Pudge - an introduction

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sophie

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Hi,
My name is Sophie and my ProZinc insulin FD – no other illness - kitty’s name is Pudge, 10 yo male, overweight, diagnosed on Dec. 17, 2011. I have written a couple of posts on the Health forum, have met some of you already, and greatly appreciated your help and kindness! I’ve updated his ss, but am having computer problems so still need to make corrections - old comp freezes and generally drives me nuts when I work on his ss.

I’m pondering the following issues: (1) unregulated FD kitties are starving, yet some messages posted here indicate limiting the amount of food. How do you reconcile the issues of starvation vs. nutrients needed vs. needing to lose weight vs. kitty just feeling hungry vs. dr Lisa’s comment “…don’t starve your cat…” I realize that when Pudge loses some weight (weighs around 18 lbs – vet says he should be around 14 or 15 lbs) he’ll need less insulin. (2) keeping a kitty on a dose for a period of time to “settle into the dose” – what’s reasonable and what’s a rigid adherence to this rule and fear of an increase of insulin? I already see that I won’t increase a dose in the PM (will even decrease it) so that I can sleep more soundly, but have no problem with daytime increases if I’m home. Many thanks for your comments. Great feeling that you guys are here. I’ll respond as my comp permits!

Sophie
 
Hi Sophie!
You are actually getting good curves on the 1.6 and 1.8 doses. He seems to drop better than 50% most cycles.

I’m pondering the following issues: (1) unregulated FD kitties are starving, yet some messages posted here indicate limiting the amount of food. How do you reconcile the issues of starvation vs. nutrients needed vs. needing to lose weight vs. kitty just feeling hungry vs. dr Lisa’s comment “…don’t starve your cat…” I realize that when Pudge loses some weight (weighs around 18 lbs – vet says he should be around 14 or 15 lbs) he’ll need less insulin. (2) keeping a kitty on a dose for a period of time to “settle into the dose” – what’s reasonable and what’s a rigid adherence to this rule and fear of an increase of insulin? I already see that I won’t increase a dose in the PM (will even decrease it) so that I can sleep more soundly, but have no problem with daytime increases if I’m home.
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1- An unregulated cat will need more food than "normal" until his BG is better controlled. It is fine to have the goal of taking a couple of pounds off of Pudge, but it is easier to put him on a diet to achieve that goal later rather than now. How much is he eating (what brand/flavors and how many cans a day?) You mentioned that when he loses weight, he'll need less insulin. That isn't necessarily true. Doses are not based on how much a cat weighs. They are based on his BG numbers and on how he reacts to the insulin. A 10 pound cat can require higher doses than a 18 pound cat does.
2 - Have you read the "start low go slow" protocol yet? It has some guidelines for adjusting the dose. Here's a link, and it is in "Step 3". You should read all 5 steps, but #3 gives you some idea of how long a dose should be held, and how much the increase or decrease should be.

In general, it is best to shoot the same dose day and night for a few days. Adjusting the dose each cycle or each day can confuse things. At some point when his overall numbers are lower, you may be able to adjust to his preshot number for instance, but not until you have a large amount of data that shows you how specific doses have worked. If you see a constant pattern, where his morning tests are always higher than his evening tests, that would be another indicator that maybe the shots could be adjusted accordingly. But again, that is based on lots of data and obvious patterns, and can't be used effectively unless his BG is a little more controlled.

Carl

edit to add link:
http://binkyspage.tripod.com/SLGS.html
 
Welcome to PZI, Sophie. We are a small, friendly group that is busiest in the am and pm.

Carl answered your questions; I just wanted to say welcome.
 
Hi!

Carl, thank you for your reply. Pudge was originally on dry food, then, on Fancy Feast classics. For the past 3 – 4 weeks he’s been on Before Grain quail & chicken, chicken, and turkey, but still prefers FF chicken feast and FF turkey & giblets classics and gets it when he buries his BG food. I don’t limit the amounts but he probably eats 16 oz in 24 hours. His treats are freeze dried 100% chicken (Whole Life) or boiled pieces of chicken breast. All PSBGs and +6 values I test with no food given the prior 2 hours, unless otherwise noted. I’ve read the linked material, but perhaps this time it will stick to my heart and soul as much as it did to my reason before. You’re kind to provide it again. I loathe those high glucose values, imagine what they’re doing to Pudge and want to rush the process, thus, possibly extending it.

Sue, thank you! I remember your great information, kindness and sweetness.

Sophie
 
Welcome Sophie and Pudge. My cat, copper, is around 17lbs and vet says should be at 15lbs. He lost from 21lbs to 17lbs. I think he was looking very solid, not fat at 21lbs. He is mane coon and so much bigger. I've struggled with the issue of whether i should feed him less now or wait until he is regulated. He basically gives me the direction. When he first got dx he was eating everything coming and going (only dry food, dog food, mice, moles, birdies). When i switched him to only Fancy Feast classics 7% or less, his BG dropped almost 100pts within several days. He was eating about 15-16oz of FF/day and just holding his weight. He was very unregulated then. We still are not there quite yet, but better. Now he is only eating about 12oz/day. I am home enough that i can feed him 4times/day and split it up throughout the day. When he finally does get regulated, i hope, i hope to then get him down to 10oz/day. I do know that Dr. Lisa reccommends that you don't let him starve. She has a great article on transitioning from dry to wet food. She is a wonderful resource!

Good luck and i know i will see you around! Just wanted to introduce myself and say hi and welcome to you.

Lori
 
Good morning and welcome, Sophie and Pudge! ~O)

While trying to regulate, I'd let Pudge eat what he will - it's the insulin that helps with absorption of the nutrients and not enough insulin (unregulated) means not all food is absorbed - as long as it's low carb wet. Once he gets closer to being regulated, you'll notice the food intake decrease naturally (maybe I better not say that - ECID). While unregulated, Poopy would eat anything not nailed down. Now, as he's closer to being regulated, he tends to eat moderately on his own.

Holding a dose for the cat to settle, for me, also means getting numbers so we can "see" how it's working. This gives us data to understand how a particular dose works for the future. Once we have the data on the dose, we can move the dose up or down and continue getting data.

For example, 1.4u works best for Poopy when his PS is in the low 200s. When his PS is higher, I give him a higher dose - due to what he has shown me with his numbers. Make sense?
 
Greetings Sophie and Pudge!

I would advise at first to just let him eat but keep track so that you know how much Pudge is eating. I have a little weight watchers that measures ounces- got it at Krogers for $3 on sale.
Sneakers was starving when she was DX'd- and had lost 3lbs so she was underweight- and would steal food off my plate- literally- and ate anything- veggie, grains, or meat.

I first changed her diet and she was eating 10-12oz per day and then I changed her to Dr. L's recipe and she was still eating a lot- I would weigh her food to keep track. As I got the testing routine down she slowly decreased to where she was eating around 8-9 oz a day. Just recently she has decreased again to make it between 6-7 oz.

The process has been over two months and in the beginning she gained weight- that she needed. She is back to being a 9-10lb cat again.
 
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