Question About My Tortie, Ketchie, With Tumor

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Jean and Charcoal

Jean and Charcoal

Member Since 2009
Hi Everyone,

I have not been posting much lately, but have belonged to this site since 2006 when I had Charcoal and Rudder with diabetes. They are both gone since 2009, but Rudder's sister, Ketchie is the last of the family that was born in my bathroom on August 1, 1995.

Ketchie has a lot of different problems, mainly cardiomyopathy, eye trouble, hyperesthesia, Interstitial Cystitis, lack of appetite (I have been giving her slivers of Mirtazapine for quite some time now to try to keep her eating), chronic renal failure, and then in May this year I found a lump on the top of her back near her tail about a half inch across. It was moveable in her skin, but I took her to my vet's to see what he thought.

He could barely aspirate anything, so he asked me then if I wanted to have him do surgery, but with all of Ketchie's problems, I knew that it would make it harder for her to recover or even survive the surgery.

She was seen a few weeks ago by my other vet (the wife of the first vet) and she weighed her (Ketchie is now about 9 pounds and some change; used to be 13 pounds at her best weight) and gave her some fluids, and trimmed her nails. She said she did not think it wise to do a lung x-ray, because if this is a vaccine related sarcoma, that is where it will travel to, and since she still is hanging in there, she recommended just doing palliative treatment.

Here is my question: The tumor is now almost 2 inches across with two nodules (about one fourth of an inch each) lying alongside of it. It is still moveable in her skin, but has anyone here ever had a cat with a sarcoma that has busted open? This is really worrying me, and yet Ketchie seems to still be doing 'okay', even with all her health issues.

Am I being remiss by keeping her going with a tumor that is most likely cancer? It makes it harder for me because it is on the outside, and I know that it will likely end her life. She is 17, and the oldest cat I have ever had, and I think because she talks to me a lot and lies on me at night on her "Ketchie blanket I crocheted for her many years ago", that I don't have the heart to put her down yet, unless I truly see her suffering, but cats hide pain so well, that's for sure.

If anyone has had a cat with vaccine related sarcoma, please tell me about your experiences, or PM a message to me. This is making me so sad to watch the best cat I have ever had, leave me so slowly.

KetchieonApril32012013.jpg


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Thanks for any advice or information about this. Trouble is, that she looks so well for her age, and if she looked scrappy, I would be more inclined to make the last dreaded choice most all of us have had to make with our furbabies. I lost five cats in 6 months in 2009. That whole year was so horrible, and yet, now, why is it harder to lose my sweet tortie girl who has outlived any of my other cats? UGH....

Sincerely,
Jean and Charcoal (GA) cat_pet_icon
 
No real advice Just tons of prayers for your beautiful Ketchie that she continues to hang in there with you my friend. And a bunch of hugs for you. By the way Ketchie looks great for her age, I don't think I would be mulling over her going anywhere either right now, and it could always just be B9 lumps.

Mel, Maxwell, Autumn & The Fur Gang
 
Thanks, Mel! I know I am a worry wart, so your comment is very much appreciated along with your prayers.

My daughter even asked her vet about Ketchie, and she said "Let the poor little old lady live out her life in dignity, and I don't recommend surgery with all her health issues."

Love your new furbaby, Mel! Beautiful name too!
 
No advice, just reading about Ketchie and loving that you are so loving to her.

Praying for it to be no health risk for her with everything else she has going on.
 
Jean and Charcoal said:
... but has anyone here ever had a cat with a sarcoma that has busted open?
Click to expand...

Oh, (((Jean))),

Yes, I have. It was 15 years ago. The cat's name was Ambrose and he was my absolute soulmate.

He'd developed a cough that just got worse and worse. When we had a good look at him we found he was bleeding, just a little, from his belly, and the flesh looked sort of lumpy and raw. So we took him to the vet... It transpired that he had a mammary tumour that had ruptured. That tumour alone wasn't the cause of his death. He was coughing because the cancer had spread to his lungs.

A couple of years later another of our cats (our very first cat, actually, called Polly) had a tumour on her neck. Again, that wasn't the cause of her death. But the cancer spread to her liver.

If the lump on Ketchie is cancer, and if it is a primary, then she may still have some more quality time ahead of her. But it may not be cancer at all!

Ultimately, I think it is 'quality of life' that is important. Is Ketchie happy? Does she still find joy in life?

I've lost 4 cats to cancer. In each of those cases they seemed to motor along just fine, still enjoying life, until their illness reached a certain 'tipping point'. That change was quite easy to spot (after Ambrose, anyway. I was in denial about him...). They quite suddenly became just 'miserable'. And when that time came the decision to end their lives humanely became a decision that was not too hard to make: The cats seemed to make the decision for us. It was as though they told us that they'd 'had enough' and it was time to go.

My profound hope is that you and Ketchie still have some good times ahead of you.

All good wishes to you both,

Elizabeth
 
Thank you hmjohnston for your kind words.

To Elizabeth,

This is the information I was seeking, from one who has been 'through' this rocky road. You have sure had a lot to deal with, but like you say, it is best to look for quality of life for them, and they will let us know when it is time to let go.

I have lost so many of my cats to cancer, but usually it has always been 'internal'.

Today I did not get on here earlier than now, because I was resting on my sofa, and Ketchie was the one that made me take a rest. She 'talks' to me, and kept tapping me with her paw, till I finally laid down and she jumped on top of her blanket that was on my lap, and she and I both took a snooze. So, she is still having a fairly good quality of life, although if I did not give her the Mirtazapine, she does not eat too well.

Thanks so much for your words of 'wisdom' and the sadness that you had to experience, but you have helped me to understand that I need to not obsess each day about whether this is the 'end' or not. I know my family, although I live alone with my cats, all think I am whacky for keeping her going, but then I am sure we all have relatives and friends who think 'animal lovers' are rather on the 'weird' side.

Take care and thanks again, Elizabeth!
Hugs,
Jean and Charcoal (GA) cat_pet_icon
 
Just saying "hello Jean" from across the planet!

Just adding my comforting thoughts and prayers - I have no experience except that I can identify with what Elizabeth said. When a cat becomes "miserable" and the enjoyment has largely gone from their lives, I think that's the time to listen and take action, desperately sad though it is.

But it sounds like your Ketchie still has a good enough quality of life, thanks to all the help you are giving her in so many ways, and your conscientous monitoring of her behaviour.
She sounds very special. It's lovely to hold a conversation with a kitty cat and be talked to. She lets you know what she wants you to do! "Come and lie down with me!! NOW".

Many blessings to you and all your furbabes!
 
No personal experience but I know some cats can get lipomas just like dogs, that are nothing.

We had a shelter cat many years ago, she was one of my favorites and had been there a long time. She had a small lump where you describe Ketchies is, and the vets drained it but didnt think it was anything. It came back, and was drained again.. and she finally got adopted and the people brought her back a few days later, heartbroken because their vet said it was cancer. It was in fact cancer and she did "fospice" in a staff persons office. It did break open when it got big.

Sending many cyber hugs to you (((((((((((((((((((((((JEAN and KETCHIE)))))))))))))))))))
 
Thank you Allie, and Lisa!

If this tumor were just perfectly round, I would not feel so bad about it, but it is shaped round, with two nodules along the side that are small and round. I will have to take some pictures of it if I can, tomorrow. Her fur is really sticking out from it. Moreso than in the beginning.

I just don't want this thing to rupture, especially if I am not home. I have some tests I have to go to the hospital for in a few weeks, and I guess that is why I am more nervous about this situation.

Thanks for all thoughts and prayers!

Hugs,
Jean and Charcoal (GA) cat_pet_icon
 
Ketchie is sure beautiful, Jean. All that red fur is so pretty.

I would second the plan for waiting this out and letting her tell you if it begins to bother her. If she is still getting around, enjoying cuddles and naps, eating ok (even with meds) than I would let it go. You are right that surgery would be difficult or impossible for her to tolerate.

I have also lost 4 cats to cancer (one was very old) and they all manage to compensate for some period of time, then they start to go down hill. It does not sound like she is going down hill. And it might be a lipoma. It may never spread, but if it does you will see symptoms and at that point you can make a decision.

Who will be taking care of her while you are in the hospital for tests? I would just make sure that person can handle the situation if the tumor does rupture, and won't totally freak out about it. I doubt that it would cause her much pain, but it could be mess. I would just talk about it with the sitter. I don't know how likely that is to happen though.

Sending prayers her way that she has much more time to spend with you. Enjoy her while you have her. We just never know how long we have with them.
 
Hi Sheila,

Thanks for your encouraging words. Right now, Ketchie is starting again with a runny nose and I may need to put her on Baytril as I had to in the Springtime, when she developed an infection in her nasal and sinus area.

I will hopefully just be in and out of the hospital in less than a few hours, but one never knows when getting tested for possible cancer. I had a double mastectomy last year due to breast cancer, and I am just getting a colonoscopy done. My mother died from colon cancer, and my two brothers and older sister have all had pre-cancerous polyps removed. So, my oncology doctor wants me to get this done. yuck....

I will try to line up a petsitter to be on hand, just in case, though, for when I have this done.

Thanks for your advice and prayers!
Hugs,
Jean and Charcoal (GA) cat_pet_icon
 
Thank you, Jeanne. You are always so steadfast and faithful in praying for so many beans and furbabies. You have a wonderful and giving heart. Thanks again!

Hugs,
Jean and Charcoal (GA) cat_pet_icon
 
Lipomas are freely moveable, whereas cancers tend to anchor to things like skin or bone. Lipomas also feel a bit rubbery.

The prep for colonoscopy is what most folks find unpleasant. If you aim for a low fiber diet the few days prior, it makes it easier. (less to move out). Also, I found that dividing the amount of liquid to be drunk into batches worked better for me despite the instructions to drink it all at once.

The procedure isn't that bad. I watched most of my last one as my blood pressure dropped like a rock and they couldn't give more of the sedative drugs. I had told them I was a lightweight for the drugs and they probably gave it too fast for me to adjust. It was just fine that way - not uncomfortable at all! Any small polyps will be snipped off at that time. If they find any polyps, they'll want to repeat the colonoscopy about every 3 years, rather than every 10.
 
((Jean)) will be thinking of you during your procedure and pray that everything turns out great. As for your sweet Ketchie, I will keep her in my thoughts and prayers as well. Since she is not related to Woody(is she?) the genetic link to VAS is out. Having had Remi, who had VAS, I would say the tumor was slightly moveable, but the vets always say that it does not cause them pain(if that helps). Not sure if you ever joined the yahoo VAS group, but there is a file folder on there about how to treat a tumor that opens. I hope she is with you for a long time still. Keep us posted.
 
Thanks for the good info BJM! I, myself, have had a lipoma in my front left shoulder that is about the size of a golfball, for many years. It does feel rubbery, and moves around some. I can grab Ketchie's lump and move it at least an inch or so in her skin, but it is anchored into her skin, but I had first worried that it was an osteosarcoma, but the vets seem to think fibrosarcoma.

Ketchie is not related to Woodee, who did have the fibrosarcoma. His was on his side near the back and it felt like a ROCK. It did not move either. It will be five years on December 13 this year since his surgery. The vet told me to only expect a year of survival for Woodee, after his surgery, and he was amazed to see him recently when I had him to the vet's for an abscess under his chin. He said "Boy, I did a pretty good job, didn't I?" with a big smile. He was so happy that Woodee is doing well thus far.

About the colonoscopy, my biggest worry is that they tried to do one 13 years ago, and could only get up the left side, due to adhesions I have in my abdomen from the complete hysterectomy I had in 1993. So, the doctor stopped when he could not get past that turn. Thanks for the advice about how to drink that crummy stuff, BJM. I had the small bottle back in 1999, and they have since removed that from the market. I will be stuck with the Golytely jug..... ugh....

Oh, I did have a PET/CT Scan last June, 2011, though, and nothing showed up anywhere in my body. So, I think if I had a large mass anywhere, it might have shown up then.

I do belong to the VAS on the Yahoo groups, so I will have to go visit that group, as I have not in a very long time. Thanks, for reminding me, Jill.

Thank you all for replying to my post here! And for all your kind words and thoughts and prayers.

Hugs,
Jean and Charcoal (GA) cat_pet_icon
 
Thanks for the suggestion about the VAS Yahoo Group. I had almost forgotten about that. I posted there, and have gotten some good suggestions and encouragement, and also they do have the links about what to do if the tumor should bust open. I think, at that point, I will not keep Ketchie going, not for long at least.

Thank you all for your thoughts and prayers.

Jean and Charcoal (GA)
 
Something like Miralax, used in small (maybe half or quarter) doses earlier in the week may help too - again, less to move out the night before, plus it draws water into the intestinal tract, which makes any matter less hard so that when it does move, it is less likely to be uncomfortable.
 
Thanks, BJM for the advice. I will start trying the Miralax in small amounts to make sure I am not allergic to it. I give it to two of my cats everyday, just little bits, to try to keep them moving. I know that the stuff they use now, Golytely, and Movieprep and Suprep, are all the same type of drug as Miralax. Which one did you have to use? I have to use it plain due to my being allergic to so many flavors and foods, and fruits, etc.

Jean and Charcoal (GA)
 
I'm not much help, but a few things I've learned lately.
We observe the downhill slide so gradually, we don't really ever believe the cat is suffering, plus they hide it so well. But, and a vet backed me up on this, the day they won't eat, the red flag is seen. I doubt if your baby could withstand any surgery and I just wouldn't put her thru it.

I pray for some guidance for you. I have called on St, Francis myself a lot lately, and he's not steered me wrong yet. Just Saturday, he somehow made me turn into the shelter and I volunteered a few hours there on a clerical project and it sure felt good. I did it in memory of my JOey and I intend to return.

I will trust in a good outcome for you and kitty.
 
Dear Jean
I've been having a hard time posting sometimes. I just tried to reply and got an error message. I wanted you to know that you and beautiful Ketchie are in my prayers. (((((((((((((JEAN))))))))))))))
Heather
 
Thank you Ruth, and Heather for your kind words.

Yesterday I took Ketchie to my vet's, and she is concerned that this lump is getting large enough, that it could break open. Ketchie had gained a couple ounces since we were there a couple months or so ago. But, I still watch her not want to eat, unless I give her the Mirtazapine sliver, every 2 to 3 days.

My vet offered to operate on her and take the lump off, but I just feel Ketchie will not make it through any kind of surgery. Plus I would want her to do x-rays, and also bloodwork, and I just don't have the money for all of that, let alone the fact that Ketchie is now going on 18 years old. I watch her here at home sometimes sleep so soundly, that noises I make around her, do not even wake her up. Plus sometimes, she gets these tremors while sitting on the counter of the sink in the bathroom where she drinks from the faucet. Years ago, she had an episode of Syncope (dizziness) and fell over and that was really scary. So, do I take a chance that my vet can get this tumor removed, or is it more risky with all her health problems, and I might lose her during surgery? That would really kill me. I suppose I know my answer, already, but I know the vet knows me well, and her husband is the vet who saved my Woodee almost 5 years ago, from fibrosarcoma, but Woodee at the time was only four years old.

I wish she would not have even brought up the possibility of surgery, as it really makes it a difficult decision for me now. I told her I need to get this test of my own done this Tuesday, October 9th, and then I will ponder the situation about Ketchie if I am okay. She did give Ketchie fluids (100 mls) yesterday also.

Thanks for all your advice and prayers!
Jean and Charcoal (GA)
 
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