PZI types - confused newbie

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David and Miles

David and Miles

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I've recently changed the insulin for my cat Miles to PZI (I was using Humulin N). I think I understand what PZI is and that it's purpose is to slow the absorption of the insulin into the system. At least I think that's the jist of it. What I'm fuzzy on is how the base insulin differs. There seem to be 'reformulated?' human insulin and Bovine insulin. There is also manufactured and compounded. It seems that the manufactured insulin will be more consistent from batch to batch and the compounded may vary. If you choose to use the compounded, is the only issue watching BG's when changing to a new vial? From what I've read, it seems that the Bovine insulin (BCP) is probably the most similar to a cat's own insulin. I'm just not sure what the other advantages and disadvantages might be.

I completed a 12 hour curve (6am to 6pm) this weekend with the new PZI insulin (compounded from Wedgewood pharmacy). 1 unit dose. I still need to update Miles SS but it looked pretty good (to my newbie eye). No big dips and rebounds. preshot was 378, nadir at 8 hours around 225 and low four hundreds at 12 (I don't have the numbers right in front of me). This is substantially better than the results from the Humulin. We're leaving this Friday for a 2 week vacation and I have someone who will give Miles his insulin, but won't be monitoring. I'm pretty comfortable that this curve will minimize the risk of Hypo...
Anyone has any info, advice, etc.... for me, I'd really apprecate it. I'll try and get Miles SS updated tonight.
 
I don't know anything about the science of PZI, Dave. It is an animal based insulin and made specifically for animals. The Lantus/Levemir insulins are human. All seem to work well in cats.

It sound like he is responding well. Usually we urge you to keep the dose for a week or so to let it settle in. What kind of food are you feeding?

Everyone on this forum uses or used PZI or ProZinc. We are small but friendly. More people are on in the am and pm, so be sure to come back to check for responses later tonight. It may be helpful to read other threads and check their spreadsheets to see what kind of different responses people are getting.

Welome!
 
Thanks for the reply.....
I've actually looked at both links. I think the BCP insulin looks pretty interesting, but I was hoping I get some feedback. I'm also concerned about changing to another insulin so soon. We just changed from Humulin N to PZI about 6 days ago. So far, it appears that he is doing much better with the PZI. I thought I'd see how Miles does with this before making any other changes. I'll do some more curves when we get back from vacation (I have someone giving Miles his insulin while we are gone. I'm lucky to have my brother housesitting for us while we're away.)

I was in panic mode a couple of weeks ago. Miles wasn't gaining any weight (has was at 11.5 pounds down from 15). I could feel every vertabrae in his spine. He had consistently high BG and started exhibiting signs of neuropathy. I felt like I had to do something right away. I started upping his dosage. (I know, I know) I finally came to the realization that I was the one that had to treat Miles with support from my Vet (and all the good people here). I changed his diet, got him on the PZI insulin and I'm starting at 1 unit and taking it slow. He's already responded with some weight gain. I was hoping that the change in diet would have a more immediate effect on his BG, but so far it hasn't. It's only been a week and a half, so I just need to be patient and keep getting smarter (or at least less ignorant).

So, I guess I'm asking if the PZI compounded with recombinant human insulin I'm using from Wedgewood pharmacy is OK, or should I be looking at a different insulin?

Thanks .... Dave & Miles
 
Yes, normally about now, we would suggest upping the dose by .25 (if the food switch is complete) But I remember now that you are leaving town and your brother won't be checking bg levels. I agree - play it safe until you get back and then you can get more agressive.

Check back. Some of the other posters may have more information than I do. I used PZI a few years ago, which has been discontinued.

You could show your brother how to sign in as you - just in case he has a problem and needs help.
 
I am not certain, but I think Holly and Max were on compounded PZI. Maybe she will respond.
 
Hi David and Miles

Welcome to PZI land.
I am more of a cheerleader than an advice giver.
we have been using PZI for only 2 months and I am still unsure of dosing
but everyone here is so very helpful
they will help you with all your questions

enjoy your vacation and look forward to getting to know you both

Denise and Shakes
 
Hi and welcome to our group.

I've never used the compounded PZI so I can't comment on that.

Is there any chance that you could teach your brother to home test Miles? It seems if he is willing to learn to give the shots, poking his ear and testing will only add a minute or two to the process and then he will know if it is safe to give Miles his insulin or not. I like the idea of having him log on and come here for help if he needs it.

Anyway glad you found us.

Robin
 
Hi David and Miles. Welcome to PZI land! So good that you are testing, it is the only way to be sure that your kitty is really safe. We highly recommend never giving an insulin shot without testing first, tho in your case the BG numbers are consistently high enough so as to probably not be a problem--- but things change quickly, so if there is anyone around who could test while you are away, that would be ideal. Keep posting and asking questions, we like to be helpful.
And enjoy your vacation!
Oh--your question was about the insulin-- some vets are wary of compounded insulin, as they feel the dosage might not be consistent. Many people here have used BCP compounded and liked it. You could try posting on Health and ask if anyone knows about Wedgewood.
 
Hello, David and Miles!

My kitty Stuart has been diagnosed diabetic for almost 7 years now, so know that there is hope! Finding and reading the the info on this board will give you the tools to succed in helping your cat. These people helped me to save mine!

Many years ago when we were trying to find an insulin that would work for Stuart, I tried BCP PZI several times, as beef insulin seemed to work best for my cat. Back then at least, I found that BCP compounded PZI insulins would often vary in potency from vial to vial, so I switched to PZI VET which was more consistent; now that PZI VET insulin is no longer available, I am going to try BCP's compounded insulin again because they formulate theirs from beef product, which is in general a better match to a cat's own insulin than insulin from other sources. (As a matter of fact, I just called my vet's office and asked them to order some for me.) When a diabetic cat is unregulated, it seems the most important thing is to find an insulin that will work for that particular cat; even though they are all the same species, each one is unique, and it may take trying different types of insulin. (Some companies will provide free insulin samples to veterinarians, so if you have a willing vet, they may be able to obtain different ones for you to try. BCP's web site says that they will do this.)

I will post the price that they give my vet (they would not discuss it with me unless they had a prescription on file/called in) if that is allowed here, and will happily either post or respond to private messages about my experiences with other types of insulin if you are interested. Best wishes and welcome!

(p.s. there is a section on this board that lists where many members live, and if you like you may find someone near you willing to help out with your kitty while you are gone.)

Victoria

edit: I ordered my BCP compounded beef insulin today, and the price agreed with what is posted on the PZI board, plus shipping. Now I get to hope UPS doesn't lose it! nailbite_smile
 
I know I'm late getting to this post, but I do wonder sometimes if Alex is on the right insulin for him. I read the Boehringer Ingelheim ProZinc website today and they say a cat should be regulated in 45 days. I guess we're on the remedial path.

Also, my ProZinc says it's recombinant human insulin.
 
I have also read that ProZinc is human insulin. The BCP is animal. If you read Joanna's post, you can get a free sample of the compounded BCP. (viewtopic.php?f=24&t=44961)

I don't think 45 days is the norm, unless the food change makes a huge difference. It took us 6 months with the old PZI, and that was considered pretty fast.
 
Straight from the BCP website. It might be worth trying. My vet is on vacation this week, but maybe I will discuss.

"BCP Veterinary Pharmacy has replicated the discontinued formula for 100% bovine protamine zinc insulin (PZI). With only one amino acid difference occurring at site A18, bovine PZI is the closest match to feline insulin available. Cats can accept this insulin better because it is much more like their own. By comparison, recombinant human insulin is the furthest removed from feline insulin with four amino acid differences, while porcine insulin has three amino acid differences and is structurally closest to canine insulin. The protamine binds to the insulin molecule and slowly releases insulin into the bodily tissue. Most cats can be regulated with only one dose per day, as opposed to the twice-a-day routine many cats require when using synthetic human insulin. Once-a-day insulin injections obviously offer a considerable compliance benefit for pet owners. Veterinarians have reported that there seems to be a smoother regulation of blood glucose curve when using BCP PZI®. This medication is a good choice for cats suspected of having insulin resistance. Some cats, whose condition had previously been difficult to control with other types of insulin, have finally been regulated with BCP PZI®. BCP Veterinary Pharmacy compounds its BCP PZI® with 100% pure bovine insulin crystals that meet all USP monograph specifications and insists upon ongoing analysis to ensure quality control."
 
The only cautions are that it may not be the same from batch to batch as it is compounded, but as we discussed on the other thread, as long as you are hometesting, it seems like that would be less of an issue. I think the BCP pharmacy is considered the best. It is also U100 strength insulin, not 40 so you would have to get used to that. I don't agree with the one dose a day info, but you would just have to start with it and see how it goes.
 
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