Prozinc

Dawn, what is Little Girl eating these days? How about treats - if she eats them, what kind? Do you have other pets that eat anything different?
 
Little girl is on fancy feast pate and I have 2 other cats in the house hold my big guy named finn is overweight. So we have dry food out for free range we switched them to overweight mangement by purina pro plan. However because little girl is so sick with the kidney infection / her kidney numbers were pretty much on the edge of kideny failure. She eats pate fancy feast and tuna in oil or water. She has ate the dry food but not much only nibbles. I did find some treats pounce is the name 6-8 pieces for a cat her weight which id only give about 4 pieces, which she weigh's 5 lbs right now with the diabetes and what not she went from 5.7 lbs to now 5lbs.
 
She went into atleast over 600 for sure when tested before insulin at 12pm. We gave 1.25 u and at +6 it was 592... she has been eating more.. we have been doing 1.25u for couple days now and 1.50 u in the amps and pmps seems to much she drops to low at the nadir. Stick with 1.25 u for couple more days?
 
I did 1.50 u to get to lower the bg. I'm assuming because she's feeling better and eating alot more 1.50 u might be okay now. Will check at +6 to see her low.
 
I would very much suggest a change in food. Finn will lose weight much better on a low carb diet wet diet - just like with humans, carbs cause weight gain, although while we need carbs, cats do not. If you transition all of your cats to a low carb wet diet, Finn will have a better chance of losing weight, and Little Girl will get out of those black numbers. Even a single piece of kibble can raise their BG numbers. Believe me, I've tried it. :rolleyes: I really didn't want to take Sam off of kibble because it's so convenient, but finally saw that even a bite or two made a big difference for him. Same with the treats. You can get freeze dried chicken or other freeze dried meat treats. Kitties go absolutely crazy for them and they don't have carbs.

Insulin alone isn't enough to get a kitty into healthy numbers. It has to be insulin and diet working together.
 
Dawn12345 said:
Any ideas on what to give for constipation? I've been giving 1tsp of canned pumpkin for 5 days now. She is trying to go but just isn't coming. Up the pumpkin? Or any other ideas? @Djamila @Kris & Teasel @Rachel
Click to expand...
I wish I could help but I don't have experience with constipation in my kitties. Many here use Miralax if pumpkin doesn't help. It's also a good idea to add extra water to all wet food meals because maintaining good hydration is important. Some members have success with a supplement called "Natural Moves" that can be ordered online:
https://www.nativeremedies.com/petalive/natural-moves-for-pets-support-digestive-health.html
 
Try 1/4t miralax twice/day until she poops. And definitely add extra water to the food - I add a hearty 3T to a can of fancy feast. Some people add even more than that.
 
Djamila said:
Try 1/4t miralax twice/day until she poops. And definitely add extra water to the food - I add a hearty 3T to a can of fancy feast. Some people add even more than that.
Click to expand...
We gave her cat lax anD a little later the miralax she has pooped 2 days in a row now
 
We took little girl in to do a blood test just to see where her numbers are at then before she has been on an antibotic called albon? Something like that. She's taking 1 1/2 of that orally. AnD then he's giving her every 4 to 5 days a shot of vanquinmyicyn. Her numbers for her kidney's are changing in numbers for the good but not a huge change within the 2 weeks are plan is to keep doing antibotics and fluids ect. Retest blood in a month. I got a copy of the test will be uploading it here. Almost forgot her weight is now 5.3 vs 5.0
 
I'm glad things are improving. :) I can't comment on the antibiotics because I have no experience there.

Try hard to stick to the same dose AM and PM and not react to the PS unless absolutely necessary. I'd go with 1.25 u for now. Dec 20 was interesting in that she came down to 11 on only 0.5 u. These weird things will happen occasionally but overall dose consistency is best.
 
I've been giving 1.5 u for 3 days besides the weird hiccup on 12/20. Her Bg has been high even at checking +6 it's in the 500s do I need to go up in 0.25 unit and make it 2 units at amps and at pmps? or go back to 1.25u see what happens? I also am going to switch at testing her now on the +5 maybe her nadir changed however still shouldnt be that high. I have been feeding tuna in oil alot due to she has alot of weight loss and needs to gain weight maybe I'll feed that to her morning and night and feed tuna in water rest of time, I know fat turns into sugar too. I know her insulin has to be consistent. @Kris & Teasel
 
I still recommend 1.25 u and leave it there for AM and PM for, say, two days unless a PS is very low. Post here for help if that happens. Those blacks can be rebound numbers from dropping even a little lower than normal. She's volatile in her responses and frequent dose changes can make that worse.
 
Last edited:
While most cats have a time when they reach a typical nadir, it can and does change from cycle to cycle, so it's good to move the tests around and not just test at +6 each cycle. It will give you a more complete picture. Also, when you can, getting two tests in a cycle can be helpful to start to get a sense of the duration of the dose.

I'm not an expert in feline nutrition, but I've read that oil is not good for cats. In addition, canned tuna is not nutritionally complete and should only be fed occasionally since it doesn't have the nutrients cats need to stay healthy. Many say cats shouldn't be fed tuna at all because of the mercury in it. If you are wanting Little Girl to have more calories, I think a higher calorie, but nutritionally complete food might be a better way to approach that.
 
Yeah she's Eating fancy feast but she honestly hates the pate. She treat's it as if she is drinking water so she gets tired of licking... so I've been mixing tuna in oil and the fancy feast together. We also wondered about the tuna in oil however that's what the vet recommended.
 
20181223_112404.jpg

@Kris & Teasel @Rachel @Djamila
@JanetNJ

Here's the test results from 12/21/18 and numbers on far right are results from 12/9/18
 

Attachments

  • 20181223_112334.jpg
    20181223_112334.jpg
    55.3 KB · Views: 133
Last edited:
I went to 1.5 u tonight again we keep dropping to about 300 and then rising to 470ish by noon which is the morning insulin shot. Then at night we are eventually running about 400 again at +6 by +12 comes along we are higher again. If 1.5u doesn't work might have to go up to 2.0 u however questions here. How many times do you feed a diabetic cat? I feed early in the morning and she eats about 1 tblsp of tuna with her meds ect. Then I'll feed her about +5 later and she eats 1 1/2 tsp of fancy feast then she's hungry about +3 later then eats after that +4 mind you she only eats 1 1/2 tsp unless she's really hungry up to 1tbsp. Then i test her blood, feed, then shoot. Am I feeding to much? She needs to gain weight so ive been letting her eat whenever
 
I don't have any experience with labs, Dawn, so I don't have good info about that.

As for food, I always free fed my cats, even with my sugar cat. I just took it up 2 hours before shot if they hadn't eaten it all. It's fine to feed a diabetic several times throughout the day...a lot of people do that. It can help regulate them a little better to have smaller meals more frequently (also help them to feel more full and not be panicky at meal time!).
 
I can't help with lab interpretation either. As for feeding, I would let her eat as much as she wants in several small meals a day or let her graze if that's her style. As Rachel said, just remove all food in the two hours prior to the PS.

Re dose: I'd go back to 1.5 u for 3 or 4 cycles. If that doesn't produce at least a yellow, go up to 1.75 u (not 2.0 u - too bug an increase at this low dose level) for 3 - 4 cycles. She's very volatile and things have been complicated by the infection but dose consistency and regular 0.25 u increases as needed is the way to go.
 
Kris & Teasel said:
I can't help with lab interpretation either. As for feeding, I would let her eat as much as she wants in several small meals a day or let her graze if that's her style. As Rachel said, just remove all food in the two hours prior to the PS.

Re dose: I'd go back to 1.5 u for 3 or 4 cycles. If that doesn't produce at least a yellow, go up to 1.75 u (not 2.0 u - too bug an increase at this low dose level) for 3 - 4 cycles. She's very volatile and things have been complicated by the infection but dose consistency and regular 0.25 u increases as needed is the way to go.
Click to expand...
Okay awesome we did the 1.5 u and it dropped at +6 150. It all depends how much she eats in a day I figured out. She eats fancy feast or tuna in water/ or in oil. Hardly eats dry food.
 
Dawn12345 said:
Okay awesome we did the 1.5 u and it dropped at +6 150. It all depends how much she eats in a day I figured out. She eats fancy feast or tuna in water/ or in oil. Hardly eats dry food.
Click to expand...
Nice!. Keep that dose for today and we'll see what tomorrow's AMPS is. No dry food is best and as much proper cat food as she'll eat because the recipe includes all the needed vitamins and minerals. We often recommend limiting fish and big fish like tuna are higher in the food chain so they tend to have higher mercury levels.
 
Last edited:
Kris & Teasel said:
Nice!. Keep that dose for today and we'll see what tomorrow's AMPS is. No dry food is best and as much proper cat food as she'll eat because the recipe includes all the needed vitamins and mineral. We often recommend limiting fish and big fish like tuna are higher in the food chain so they tend to have higher mercury levels.
Click to expand...
I read that. I need to go get the chicken fancy feast when I can possibly couple days.
 
We are now giving her 1.75 u however she's been staying in the 400-almost 600 range. Her lowest she has dropped that I know is 207. She is eating a good amount of fancy feast poultry now most so far is 1 can and 1/4 of another in one day plus eating a tad bit dry food. We will be sticking with 1.75 u for couple days. Not really sure why she is running so high. Does prozinc ever balance out the amps or the pmps? Are these numbers going to always remain high? Was just wondering we will see for couple days then will be increasing to 2 u @Kris & Teasel
 
Dawn12345 said:
We are now giving her 1.75 u however she's been staying in the 400-almost 600 range. Her lowest she has dropped that I know is 207. She is eating a good amount of fancy feast poultry now most so far is 1 can and 1/4 of another in one day plus eating a tad bit dry food. We will be sticking with 1.75 u for couple days. Not really sure why she is running so high. Does prozinc ever balance out the amps or the pmps? Are these numbers going to always remain high? Was just wondering we will see for couple days then will be increasing to 2 u @Kris & Teasel
Click to expand...
I'd continue with 1.75 u today and bump it to 2.0 u tomorrow. The yellow lows are an improvement over pinks. Yes, she's bouncy and rebounds high. If you hold an ineffective dose too long glucose toxicity can build (quickly in some cats) and reduce her sensitivity to insulin. That's the reason for fairly frequent 0.25 u increases until you see low blues in the middle cycle. Try to ignore the PSs and focus on the lows.
 
Dawn12345 said:
Not really sure why she is running so high. Does prozinc ever balance out the amps or the pmps? Are these numbers going to always remain high?
Click to expand...

Yes, prozinc does eventually bring down the PS numbers, although not quite as flat as the L insulins get. However, since she's eating some kibble, they will probably remain rather high, although hopefully better than they are now. She's getting a really good insulin response (the amount of change from pre-shot to nadir), so when the rest of the kitties are transitioned off of the kibble completely, you will see improvement.
 
Djamila said:
Yes, prozinc does eventually bring down the PS numbers, although not quite as flat as the L insulins get. However, since she's eating some kibble, they will probably remain rather high, although hopefully better than they are now. She's getting a really good insulin response (the amount of change from pre-shot to nadir), so when the rest of the kitties are transitioned off of the kibble completely, you will see improvement.
Click to expand...
I have told my parents that all cats should be on wet however affording the wet food for all cats are expensive 30 cans for 17.00 once 3 cats are eating it its expensive. The dry kibble is prescribed over weight management purina pro plan 50.00 for 16lbs bag that lasts more then a month due to litthe girl hardly eating it. Little girl comes to us and asks for wet food most the time before going to dry. When she eats dry it's only about 10 pieces if that and she walks away. Checked bg at +11 later 585. gave her 2 u at 12pm tested +4 hrs later 453. Not dropping fast might be good then? She's irritated with us now and blood testing isnt bad but giving insulin she fights. She hates the needle thinks what the vet did we r going to do.
 
Kris & Teasel said:
I'd continue with 1.75 u today and bump it to 2.0 u tomorrow. The yellow lows are an improvement over pinks. Yes, she's bouncy and rebounds high. If you hold an ineffective dose too long glucose toxicity can build (quickly in some cats) and reduce her sensitivity to insulin. That's the reason for fairly frequent 0.25 u increases until you see low blues in the middle cycle. Try to ignore the PSs and focus on the lows.
Click to expand...
I have a feeling this little one is eating too much. She eats 1 tbs of food 5 to 6 times a day.. she weighs 5.8 pounds now I'm wondering if this is too much? We tested her bg it said hi.. giving her 2u here soon see what happens overnight.
 
Dawn12345 said:
I have a feeling this little one is eating too much. She eats 1 tbs of food 5 to 6 times a day.. she weighs 5.8 pounds now I'm wondering if this is too much? We tested her bg it said hi.. giving her 2u here soon see what happens overnight.
Click to expand...
If she needs to gain weight you can let her eat. Is she still getting kibble. That'll make it hard to stabilize BGs. Aside from that, continue the 0.25 u increases until you see blues in the middle of the cycle. Ignore the high PSs.
 
Kris & Teasel said:
If she needs to gain weight you can let her eat. Is she still getting kibble. That'll make it hard to stabilize BGs. Aside from that, continue the 0.25 u increases until you see blues in the middle of the cycle. Ignore the high PSs.
Click to expand...
Yes she is eating some kibble,not alot. Went to 2 u and lastnight it dropped to 54 at +7 hours. She didn't eat much at night. But eats more during the day. I will ignore the amps numbers and pmps I know the mid is important I'm sure she won't stay in the "green" over night. still give her 2 u if her amps is at 225? Or even 399?
 
Dawn12345 said:
Yes she is eating some kibble,not alot. Went to 2 u and lastnight it dropped to 54 at +7 hours. She didn't eat much at night. But eats more during the day. I will ignore the amps numbers and pmps I know the mid is important I'm sure she won't stay in the "green" over night. still give her 2 u if her amps is at 225? Or even 399?
Click to expand...
Your PMPS and dose for last night are missing from your SS. That 54 might be an initial dramatic reaction to a dose increase earlier. Lots of cats run lower at night too. I suggest you try 2 u today and get a +2 to see where she might be headed.

If the extremely high PS continue you can give some thought to trying Lantus instead. It can be bought much more cheaply from a reputable Canadain online pharmacy - info available later on if you want it.
 
Yeah I was wondering about an insulin change the vet offers vetsulin as the next insulin ? I can tell him about lantus next vet appointment is Monday the 7th
 
Kris & Teasel said:
Your PMPS and dose for last night are missing from your SS. That 54 might be an initial dramatic reaction to a dose increase earlier. Lots of cats run lower at night too. I suggest you try 2 u today and get a +2 to see where she might be headed.

If the extremely high PS continue you can give some thought to trying Lantus instead. It can be bought much more cheaply from a reputable Canadain online pharmacy - info available later on if you want it.
Click to expand...
I see that weird didn't save she was high about 600 I'm assuming.
 
Dawn12345 said:
Yeah I was wondering about an insulin change the vet offers vetsulin as the next insulin ? I can tell him about lantus next vet appointment is Monday the 7th
Click to expand...
Actually, Vetsulin can make a bouncy kitty even bouncier. A depot insulin like Lantus generally gets them calmer.
 
I agree with Kris - don't let your vet talk you into vetsulin. If they bounce on Prozinc, they'll really bound on vetsulin. If you want to switch, head towards lantus or levemir.
 
Kris & Teasel said:
Actually, Vetsulin can make a bouncy kitty even bouncier. A depot insulin like Lantus generally gets them calmer.
Click to expand...
I think I might know the problem and of course very new to this our prozinc is in the fridge door.. I read that you shouldn't put that there. I'm wondering if I need to get a new vial of prozinc the insulin isn't cloudy looking like it was in the beginning. Before I put it in the syringe I roll the vial.it's cloudy but not enough. I see clear more then cloudy in the syringe. Let me know your thoughts on this
 
Dawn12345 said:
I think I might know the problem and of course very new to this our prozinc is in the fridge door.. I read that you shouldn't put that there. I'm wondering if I need to get a new vial of prozinc the insulin isn't cloudy looking like it was in the beginning. Before I put it in the syringe I roll the vial.it's cloudy but not enough. I see clear more then cloudy in the syringe. Let me know your thoughts on this
Click to expand...
When you roll the vial gently a few times it should take on a milky appearance. If you see clumps, etc. that's a sign the insulin has been altered somehow.
 
Kris & Teasel said:
When you roll the vial gently a few times it should take on a milky appearance. If you see clumps, etc. that's a sign the insulin has been altered somehow.
Click to expand...
Okay good to know. We are going to finish this up I placed it in the fridge not the door, it is milky but not milky enough. Might need a new vial. We are also weening the cats off dry food and they will only be allowed to eat dry at night time now. I think this will be for the better to help the elevated bg like Djamila suggested. Her bg at +2 was 296 I only gave 1.75 u due to not going to feed dry throughout the day. Another bg check will be +6.
 
Last edited:
+6 after amps was 308 by the time +11 came she was 533. Even without the dry kibble she runs higher however not like 600 though. I will be going back up to 2 u. I just didn't want to put her in low sugars since I took away dry. We will see what her amps says today go from there.
 
In some cats the impact of removing kibble is almost immediate. In other cats it takes a little while. Especially given the 54 the night before, a high cycle was to be expected. When a kitty isn't used to low numbers like that, they will "bounce" up into the high numbers for a cycle or two. Hopefully she'll settle back down soon. @Kris & Teasel has written out a nice explanation of bouncing. I'm sure she'll be along soon...:)
 
Here's my explanation of bouncing. It explains why a kitty's BG can go from low to sky high:
  1. BG goes low OR lower than usual OR drops too quickly.
  2. Kitty's body panics and thinks there's danger (OMG! My BG is too low!).
  3. Complex physiologic processes take glycogen stored in the liver (I think of it as "bounce fuel"), convert it to glucose and dump it into the bloodstream to counteract the perceived dangerously low BG.
  4. These processes go into overdrive in kitties who are bounce prone and keep the BG propped up varying lengths of time (AKA bouncing).
  5. Bounce prone kitty repeats this until his body learns that healthy low numbers are safe. Some kitties are slow learners.
  6. Too high a dose of insulin can keep them bouncing over and over until the " bounce fuel" runs out and they crash - ie., have a hypo episode. That's why we worry so much about kitties that have had too high a starting dose prescribed by the vet and the owner isn't home testing.
 
Thank you for explaining. I read up about the liver however your explaination is better. :) she started off on 1 u amps 1u pmps. She's only been on insulin for a month I suppose it takes longer for the body to realize it doesn't need to take from liver
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top