Purina DM : refuses to eat unless extra gravy, what should i do? (RESOLVED)

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Cesar the Burmese

Cesar the Burmese

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Anyone here have this problem :

My cat Cesar (12 yo burmese, 2.5 U Prozinc twice a day) is used to eat a can/day of Purina DM until i've got a new lot of canned DM (Best Before May 2017). Since he started new lot, Cesar is eating less of his food and i've went to remove all his supplements (Omega 3, Metamucil, Fortiflora) to make him eat it again. I've also added 1 teaspoon of water in his mix and even more (to make a gravy with "licked until dry" meat).

Today, i've mixed a little bit of FF chicken gourmet (mostly gravy) in his food and was able to make him eat 90% of his meal.

My next step is change his Purina DM lot (returning it for new lot) and get some Purina DM Savory Select (known to have extra gravy) as backup plan. I also have some FF in hand for extra backup plan.

What would you do ?
 
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Lots of cats tire of the Purina DM. It is liver based and they seem to tire of the taste. My Oliver would eat anything and he only ate it a few weeks. I would not get the Purina Savory - sounds like higher carb. Purina will take back the food, no questions asked. If he will eat the FF pate with some water added, I'd go that route.

If you can avoid the higher carb, that's the best bet. Check out Dr. Lisa's food chart for options under 8%

http://catinfo.org/docs/FoodChartPublic9-22-12.pdf
 
Mix water in FF Classics to make it soupy, that's what Dusty likes and it helps keep him hydrated and regular.
 
And if you're really adventurous, set up a stock pot, put in a lean protein on bone, cover with water and start stewing. You can add gelatin (NOT pectin) to make the broth thicker and more gravy-like.
 
Cesar the Burmese said:
Finally, i've went with Hill's W/D tonight and Cesar ate his meal in 20 minutes instead of 90 minutes. I hope he continues this way.
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It's really great that you got Cesar to eat tonight. :)

And aww, gee ... I really hate to have to tell you this now, but that Hill's w/d canned is a whopping 25% carbohydrates :eek: - way too many carbs for a diabetic kitty. (I assume your vet suggested it? Mine did, too - and then he found out how high the carbs were, and told me to bring it back for a full refund!) High-carb food works against the insulin; although having some around is great for your "hypoglycemia kit" - for just in case your cat's blood sugar were to drop too low and you needed to steer it back up to safe levels quickly with food. (Not that we ever want that to happen ...)

We generally recommend you feed canned food at less than 10% carbs - actually, the lower the better. (Click on the food chart in @Sue and Oliver (GA) post #3 above - there are lots of good low-carb choices to be found there.)

Fancy Feast makes a great Classics pate of turkey with giblets - I have to mix that into my cat's Purina dm (3% carbs) now; she doesn't seem to like the Purina much anymore either, just like Cesar. The FF pates are low-carb; the turkey with giblets formula is only 4% carbs, and it costs less than those prescription-diet foods. (Bonus points!)
 
What I did when I had to transition my cat off the Hill's w/d: Started with 75% Hills/ 25% low-carb food for 2-3 days, then 50%/50% for 2-3 days, then 25% Hill's/75% low carb, then 100% the low-carb. That can help ease a cat into a good low-carb choice more easily, and helps prevent tummy upsets, too.
 
My opinion only..

Long term, yes the goal is a good low carb diet. But not every cat gets there quickly. The important thing is to get him to eat.

While 2.5u proznc isn't a huge dose, you wouldn't want him not eating at all. If w/d is what he wants for now, then I say go for it. And work on eventually transitioning to low carb.

You may have to adjust his dose around the carb content, but let his BG numbers dictate that as you collect data.
 
Previously, Cesar was on Hill's M/D due to overweight (11.2 lbs) and his diet lasted a week (constipating). After that, he went to Purina DM for a good 8 months then Hill's W/D (constipation strikes back) for 2 months then switch back to Purina DM (didn't like W/D anymore) with supplements. The problem is Cesar has a nice palate for food. He's attracted to dry food like a magnet (2 other cats in house who eats dry). Dry for Cesar is not even an option due to chronical constipation. His water intake is not enough and he's easily deshydrated. Since couple weeks, i've went from 2 water points to 5 and i see since that good changes on Cesar's water intake habits. Let's hope these changes will make a difference.
 
Hi, Joel - Yes, certainly having him eat anything should be of primary concern, given those DKA episodes; I agree that making any dietary change needs to be done very slowly and cautiously.

Could you please put Cesar's basic info into your signature so that it's quickly visible to those of us who respond to your questions/concerns? (See mine below & others' above for examples.) As is helpful for anyone assisting you to know diagnosis date, insulin type, meter used and be aware of other health problems (such as that DKA, any UTIs, pancreatitis, etc.) at-a-glance.

I went back and looked at your first thread and can see that you're testing his BG @ home. (That's great!) Would be good if you could get a spreadsheet started here, too, and plug those BG test#s/ insulin doses into it when you have time. In the "Remarks" section on SS, is good to note things like: when/what he's fed, weight, any changes in peeing/pooping & overall health, etc.
Here's a link for that - have a great day!:) - Robin
FDMB SPREADSHEET INSTRUCTIONS
 
Right away

Signature done but will take time to rollback all the previous BS and curves done in past (1 year of data collected)
Be patient!
 
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Cesar the Burmese said:
Right away

Signature done but will take time to rollback all the previous BS and curves done in past (1 year of data collected)
Be patient!
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Cool!:cool: No worries, Joel - I can be patient (sometimes...:rolleyes:; has always been one of my personal sticky-wickets, that "learning patience" thing). I'm just really happy to hear you've kept all those records!:bighug:

ETA: Excellent signature info, btw! Thanks for getting that up there.
 
Entering the past 2 weeks is the most important, since that is recent history and useful seeing what is going on now.

With his history of DKA, you might want to pick up some KetoDiaStix so you can test his urine for ketones. Or, if possible, pick up a keone blood meter - Precision XTra or NovaMax Plus - to test for ketones in the blood. Ketones will show up in the blood before they start showing up in the urine, so that would let you catch it early.
 
Cesar the Burmese said:
Anyone here have this problem :

My cat Cesar (12 yo burmese, 2.5 U Prozinc twice a day) is used to eat a can/day of Purina DM until i've got a new lot of canned DM (Best Before May 2017). Since he started new lot, Cesar is eating less of his food and i've went to remove all his supplements (Omega 3, Metamucil, Fortiflora) to make him eat it again. I've also added 1 teaspoon of water in his mix and even more (to make a gravy with "licked until dry" meat).

Today, i've mixed a little bit of FF chicken gourmet (mostly gravy) in his food and was able to make him eat 90% of his meal.

My next step is change his Purina DM lot (returning it for new lot) and get some Purina DM Savory Select (known to have extra gravy) as backup plan. I also have some FF in hand for extra backup plan.

What would you do ?
Click to expand...
I feed my diabetic cat Soulistic-Only 1 PetCo near me sells it-you can buy online-but it's great and I can feed to my other cats and
Cesar the Burmese said:
Anyone here have this problem :

My cat Cesar (12 yo burmese, 2.5 U Prozinc twice a day) is used to eat a can/day of Purina DM until i've got a new lot of canned DM (Best Before May 2017). Since he started new lot, Cesar is eating less of his food and i've went to remove all his supplements (Omega 3, Metamucil, Fortiflora) to make him eat it again. I've also added 1 teaspoon of water in his mix and even more (to make a gravy with "licked until dry" meat).

Today, i've mixed a little bit of FF chicken gourmet (mostly gravy) in his food and was able to make him eat 90% of his meal.

My next step is change his Purina DM lot (returning it for new lot) and get some Purina DM Savory Select (known to have extra gravy) as backup plan. I also have some FF in hand for extra backup plan.

What would you do ?
Click to expand...
Cesar the Burmese said:
Anyone here have this problem :

My cat Cesar (12 yo burmese, 2.5 U Prozinc twice a day) is used to eat a can/day of Purina DM until i've got a new lot of canned DM (Best Before May 2017). Since he started new lot, Cesar is eating less of his food and i've went to remove all his supplements (Omega 3, Metamucil, Fortiflora) to make him eat it again. I've also added 1 teaspoon of water in his mix and even more (to make a gravy with "licked until dry" meat).

Today, i've mixed a little bit of FF chicken gourmet (mostly gravy) in his food and

My next step is change his Purina DM lot (returning it for new lot) and get some Purina DM Savory Select (known to have extra gravy) as backup plan. I also have some FF in hand for extra backup plan.

What would you do ?
Click to expand...
Cesar the Burmese said:
Anyone here have this problem :

My cat Cesar (12 yo burmese, 2.5 U Prozinc twice a day) is used to eat a can/day of Purina DM until i've got a new lot of canned DM (Best Before May 2017). Since he started new lot, Cesar is eating less of his food and i've went to remove all his supplements (Omega 3, Metamucil, Fortiflora) to make him eat it again. I've also added 1 teaspoon of water in his mix and even more (to make a gravy with "licked until dry" meat).

Today, i've mixed a little bit of FF chicken gourmet (mostly gravy) in his food and was able to make him eat 90% of his meal.

My next step is change his Purina DM lot (returning it for new lot) and get some Purina DM Savory Select (known to have extra gravy) as backup plan. I also have some FF in hand for extra backup plan.

What would you do ?
Click to expand...
I feed my diabetic cat Soulistic(u can get from PetCo or Amazon)
813778013024A.jpg

And he loves it, along with my other kitties. He won't eat any of the DM food
 
Cesar the Burmese said:
His water intake is not enough and he's easily deshydrated.
Click to expand...
Just FYI, since this info is hard to find, but if you manage to track down the Hill's W/D pamplet they give to vets, it says canned W/D (and dry) are not recommended for dehydrated cats, since they can contribute to dehydration. Might want to keep doing "tent tests" if you ever feed it long term.
 
I know dehydratation leads to constipation (Metamucil helps to flow out if cat drinks water accordingly).
I know also there is an embargo (cow disease in 2003) on US meat to Canada. I was trying to get for other cat (dx CKD) Purina NF canned but not available in Canada. Could be fined for having illegal meat.
I'm kinda stuck with choices ... but i'll find out.
 
I've updated my signature with Cesar's SS. Results are the last 2 weeks. Quite disturbing. Serious discussion with my vet coming up (effeciency of ProZinc VS Lantus).
 
Have you been able to check for ketones? (Are you still having problems with getting him to eat/constipation or has that been resolved now?)

You said you will be having discussion with vet; are you taking Cesar in for an appt? As I'm wondering if it could be some kind of inflammatory process going on somewhere in his system. (How are his teeth/gums?)
 
No appointment so far, i've changed his diet (Purina DM Dry) to make sure that he eats 100% of his meal (struggling to making him eat his meal before as post says). I would say that Cesar doesn't have constipation since i've swapped his diet and added 2 more bowls of fresh water and bathroom sink filled with water. Since i've swapped to dry, he eats like a dog : 5 minutes and his meal is done. It not a matter of gums or teeths, he's fed up of his wet diet + supplements.
 
Well, I'm glad he's eating for you & isn't having trouble pooping, as even constipation can cause BGs to stay high. So ... at this point, I guess all I can say is that I hope that your discussion with the vet will yield some good solutions to help you get Cesar's #s down again.

I really feel for you, as with Cesar's tendency to be finicky about food + his history of DKA, I know you're in a difficult position in terms of any attempt to lower his carb intake. (Since getting him to eat any type of food consistently is especially important in his case ... )
I'll be thinking good thoughts for you! Keep us posted, ok? :bighug:
 
So far his behavior is quite intriguing : no lethargy, drinking often (rehydratation) and peeing as normal. Eye membrane is not showing up and he's alert on every noise. Still shaky legs but due to uncontrolled diabetes. He as no limitation to jump on countertop and furnitures.

Yes, i'm glad to see the SS tool is working. This would save me alot of time and finding about last results on him and see on the spot if he had good day or good nights or to see what's going on in a flash.
I expect an increase of insulin to put him on low numbers (slowly have a descending line). Will keep you in touch.
 
In case you've not already come across it, Feline Constipation is an excellent web site explaining the feline GI tract, how it works, and various interventions. I'm not saying change, since you've got him stable; its more for reference info.
 
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Update of Cesar :

He's getting better since the birth of my son (end of september).
He actually eats Purina DM canned completely. I've completed his transition from dry to wet in 2 weeks. Restoralax was also used as supplement to prevent constipation.
Dosage of insulin is decreasing every week (1 U at least).
So far, he's a very joyful cat, horseplaying with his feline mates.
 
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