, but when I mentioned that I learned here about the better prices in Canada, she scoffed, saying that people don't have the assurance that they are truly getting what they think they are getting. She does not seem very supportive any time I mention things I learned here. Twice has told me not to test (first it was for the first week - saying that readings will be totally inaccurate as the body adjusts to the insulin, and second after she told me to increase from 1U to 2U - told me not to test for 3-4 days then test once preshot in the morning and once at +6). I just don't have a ton of confidence in her. But then again, like I mentioned before....I have kinda lost my mojo with this second go-round. It all just feels HARDER! :(
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I am sorry to hear about your vet, it is common to not get the support or for the vets to even help you manage FD. I have been to 4 vets since Feb 11,2016. You pretty much have to take the care and treatment of fD yourself. There is so much help on the L&L forum. Not once have I felt alone with the care of Fritz. In fact I couldn't have come this far without them.....
If it were me I'd either find a vet who will work with you or mention to your current vet I understand how you feel BUT I the Lantus worked the first time and you want to go back to what you know works for Alfred after all it's his health that she should be concerned about.
The vet that did the blood work for Fritz was so rude to me and refused to show me how to test or even educate me about how to treat Fritz. She said go home with the pen dial the units shoot twice a day and come back on a month. My gut said no way I have no idea what that insulin doing to his GB.So I got the insulin went home and googled as much as I could and came across this website. It has saved my kitties life.
Sorry to sound rude but the vets can't accept that you might know more than them. I just got pushier not rude but I knew my kitties care depended upon me.....
If your not happy with her and can't get the results you need call around and find one that will at least prescribe the insulin that worked for Alfred why waste your $ time and Alfred's time on insulin that might not work.
Or you can keep him on Prozinc and see if it works.
You didn't mention if he's on Prozinc or not yet? I can tell you the L&L forum is much more active and you will receive the support you need.....
 
KJ & Alfred said:
ACK! So many questions..... I just had a look at your spreadsheet and saw the note about your glucose meter calibrated for feline blood. Is there are chart somewhere comparing that to the meters for human blood? I'm using an Accu-Check. Also, I realized you must be using a newer template for the spreadsheet (I've never seen the light green color for #s <68). The numbers on the template and the corresponding color formatting....are those applicable regardless of type of meter used?

Geez, I feel like a newbie all over again.
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It's ok after Alfred went into remission all that stuff you learned goes. You'll catch on real quick.
I am using the AT2 pet meter.
Possibly the pet template is a bit different.
I can't help you with the human one, but many use the human one.
Do you already have a SS set up from before?
I use Lev because Fritz required a larger dose of insulin and the Lantus stings at higher doses.
Marje is the master at SS and she would more than willing to help you if you'd like
 
DebG said:
I am sorry to hear about your vet, it is common to not get the support or for the vets to even help you manage FD. I have been to 4 vets since Feb 11,2016. You pretty much have to take the care and treatment of fD yourself. There is so much help on the L&L forum. Not once have I felt alone with the care of Fritz. In fact I couldn't have come this far without them.....
If it were me I'd either find a vet who will work with you or mention to your current vet I understand how you feel BUT I the Lantus worked the first time and you want to go back to what you know works for Alfred after all it's his health that she should be concerned about.
The vet that did the blood work for Fritz was so rude to me and refused to show me how to test or even educate me about how to treat Fritz. She said go home with the pen dial the units shoot twice a day and come back on a month. My gut said no way I have no idea what that insulin doing to his GB.So I got the insulin went home and googled as much as I could and came across this website. It has saved my kitties life.
Sorry to sound rude but the vets can't accept that you might know more than them. I just got pushier not rude but I knew my kitties care depended upon me.....
If your not happy with her and can't get the results you need call around and find one that will at least prescribe the insulin that worked for Alfred why waste your $ time and Alfred's time on insulin that might not work.
Or you can keep him on Prozinc and see if it works.
You didn't mention if he's on Prozinc or not yet? I can tell you the L&L forum is much more active and you will receive the support you need.....
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Did you test the first time Alfred was on Lantus? It is so important if you saw Fritz yesterday SS if I had not been testing he would of gone Hypo and possibly died. He hit 44 on the At2 and anything below 52 you take them to ER. I would never and I say never ever inject insulin without testing. I am sorry but the vets really don't know Feline Diabetes. It's not different than injecting a human they test before each shot and often through the day till they learn how their bodies react to the insulin.
I use the vets for the scripts and to treat other issues not for his Diabetes. Although we all need the vets .
 
Yes, I have a spreadsheet....isn't it linked in my signature. Yes, Alfred is on ProZinc. It's been two weeks. I totally understand that L/L board is much more active - I was there three years ago when we used Lantus the first time.

And sadly, I don't have any options on vets. I live in a small town and there is only one vet clinic. :( I used to drive to the next closest one (nearly 80 miles away) with my other cat (different story) but it's so stressful to drive, see the vet, then drive back. I figured that stress isn't really helping. I was able with that vet at least to do some stuff over the phone, but she has retired.
 
DebG said:
Did you test the first time Alfred was on Lantus? It is so important if you saw Fritz yesterday SS if I had not been testing he would of gone Hypo and possibly died. He hit 44 on the At2 and anything below 52 you take them to ER. I would never and I say never ever inject insulin without testing. I am sorry but the vets really don't know Feline Diabetes. It's not different than injecting a human they test before each shot and often through the day till they learn how their bodies react to the insulin.
I use the vets for the scripts and to treat other issues not for his Diabetes. Although we all need the vets .
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Yes, my spreadsheet is in my sig. Two tabs - one for 2013 (Lantus) and new one for 2016 (ProZinc). I tested then - that's clearly why I got so much help from the Lantus group and I am testing now.
 
I peeked at your SS. Have you been able to get help from Sue or Rachel? It seemed to me they weren't online as much as I needed them. Being new and not knowing what to do. I wished I would have had access to them more often. I do know that Prozinc being an in & out insulin it's easier to play with the dosing. I don't feel comfortable helping with dosing.
If you have general questions you probably remember from before that you will get help sooner if you post in the health forum as far as dosing Sue & Rachel.
If you really want him on Lantus might be worth a phone call to see if she will just write the script. Possibly Prozinc will work only time will tell.
Good luck!!! Hoping things work out for you both....:bighug::bighug::bighug::):cat:
 
I don't think I've ever interacted with Rachel, but as mentioned in my original post, Sue has been kind and helpful. I know it isn't easy to give dosing advice until we have some data on the spreadsheet, but I think I'm reaching that point. I don't think I've even tried posting in the ProZinc group for two reasons 1) I read repeatedly that quicker response is usually found in the Health Forum - hence my post here today and 2) the ProZinc forum says its better for "newbies" to post elsewhere at first and that the support group is for more experienced users. While I am not new to FD, I am new to ProZinc.

I just feel really desperate. I hate my vet. I don't feel supported and I really need support. Appreciate your kindness in replying.
 
There are definitely fewer people on the ProZinc forum than the Lantus forums. Fewer people use ProZinc. If you want to start posting daily on ProZinc, you will definitely get replies, maybe just not immediately. If you need emergency help, it is best to post on Health. I try to monitor both forums but it is easier for me to find threads on the ProInc forum because everyone there is using ProZinc. In Health, sometimes I don't know what insulin someone is using till I check the signature.

As far as your apreadsheet, KJ, you seem to be trying to find a good dose, which is fine. One of the nice things about ProZinc is that you can use the method that works best for your cat. Some people stay with a dose for several cycles. Some people use a sliding scale, giving more or less insulin depending on the preshot and nadir numbers. Alfred did seem to be a little higher on one unit. The 1.25 may or may not have been a good choice - without nadir numbers, you can't really be sure. I would be careful about raising the dose when you can be around to catch the nadir the first cycle you raise. Have you gotten any midcycle numbers today for the 1.5?
 
I'm sorry if you feel like you're not getting enough support on the ProZinc forum. It is a small group and most just post when they have a question. @Sue and Oliver (GA) and @Rachel are pretty much running it by themselves right now and are doing a great job. Posting in health can sometimes get you answers quicker, but if you tag Sue and Rachel, they will chime in as soon as they can. A few of us that used ProZinc try to keep an eye out too. I know how you feel, I have no vet right now because my previous vet was an a** so I've relied on the knowledge of this board to treat my cat. we are all a family here and support each other regardless of what insulin you use. Whenever you need help or just some handholding, post and we will answer!
 
Hi Alfred's bean. Sorry you find yourself here again with Alfred. Do you have any idea what took Alfred out of remission? Infection, bad tooth? Just wondering....

As far as the ProZinc forum and the L&L forum being different, yes the ProZinc family is very small. It seems like so many more cats are on Lantus or Lev. My cat started off on ProZinc and was on for 6 months when we made the switch. Our decision to switch to Lantus was because of Bubba being a late nadir cat and I was able to dose him more aggressively and shoot lower numbers with Lantus than I could on ProZinc. When we switched in December, I cried for days because the ProZinc people were my family. ( They still are and I come visit often) Since we left, the amount of people are even smaller due to switching insulin or people's cat's going into remission and a few unfortunately have passed.

The people in both forums are awesome and knowledgeable about each insulin and the only real difference is that in L & L there are people from all over the world so someone is always around to assist. ProZinc being so much smaller was hard to get an immediate response sometimes depending on what time zone you are in. But, someone always got back to me.

Good luck with Prozinc and like the others have said, post in Health with a ? mark if you need immediate assistance and no one in ProZinc is available. We will all try to keep an eye out for you.
 
Thank you so very much @Sue and Oliver (GA), @Carol & Murphy, @Sharon14 and @Bobbie And Bubba . (I didn't realize you could tag people in threads...so thanks for that too.)

I really hope I am not coming across as ungrateful or not cognizant that we all have lives outside of FDMB. I was just really missing that immediate support I got the first time around in L&L. I appreciate your thoughts and understand that there are just fewer people using ProZinc and that makes sense. I am really struggling with how much support I feel like I need, even though this should be "like riding a bike". Even this morning - I could just NOT get the BG testing right. And I used to feel like I could (and nearly did) do it in my sleep. ;) I got it, but everything just feels harder this time around.

And I will make an effort to collect more nadir numbers for Alfred. Off to go do a check now.
 
Don't worry it will definitely come back - you'll get your groove back
I know how stressful it is at first, and it probably doesn't matter if it is your first time or 20th
It's too bad there aren't any "tele-vet" like "tele- medicine" - actually maybe there are - I wonder

With Prozinc, it is really very important to get both the preshots and the nadir
See you on the Prozinc forum - good luck with the test!!
 
A lot of the basic will come back to you but as far as the insulin there is a big difference with ProZinc compared to Lantus. With Lantus you dosed in regard to the nadir considering the pre shot number and now with ProZinc you will be dosing by the pre shot number and be considering the nadir. That will take a bit to get used to at least it did when I went to Lantus, I had to get rid of my Prozinc brain. :confused:

Keep asking questions if you need clarification about ProZinc. :cat:
 
Hi,
The group is indeed smaller but I had great support and when I needed advice I would put a ? In my thread and tag people who I knew could help me. Usually I would get response in a couple of minutes.
But you can also tag (the people above) and also me if you have any questions. I'm in the Netherlands so I have a different timezone, what can be helpfull! if you are in the middle of the night or something like that, it's daytime for me, so I can assist you if needed, just tag me (I get an alert on my phone) but I think the reason why prozinc is a smaller and less responsive topic, is because there is not really a TR protocol for it. It's easier to 'play' with Prozinc then Lantus.

Well hope this helps you a little. Although it seems quite in the prozinc topic, it's not! We are all here to help and support you and your beautiful kitty:bighug:
 
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Ruby&Baco said:
Hi,
The group is indeed smaller but I had great support and when I needed advice I would put a ? In my thread and tag people who I knew could help me. Usually I would get response in a couple of minutes.
But you can also tag (the people above) and also me if you have any questions. I'm in the Netherlands so I have a different timezone, what can be helpfull! if you are in the middle of the night or something like that, it's daytime for me, so I can assist you if needed, just tag me (I get an alert on my phone) but I think the reason why prozinc is a smaller and less responsive topic, is because there is not really a TR protocol for it. It's easier to 'play' with Prozinc then Lantus.

Well hope this helps you a little. Although it seems quite in the prozinc topic, it's not! We are all here to help and support you ans your beautiful kitty:bighug:
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Hey Ruby!!
 
Hey Bobbie, sorry I wasn't around for I think 3/4 days (and I will not now because i'm going to bed/sleep now) but I've scheduled tomorrow night an all night forum night! I've been so busy with the new job! Love it though but still a lot of info.
We will talk tomorrow evening (your tomorrow morning) okay?? :bighug::kiss:

Sorry for hijacking the topic! Didn't mean too:woot:
 
I'm so sorry that you've felt you don't have the support you need! The Prozinc forum is a pretty small group. I know when my little girl was on it, we posted daily condos with the numbers. Not a whole lot of folks do that, anymore.

Sue is pretty amazing, and has always been there for all of us. I try to jump in and help out, but I am mostly only around super early morning and evenings. I used to check in during work, but lately it hasn't been possible.

We definitely want you to feel that you have the support needed. I'll keep an eye out for your posts and pop in whenever I can! For what it's worth, sometimes when I see that Sue has already answered something, I don't chime in. I probably should, but I got out of the habit awhile back when we had a fairly large number of folks needing help. :)
 
Gosh, I feel awful....because everyone has always been so kind and helpful....I didn't want to sound like I wasn't getting the support I need, I really was just trying to understand the different dynamics of the groups. Really so I can set my expectations accordingly or adjust (post in the main health forum, tag people, use the ? icon....). I'm just re-learning the ropes over here.

And @Rachel - you shouldn't feel bad about not chiming in after you think the advice has already been given. I recognize we ALL have lots going on outside of worrying about our (and each other's!) cats. ;)

Feeling the love (AND SUPPORT) people,
Really.
 
Aw, KJ , don't feel bad! We DO want to know how you feel. How else can we give you what you need??

I'd say the best practice for Prozinc is to tag someone when you need something. I hate to say that because I do check every post, but a tag is usually a good way to grab our attention that you need something. Other than that, if you plan to post regularly, let us know roughly what time (and time zone!) you're around. I used to have a small group of folks that posted early in the morning...and I knew roughly when they'd post so I could know when to check in before work.

We do work differently than L and I can only imagine how tough it would be to switch to us! Please don't feel bad about asking questions or explaining how you feel...it helps us! :) After all, how do you learn how it works and how do we learn what you need if we don't all interact?
 
I am in Alaska. I tend to post in the morning-mid morning, but my vet has just instructed me to stay at 1U and keep collecting data (especially those mid-cycle) numbers, so I probably won't need as much day-to-day as I thought when I thought there was more option for tight regulation with him. Seems as though he is reacting quickly to the insulin and that there may still be other underlying issues to tend to to get him to a point of regulation. Though, naive as it may be, I'm going to hold out hope for a second remission. :)
 
I'm another Prozinc user and I just found your thread. I looked at your SS and I think the dose may be too high. It looks to me like his high preshots may be a bounce from a low nadir. @Sue and Oliver (GA) or @Rachel what do you think?
 
AbyResq said:
I'm another Prozinc user and I just found your thread. I looked at your SS and I think the dose may be too high. It looks to me like his high preshots may be a bounce from a low nadir. @Sue and Oliver (GA) or @Rachel what do you think?
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My vet recommended to drop back to 1U and stay there awhile, paying closer attention to the nadir....so I think you're probably right. Unless you think 1U is too high? I just never got 400s the first time around so I assumed that meant we weren't giving enough insulin...and because after the first curve, the vet recommended increasing from 1 to 2U. My attempts the last few days were to increase but not too much.

Oh and I'm in Homer, Alaska...a small town in Southcentral AK. :) Do let me know if any of you ever need trip planning advice.
 
Hello KJ,

just wanted you to know that even tho' it is called the lantus /levemir forum, there have been other insulin users who come post there
and everyone is welcome.....
They will just ask that you put what insulin you are using in your signature.... bold type so it catches the eye.....
because some might not catch it .... no matter how big it is... (i've done that)

If you want to switch to lantus, I have a fairly new bottle of it you can have. I would just ask you to pay the shipping charges
and i will ship any way you want.... it's a vial.
I'm not trying to take you away from the other prozinc people finding your condo.....
I was just listening to what you expressed above.....
 
@rhiannon and shadow (GA) That is a very kind offer and I appreciate it very much. I'll let you pass the lantus vial on to someone in greater need. I think I'll give the ProZinc a chance a bit longer, and I am feeling much better now about seeking advice specific to it, in different parts of the message board. :)

I remember you from my last time here in 2013 and I'm sorry to see that Shadow is not with you anymore. RIP Kitty. cat_wings>o
 
Hi KJ how are you feeling about the pmps? Let's see what Sue and Rachel say, but I got used to 0.25 changes in doses. Do you have syringes with half unit markings?
 
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