Prozinc advice!

J

Joysunsun

Member
Hello,

my cat does not have any symptoms of diabetes anymore, he’s now a good weight, doesn’t drink more than a healthy cat and goes to the toilet a normal amount of times. He eats wet food only.

However I’ve not been able to get his numbers stable.

We’re in the uk and for about 6 months the vet allowed all the doses to be based on home testing. Then in September he went too low so I didn’t give him his morning jab, we lowered the dose from 2.5 units to 1/2 unit. A few days later it was too high again so we slowly increased to 2.5 but his numbers were still too high. And then after about 4 months the numbers suddenly went low again and the whole process happened all over.

Because of this my vet said we can’t trust the home test results and that we should judge his treatment based on one reading at 3pm in the vets. I know this is wrong and I will not stop home testing but I will say that I do not do it daily at the moment for various reasons. One being money. My vet would only allow home tests to be done on a alpha-trak which cost about £1 a strip!

He’s back up to 2.5 and the vet wants to increase it soon - I tested this morning before food and his numbers were 6.5. Too low for 2.5! I did give him the dose though I’m so worried - I did it and will watch him all day and do a curve so I can show the vet the results.
I’m so frustrated. Because of money I can’t switch vets, yet I’m not feeling supported or listened to anymore.


I am trying to do the best for my cat and I know you will all recommend testing daily but like I said I can’t afford to. My vet will not take notice of results from any other metre. The vet only charges me every other visit and at a lower price than usual sometimes I can’t find from any other vet locally. money is a big issue for us otherwise I would look around/test daily.

Please can anyone give any advice as to why my cat would be lower first thing in the morning and then higher but still lower in the afternoon say 6.5 at 7am, 22 at 1pm and 17 at 3pm??? but if we give less insulin the first reading goes up really high.
I hope this makes sense.
 
Hi. Have you set up a spreadsheet? If so, please put a link to it in your signature so we can see it (and having other basic info like when your cat was diagnosed and the type of insulin and meter used would also be helpful). If not, please set one up. We need to see the testing history to be able to offer you input.

I suggest you get a human meter that uses much cheaper strips so you can afford to test daily. You need to test before every shot to keep your cat safe, and you need mid-cycle tests whenever possible to know the impact of the dose you give. Being able to test only every once in a while is inviting trouble, not to mention making it much harder to get your cat's blood sugar regulated. If your vet does not want you to test with a human meter, and you cannot reason with him/her, then don't tell him/her! It makes so much more sense to be able to test daily than to not be able to test because you cannot afford strips for a pet meter. The majority of the people here use human meters. It's nice of your vet to only charge you for every other visit, but maybe you would not need so many visits if you could manage this better at home with more testing data. I only take Mia to the vet once a year for an annual exam.

If your cat is having wide swings in numbers, my first thought is that the dose is too high. Of course, I have no real data to base that on, but that is often what happens when the dose is too high.
 
Hello Joysunsun and your diabetic cat.

Have you ever posted on our message board before? I see that you did a single thread back in April 2019.
Can’t get stable/opinion on vet advice please.

Before there were pet meters, everyone including vets used human meters. Will your vet pay for the cost of the test strips for the Alphatrak he insists you use? I doubt it.

It sounded like you already have a human meter. Use that human meter to test with on a daily basis. If your vet insists on "curves" keep the Alphatrak and use that for the curve days.

Joysunsun said:
Because of this my vet said we can’t trust the home test results and that we should judge his treatment based on one reading at 3pm in the vets.
Click to expand...
You already said you know this is incorrect. Have you ever heard of "vet stress"? It's where the BG readings are elevated because you cat is scared to be in a different place than at home.
Because of "vet stress", the single reading at 3 pm at the vet is inaccurate also and a bad precedent to base the dose of insulin on.

Context is important. How long has elapsed between the insulin shot you gave your cat and the 3PM test at your vets office? How many hours? We express time here in a + hours format.

AMPS is the morning pre-shot test. +1 is 1 hour after the shot of insulin, +2 is 2 hours later, etc........
PMPS is the evening pre-shot test. +1 is 1 hour after the shot of insuln, +2 is 2 hours later, etc........

Are you dosing the Prozinc twice a day?

We really need a spreadsheet (SS) to help you better. It only takes a little bit of time to set up our standard format SS. That way, you do not need to "reinvent the wheel". Directions on setting up the signature and the SS are in this link here: New? How You Can Help Us Help You!

After you get the SS setup, I would suggest entering the last week or 2 of test data that you have. Then later, you can enter some older test data as time permits.

I think we can help you. A lot. But we need some more information to go on.
 
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Hi thanks for replying.

I no longer have the human metre. I found it hard to get enough blood for it - I was recommended the one I had by other diabetic cat owners but the volume of blood needed was hard for me to get. The massive plus with the alphatrak is you only need a fraction of the amount of blood. If there’s any like that I am willing to try. Otherwise unfortunately I can only test a few times a week with one curve. I know some will say but that’s dangerous- please respect that I am doing the best I can on extremely low resources.

I’m not sure how to set up a spreadsheet but I will look into this.

the 3 pm appointment is +7 hours after insulin. We had worked out that is the time he usually goes lower from many curves. The vet also asks that he doesn’t have lunch for this test - he always eats lunch otherwise. Seems backwards not to give it to him. It’s not a correct reading.

I’ve been testing today and so far he’s stayed at a good controlled level.

even if I go ahead and work things out without my vet. I want to find out why is he lower before breakfast and insulin? surely he should be higher before another dose? My vet discounts this as is just getting abnormal readings which I think is rubbish.
But if we lower the dose his numbers go whacko high.
He has 2.5 units of prozinc two times a day. 12 hours apart.
As I said he’s symptom free.
 
Deb & Wink said:
Directions on setting up the signature and the SS are in this link here: New? How You Can Help Us Help You!
Click to expand...
Directions for setting up the spreadsheet are in the link above.

Many cats are more active at night and have lower BG numbers during the night. Then their body compensates and brings the numbers back up. Bouncing. It could be why your cat is lower in the morning.

The time when the low or nadir happens does not stay constant. It can vary from cycle to cycle, from day to day. Maybe your cat was more active, maybe he ate a bit more or less food, maybe a lot of different things.
 
Thanks so much for the link I’ll take a look soon.

At night he’s shut in a bedroom - with water, a big bowl of food, (he eats up to half a can over night) litter tray and a bed. He mostly sleeps or looks out of the window. If he’s let out he walks around howling for us to be up, that or he hits you on the face to wake you! He’s got a lot of character!
 
Sun. He’s a lovely boy.

I’ve not managed to make the spread sheet yet (I’m also not well so I don’t have much mental energy) but I have been given permission from my family to test three times a day at the moment.


Is there a link to a dosing chart or can anyone give advice on this?

my vet had him on 2.5 units and he’s meant to stay on that for a week longer. However I tested and found him to be much too low for that dose. Hence persuading to rest regularly at the moment. Hopefully I can continue.

he was 9.9 tonight and I had no idea what to dose so a chart for prozinc would be so helpful. Yet to find one one here.
 
Thanks Deb, someone on the FB group said there was a chart but I believe you, I’ve been searching all evening for one. Thank you for the link.

it was pre evening shot so +12. I gave 1.5 and I’m worried that’s too much. I was too tired to make a decision. My cognitive function isn’t the best at times due to my own poor health. I’ll keep an eye on him. The last two nights it’s been lower than that so I skipped the dose and then the next day preshot it’s been 12 one day and 14 the next. It’s very new for us to have these numbers he’s been in the 20’s for a long time.
He’s odd he will stay high for months and then suddenly go low. This is usually when my vet says stop insulin for a few days and we end up back up high and repeating the process of months being high then suddenly low. I have to get in control of this.

I’ve managed to download the spreadsheet and have put the last few days in and I’ll work out how to upload to here tomorrow.

tha is for replying, I appreciate it a lot.
 
Can you give me a clue as to which facebook group?

How about your first name and the first letter of your last name that you use over there?
I'll try to find your post there, based on that information.
 
Diabetic cat international I believe. I deleted my post, it didn’t get any other replies and don’t like how anyone I’m friends with on Facebook can see.

This morning pre shot he was 19.5 and at his lowest point 13.6. I gave 1.5 units this morning. Much higher than the last few days. I’m due to test soon.

I don’t understand why his numbers are rising after a few days of being lower.

I read that you should stick to a dose for 3 cycles but I didn’t over the last few days because at times he was too low. I feel a bit lost
 
People here will be able to help you more when they see the spreadsheet(SS).
We look for patterns and make decisions based on what we see on the SS.

What do you consider to be a blood glucose reading that is too low?

We'll try to help you find the right path to follow and feel less lost.
 
Hopefully I can get it up next week, I’ll have more recorded then too.

I’ve been told that 5-11 is an ideal reading at the lowest point. I know that 3.8 and anything lower is a hypo. I just don’t know exactly what dose is right based on readings.
 
Joysunsun said:
I just don’t know exactly what dose is right based on readings.
Click to expand...
Neither do we until we see that spreadsheet.

Kind of a catch-22 situation. You don't have the SS set up yet, but need dosing information. We can't see what is going on without the SS so can't suggest a dose.

Have you tried contacting your vet?
 
Hopefully up soon.

No, my vet wouldn’t be happy that I’ve tested let alone lowered the dose. Not actually sure what to tell the vet.
 
"It's easier to ask for forgiveness than it is to ask permission." Grace Hopper

Tell your vet you wanted to keep your cat safe by home testing. It made you too nervous not to know what was going on. Then tell you vet the BG (blood glucose) was too low to give the amount of insulin your vet prescribed.

With no symptoms of feline diabetes, what did the vet base the diagnosis on?

Could your cat have been misdiagnosed?
 
Hi, I simply wanted to make you aware of this.

All the "Sticky" or pinned posts in the Prozinc forum have been updated and there are a couple of new ones.

Highly recommend that everyone using Prozinc or helping those using Prozinc read them thoroughly.

I'll be doing that myself. Been expecting this for some time. Came about a week before I thought it would.
Thanks Marje, and Robert, and especially Djamila for the Modified Prozinc Method. You folks are FANTASTIC!
 
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