Connie & Em(GA)
Member Since 2011
I've been reading up on Lantus protocols, and I don't see anything about getting off insulin. It is probably a pipe dream with this kitty, but is there written protocol about remission and getting off insulin?
question about remission
- Thread starter Connie & Em(GA)
- Start date
- Status
Connie & Em(GA) said:
I am not sure what you mean by written. I think there's something around about testing at amps and pmps but not giving insulin, then after 14days of no insulin but good BG numbers, you can say that your cat is OTJ or in remision.
As for a pipe dream, how will you know unless you try. Often, by changing foods, and then a short time on insulin to give the pancreas time to heal, cats do become able to go without insulin.
Marcy & Klinger (GA)
Member Since 2010
This page hasn't been updated in a few years, but is this kind of what you're looking for? http://binkyspage.tripod.com/SLGS.html
Tilly
Phase 5: Remission
14 days without insulin and normal blood glucose values. Most remission cats are able to stay in the normal range all of the time (50 to 80 mg/dl), although there are a few cases of sporadic higher and lower BGs. Don't stop feeding low-carb and try to avoid cortisone if possible. Test the cat's BGs once per month.
Approximately 25% cats that achieved remission using this protocol relapsed and required insulin again (frequent causes are hyperthyroidism or bouts of pancreatitis). Therefore, it is important to keep your diabetes kit up-to-date. Then you can react immediately by giving insulin and home testing. Importantly, the sooner you react to a relapse (i.e. preventing hyperglycemia and initiating other necessary veterinary treatment), the more likely a second remission will become.
The longer a cat has had diabetes, the less likely it will go into remission. Many long-term diabetics get stuck in Phase 3 or 4. Yet there is a benefit of using this method for such a cat as well: keeping the cat's BG levels as normal as possible is much healthier for it long term. Insulin requirements will often decrease to very low levels too.
Phase 5: Remission
14 days without insulin and normal blood glucose values. Most remission cats are able to stay in the normal range all of the time (50 to 80 mg/dl), although there are a few cases of sporadic higher and lower BGs. Don't stop feeding low-carb and try to avoid cortisone if possible. Test the cat's BGs once per month.
Approximately 25% cats that achieved remission using this protocol relapsed and required insulin again (frequent causes are hyperthyroidism or bouts of pancreatitis). Therefore, it is important to keep your diabetes kit up-to-date. Then you can react immediately by giving insulin and home testing. Importantly, the sooner you react to a relapse (i.e. preventing hyperglycemia and initiating other necessary veterinary treatment), the more likely a second remission will become.
The longer a cat has had diabetes, the less likely it will go into remission. Many long-term diabetics get stuck in Phase 3 or 4. Yet there is a benefit of using this method for such a cat as well: keeping the cat's BG levels as normal as possible is much healthier for it long term. Insulin requirements will often decrease to very low levels too.
Connie & Em(GA)
Member Since 2011
I say pipe dream because I've read her medical history and I figure better to not hope too hard - although with the numbers she has been giving me already .... *knocks wood*
I went through remission with several other cats, but they were on Humulin or on PZI. I was reading on Lantus and there was talk of giving injections when they are under 100... Lantus is such a different insulin then I'm used to that I'm a little (ok a lot) intimidated by it.
I went through remission with several other cats, but they were on Humulin or on PZI. I was reading on Lantus and there was talk of giving injections when they are under 100... Lantus is such a different insulin then I'm used to that I'm a little (ok a lot) intimidated by it.
MommaOfMuse
Member Since 2010
Connie,
Don't be intimated by Lantus, first of all cats canand do go into remission on Lantus that aren't given insulin under 100, my Maxwell is living proof of that.
From what I have seen even with those that do have to shoot low to stay low well that is what the board is for so we can help you figure out if you need to give insulin and at was dose is safe to give. But it is also one of those every cat is different kind of things, if they are going to go OTJ they are going to do it their own way...Some are going to need to be weaned off before they can hold normal numbers on their own, some are going to need to be microdosed, some are going to get down to a certain dose like Sara's Duncan and just go off (anti-jinx). And well others always get insulin only the cat's pancreas and the cat know how it happens. That is why we have the 14 day trial, if they don't pass the trial, you just go back and try again.
Do I think Musette is ever going to go OTJ...probably not because like you I've seen her medical history, but that doesn't mean I'm not going to strive for it for her, and give her the best possible chance at it. If she does, she does, but if she lives out her days as a well-regulated healthy and happy diabetic cat then that is fine by me too.
Mel, Maxwell, Musette & The Fur Gang
Don't be intimated by Lantus, first of all cats canand do go into remission on Lantus that aren't given insulin under 100, my Maxwell is living proof of that.
From what I have seen even with those that do have to shoot low to stay low well that is what the board is for so we can help you figure out if you need to give insulin and at was dose is safe to give. But it is also one of those every cat is different kind of things, if they are going to go OTJ they are going to do it their own way...Some are going to need to be weaned off before they can hold normal numbers on their own, some are going to need to be microdosed, some are going to get down to a certain dose like Sara's Duncan and just go off (anti-jinx). And well others always get insulin only the cat's pancreas and the cat know how it happens. That is why we have the 14 day trial, if they don't pass the trial, you just go back and try again.
Do I think Musette is ever going to go OTJ...probably not because like you I've seen her medical history, but that doesn't mean I'm not going to strive for it for her, and give her the best possible chance at it. If she does, she does, but if she lives out her days as a well-regulated healthy and happy diabetic cat then that is fine by me too.
Mel, Maxwell, Musette & The Fur Gang
SaraM2261
Member Since 2011
The cat will show you if she/he is going off of it. Each cycle on insulin will start to get lower and lower.
However I did see one kitty's SS where she had been in the blues and greens on between 1 and .25 for a very long time and was not going OTJ. Her dose was just lower, and easy to control, but she needed it still. You can check out Duncan's SS and see that each week he was a bit lower and I hate shooting low numbers as well. My personal number was around 120 when I would get really nervous, especially at night when I thought I would sleep through checking him and he would go hypo. Also you will see a pattern in her cycles just like on the other insulins and be able to predict (possibly) what she will do. Duncan is not a puker, he doesn't typically dive way low fast during a cycle but rather gradually go low and stay low right wherever that is the whole cycle. So that was more reassuring to shoot lower numbers. You have to find your own comfort zone with such things. (That's why I'm on the Relaxed Lantus too. I need balance and my own comfort zone. I can't just follow that protocol with out tweaking it for my own cat's needs.)
Don't put too much pressure on yourself here at the start, just gather data and see what she's telling you.
I think it's wonderful that you took her in. She's lucky to have a bean like you to love her right now.
PS: spread sheets rock, and you will get a lot better advice and you will feel better and have more data as well. Just saying.
However I did see one kitty's SS where she had been in the blues and greens on between 1 and .25 for a very long time and was not going OTJ. Her dose was just lower, and easy to control, but she needed it still. You can check out Duncan's SS and see that each week he was a bit lower and I hate shooting low numbers as well. My personal number was around 120 when I would get really nervous, especially at night when I thought I would sleep through checking him and he would go hypo. Also you will see a pattern in her cycles just like on the other insulins and be able to predict (possibly) what she will do. Duncan is not a puker, he doesn't typically dive way low fast during a cycle but rather gradually go low and stay low right wherever that is the whole cycle. So that was more reassuring to shoot lower numbers. You have to find your own comfort zone with such things. (That's why I'm on the Relaxed Lantus too. I need balance and my own comfort zone. I can't just follow that protocol with out tweaking it for my own cat's needs.)
Don't put too much pressure on yourself here at the start, just gather data and see what she's telling you.
I think it's wonderful that you took her in. She's lucky to have a bean like you to love her right now.
PS: spread sheets rock, and you will get a lot better advice and you will feel better and have more data as well. Just saying.
- Status