PZI insulin more expensive?

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steve a

steve a

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Hi, everyone. I have a 13-yr-old diabetic cat named Krystal.
I'm new here, not sure if I need to post this in the PZI support group, mods please let me know if I should.
currently I'm using Lantus insulin, but I've heard that bovine PZI insulin is more effective because its molecular structure is more similar to that of cat insulin. Anyway, I was wondering what people's thoughts are on PZI vs Lantus, and particularly how much more expensive is it?
 
success has been had with both insulins actually. they both work very well so either one is fine although newly diagnosed kitties on lantus seem to fair pretty well fairly quickly vs a cat put on lantus much later in their disease (although i've seen it work both ways) sooooo if you're on lantus now, i'd suggest reading up some on it and giving it a chance before tossing it to the wayside.

as far as costs go, lantus is by far more expensive than the new prozinc insulin or bcp's version of pzi. there are ways to make it a bit more economical though (i.e. buying solostar pens rather than vials, etc....)
 
I'm glad that you posted a new thread, your first one was not going to get much attention on the food thread.

I'll link it here.
viewtopic.php?f=28&t=3515&p=335774#p335774

On the previous thread I had asked if you were planning on hometesting and what food you are feeding, did you see my questions?

Regarding the PZI, I used to use PZI BCP, I believe it is similar to a cat's own naturally produced insulin, but when I switched my FDs to Levemir they all did much better.

Can you tell us more about your kitty?
 
tuckers mom said:
On the previous thread I had asked if you were planning on hometesting and what food you are feeding, did you see my questions?

If you could tell us about your kitty that would be great too. What type of food do you feed now? If you plan on switching to the lower carb foods it would be important to hometest your cats blood sugar if your cat is on insulin. Changing the diet can lower the BGs a lot, some cats even go off insulin just by diet change alone.


Regarding the PZI, I used to use PZI BCP, I believe it is similar to a cat's own naturally produced insulin, but when I switched my FDs to Levemir they all did much better.

Can you tell us more about your kitty?
Click to expand...

Krystal is about 13 yrs old, she's a gold tabby.
n534804577_446122_1613.jpg

63509_480376419577_534804577_5543684_6747918_n.jpg


I've always kept a mix of both moist and dry food in the house, because usually, my other cat, Kramer,
n534804577_446120_2088.jpg
was usually more likely to eat the moist, and Krystal the dry. Usually it was Meow Mix or 9 lives. Back in October I started noticing in Krystal a loss in weight, and the symptoms of what I now know to be diabetic neuropathy (weak legs, difficullty jumping up onto couches and beds. The vet prescribed Hills M/D, and said I could use either the moist or the dry, whichever I could get her to eat. But now that I've been reading about FD on the internet, I'm going to get both cats completely on moist food. Today I tried some of the moist foods that have real meat in the ingredients list, not just "product" or "meal".

Yes, I have a glucometer and have done two of my own glucose curves on her so far.
Here are the numbers on the latest one, having done 6 tests every two hours

Test 1 293 mg/dL (prior to a.m. feeding and insulin)
Test 2 284 mg/dL
Test 3 236 mg/dL
Test 4 244 mg/dL
Test 5 295 mg/dL
Test 6 322 mg/dL

Monday is my next appointment with my vet, I'll be discussing the latest curve, as well as all the things I've been reading about here on this and other feline diabetes sites.

I'm sorry, I didn't see "FDs" in the glossary. I assume the FD is Feline Diabetes?
 
The kitties are cute :) FD is feline diabetes, I usually try to spell that out in the beginning, sorry about that.

Lantus insulin is a great insulin, it's long lasting and gentle. If your cat is doing well on it I'd be inclined to stick with it, but check out the Lantus forum and read the stickies under the section titled Topics. The information there is amazing.

viewforum.php?f=9

Regarding your curve, it would be helpful for you and your vet if you noted the time of the first dose and how many hours after the dose the blood glucose (BG) was taken. Most of us keep a spreadsheet for our FDs. The one in my signature does not have much information because Kiki was just adopted but if you look at other peoples' spreadsheets you may find the spreadsheet makes sense to map out how your cat handles insulin and find trends that will help you better manage the FD.

Testing every day, before each shot and getting some spot checks if you can will keep your cat safe, especially now that you are transitioning to a better diet. Her BGs are going to come down and the dose of insulin you're on now may prove to be too high.

Have you read about MethylB12 to help with Neuropathy? Laurie Ulrich's site about her cat Jasper has some great info on that.
http://www.laurieulrich.com/jasper/
 
If you wanted the thing most closely matching kitty insulin then BCP would be the one. It is made of beef insulin which is just one amino acid different than kitty insulin.

As to cost, I have made a quick monthly anticipated cost breakdown of PZI insulin. It can be found here:
viewtopic.php?f=24&t=26185
If you need me to expand this spread sheet I can. And I know some others here have ordered BCP in the U100 strength to reduce costs a hair. I could add data about that too if needed. Also one can buy more than one bottle at a time of BCP to reduce shipping.

Please feel free to join us any time in PZI.

I hope that answers your questions. :smile:
 
I actuality, ProZinc is more expensive that Lantus. his is because the ProZinc vial only contains 400 units vice 1000 units for Lantus. I think that PCP PZI is still less expensive than Lantus, especially if you but the U100 BCP PZI.

Cindy + Mousie said:
success has been had with both insulins actually. they both work very well so either one is fine although newly diagnosed kitties on lantus seem to fair pretty well fairly quickly vs a cat put on lantus much later in their disease (although i've seen it work both ways) sooooo if you're on lantus now, i'd suggest reading up some on it and giving it a chance before tossing it to the wayside.

as far as costs go, lantus is by far more expensive than the new prozinc insulin or bcp's version of pzi. there are ways to make it a bit more economical though (i.e. buying solostar pens rather than vials, etc....)
Click to expand...
 
Larry and Kitties said:
I actuality, ProZinc is more expensive that Lantus. his is because the ProZinc vial only contains 400 units vice 1000 units for Lantus. I think that PCP PZI is still less expensive than Lantus, especially if you but the U100 BCP PZI.
Click to expand...
How much does 1000u of Lantus cost and what is the expiry on that? I can try to add it to my spreadsheet to compare with the factor of expiry included. Or anyone's welcome to download my SS and use it as the basis of a comparison of your own [and hopefully share it too :smile: ].

Obviously the amount of U a cat can consume in a month is limited.

The PZI Sticky contains extensive pricing notes for BCP and ProZinc.
 
LOL! i guess i should have said the upfront outlay of $$ is more for lantus than prozinc. what's it running these days, about $200-$220 for 5 solostar pens of lantus (which would be 1500 units) vs about $100 for a vial of prozinc if you shop around?

and yes, unit for unit the prozinc would indeed be more expensive
 
ProZinc can be had for EDIT: $80 [was $10 too low before oopps]

I don't know how to compute the expiry for the pens Cindy. Help with that would be appreciated. And I'm talking objective not subjective expiry. :smile:

@ 2 units twice per day a cat can only consume approx 122 units of insulin a month. I'm assuming most cats regulate on less that that with Lantus - I could be wrong? At that rate 1500 units would have to expire in just barely over a year to get their full value - no waste. For instance the official expiry of BCP is 6 months - so in scenarios where excess is left beyond 6 months, some is wasted.

A 2u twice per day habit of ProZinc is about EDIT: $300 for a year and it's expiry is 2 years from the date of manufacturer.

A 2u twice per day habit of U-40 BCP is about $210 for a year [which could actually be reduce a hair by combining shipments or maybe even going with U100 if one had to].

EDIT: Per the Solostar website: http://www.lantus.com/education/faq/sol ... pen.aspx#1
Each pen contains 300 units and they are only supposedly good for 28 days after opening. A 2u twice per day cat can only use 122 units. Thus each 28 days approximately 1/2 would be wasted. If 5 pens were $210 and that would last then last 5 months [if they could even last 5 months unopened]. So that would be a $500/year [actually $630/year since 3 set of 5 would be needed] habit on the Solostar method.
 
personally i think we're overcomplicating this for someone new to all this but i'll look at my pens when i get home and see what they say as far as expiration and verify how many i have left. i know i got the 5 pack last december, started using them around the end of february if i remember correctly, and have 1 or possibly 2 of them left and it is still going strong. i get at least two months out of each pen and haven't had one poop out early yet.
 
If one wanted to disregard the expiry on BCP and purchased a one years worth of BCP in U100 at a time for a 2u twice per day cat they would need to purchase 1500 units. That would be $170. For U40 BCP that would be $190.
 
What I have found in providing insulin for feline diabetics through Diabetic Cats in Need is that the human insulins (Levemir or Lantus) are more available cheaply or free than the PZIs. There are more folks here using the L/Ls, and thus when cats go into remission or sadly go to the rainbow bridge, those insulins become available, usually free or for the cost of shipping. I also have been able to find the L/Ls on Craig'sList inexpensively when human diabetics change their insulins. (One must always use appropriate caution when buying through CLs.)

I hardly ever find any PZI available cheaply or for free. I haven't even been able to get the owner of BCP Pet Pharmacy to call me back regarding a donation.

Just another pricing perspective.
 
Wow, thank you all for the help, I think I'm thoroughly confused now, LOL.

So now that (I think) someone mentioned shipping of the insulin to your home. How do they keep it refrigerated when It's being shipped?
 
Gandalf gets 1.3U of Levemir insulin BID.

My last batch of 5 Levemir Flexpens cost me $190 at cheapest local pharmacy. Those 5 pens will last us 15 months. Good to the last drop, every single pen. Each pen is 300U.

That's $12.66 per month. Break cost of each insulin in to monthly numbers and it gives you better perspective.

Of course because of usage, your cost may vary. But this is exceptionally cheaper than the $90 I paid every 3 months for PZI. Less than half as much. I don't even bother with ordering from Canadian pharmacies as some members do, but it is even cheaper for 5 pens from Canada.

Levemir is just as good as Lantus.
 
Insulin is shipped in an insulated package with an ice-pack - usually overnight -- which is why the shipping is a big expense.

Lantus and Levemir are designed to be good for at least 28 days stored at room temperature. So I don't have qualms about shipping via regular means rather than overnight.
PZI is more sensitive about temperature, and I've always seen it shipped overnight.

If you order them from Canada, the shipping is only $10 but takes up to 7 days. That said - I did not have any problem with the effectiveness of the Levemir and was able to use the cartridges completely. (Lantus has a tendency to break down and you will end up throwing some away after it has lost effectiveness). The Levemir that I bought came in a styrofoam lined box like a small icechest. The ice pack was no longer cold at 5 days or so from time of order - but as I said -- I was able to use all 5 cartridges to the last drop. More recently, I have driven to Canada to buy insulin since I live in Michigan -- 35 miles from the border. Not including travel costs - the insulin purchased at Walmart was $120 for a 5-pack of Levemir cartridges.

If you order PZI from BCP in Texas, they ship overnight in a padded envelope with an icepack. BCP PZI is usually made to order in small batches. When I bought insulin from them, my cat Norton needed a lot. I had my vet write the prescription for a one year supply -- which included refills. Since Norton was getting 11u BID (he was a high dose "Acrocat"), that meant I used a 10ml vial of U40 in about 18 days -- to reduce the shipping cost per vial, I ordered 3 vials at a time. BCP's quoted expiration date is 6 months from date of manufacture -- so make sure you order an amount that will be used up in that time.
 
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