pro zic users

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Ken and Sneakers

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Is this were the pro zinc users are? if so I would like to know if anyone is shooting real low numbers like 100 90 80 ect with success. I would like to look at a few spreadsheets if anyone is. Even if you are not shooting that low I would like to see spread sheets with preshots below 200

Thank you

Let me add that I am looking for people not using a sliding scale and shooting 12 hours apart
 
Hi Ken,

Yes, this is where the Prozinc & PZI users are.

We are using Prozinc. I have been having a hard time shooting lower #'s because of my overly healthy fear of hypo but I'm trying. I havn't shot anythin under 100 but hey, have a look at Harleys ss, the lowest I've shot is mid 100's.

Maybe take a look at Joanna & Bix's ss.

Where is your ss, what #'s are you shooting. It might give me a little more confidence.

Also, you can read the threads with dosing advise from my previous threads, Harley has been surfing the blues for almost 2 weeks while I try to wrap my head around shooting lower #'s.
 
Ken, we don't use ProZinc anymore, but you are more than welcome to take a look at Mr Tinkles' SS. We used it for three months.

As far as shooting numbers below 100, I don't think I would attempt that with ProZinc unless you are at a micro-dosing stage and have a lot of data. We never got to a dose that low, so I never tried it. It is common to shoot low PSs with Lantus, but that is a gentler insulin so it is much easier to control the drop.
 
Hi Ken, for most cats, I do not recommend that people shoot below 150. I think there are a small # of people who have shot at lower #s like that, but with cats that are VERY predictable and known to zoom into higher #s very quickly. Sometimes I do shoot Bix at 130 - 150, but that is because he is a hoverer rather than a zoomer, and will sit in #s for a long time before reaching a shootable #, which is not the case with most cats that I've seen here. I don't shoot every 12 hours with him, and I do use a sliding scale. I do not shoot him if he is in non-diabetic #s (I have once or twice around 120, but later thought better of it!).

To get the eyes of the people who have had success with what you're asking about, you might want to try a more specific subject line, and also you might need to post in other forums, maybe Health, or Think Tank if it's a generalized question about can low shooting be done safely with PZI. I'm not sure if the people who have done that check the PZI forum regularly or not.

Robin, I don't think you SHOULD be shooting on those lower PSs! As far as I have been told 150 is the lowest no-shoot level anyone should have with PZI. If someone goes lower than that, it is very much at their own risk, and hopefully only being done when they really know their cat and know that strategy works for them. So far, I don't see any need for it with Harley. The only case IMO is if you get a slightly low PS (over say 130) and don't have time to retest and are leaving for the day and it's a choice of whether to shoot or skip the shot. In those cases I think a token dose, maybe 1/2 or 1/3 of what you might normally shoot seems appropriate. To me the goal with that is not to even try to hit green #s, but just to keep some insulin in his system to tide him over to the next shot. Harley doesn't usually really zoom fast, so basically I would stay away from it. I don't think it's a case at all of your being scared of it, I think you have been taking appropriate steps to be conservative with your dosing and gather data to be sure what you are doing is safe. As long as Harley is doing well and you don't have ketones, there is no need to push yourself to be more aggressive than you feel comfortable with. If I've pushed you, sorry :oops:, my bad!
 
Thank you

Hi
Thank you for all your answers
Joanne you have great numbers and I am happy for your success.
Of course I would never advise anyone to shoot lower numbers without appropriate information
but at the same time I would not set an artificial limit on possibilities because a certain insulin is being used
There was a discussion a long time ago about numbers being below the renal threshold yet still being diabetic and I
do believe in getting the numbers as low as safely possible
A while back Mylissa and Paul Kyle (don't know if she is still here) use to get lantus numbers and curves using caninsulin(vetsullin) and the name of the insulin intimidated people even though her numbers would have had you guess she was using lantus. It io the information and numbers that you get that counts.
You did write
#s like that, but with cats that are VERY predictable and known to zoom into higher #s very quickly. Sometimes I do shoot Bix at 130 - 150, but that is because he is a hoverer rather than a zoomer,
You shoot at different hours via hodgkins using a sliding scale. It seems tghat most here are doing thatThat is much different then shooting 12/12 with consistency in dosing so I cannot judge or limit progress using one style versus another as results can be completely different I am still a believer in consistency first and overlap with a sliding scale being give after you have the information that saiys it is warrented SLGS seems to work for me and with whomever I am involved
.
As for me I regularly shot pzi (bcp) with preshots of 120 with much success but could never really have success shooting numbers below that. The action of prozinc maybe different just like the action with the same insulin on different cats can be different. With numbers now coming in the blues for someone, I thought it may help to see some examples of the action to have a bigger general picture. Thanks again everyone and best of luck and health to all of you
 
Yeah, it may be there are good reasons for doing it - my view is just based on what I've been told since I got here. Not an oldtimer & I think many/most PZIers had gone OTJ or jumped ship before I got here, so my perspective is limited. :) Unfortunately there aren't too many of us around who are posting advice, so there may well be lots of good options that aren't really getting covered. I've put out some pleas before for more PZI advisors, but no luck. If you have any #s and/or advice to share, I'm sure that would be welcome!!!

I think most here are shooting mostly 12/12, we are an exception because Bix is typically too low for me to feel comfortable shooting at +12.

Things have kind of gone back and forth some on sliding scale here. I usually encourage newbies to stick with a steady dose since that makes it so much easier to interpret the data, and until you have that, it's hard to figure out what the scale should be. Some have used sliding scale though and really like it. I only just started experimenting with it recently, though I'm a "fine-tuner" (obsessive dose changer? :lol: ), so even when I was supposedly shooting a steady dose, it rarely stayed steady for long.
 
I for many reasons will not get into the sliding scale versus 2 shots a day debate. ;-) I also find it much easier to interprut data on 2 shots a day

As far as oldtimers and newbies go for many reasons it just doesn't matter. Pro zinc is relatively new and what was done with BCP or idexx pzi has no more bearing on what will happen with prozinc then lantus does. I do however believe that once you start using an insulin you should forget about which insulin it is. All that matters is how your cat is reacting to the insulin and the numbers. I believe it is helpful to look at progress and spreadsheets of many cats on even different insulin to guide you
forward
If you have any #s and/or advice to share, I'm sure that would be welcome!!!
Well if you want I can link the ss of the pro zinc user so you can follow along. Mind you that my advice was to start at 1 bid and then after the beginning craziness to 1 1/2 bid lower to 1 and 1/2 when we hit certain numbers for the first time and work from there In the first few weeks getting consistency with times shooting and dosing from this person was a challange up until a few days ago when we had a conversation.
Also this person is a 1st year college student. When she is not available her father will shoot but will not test
I guess this will help cause this person just shot a 108 this am and hopefully will do a spotcheck or 2 today
This is prozinc
https://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key ... y=CIbmqeEO

This is a lantus user. It would be easier to get her to do a root canal over a spotcheck but her cat is unbelieveably resilient and has the magic touch She can even go away and have someone shoot these type of numbers blind (scares the hell out of me!)
She had a cat unregulated for about 3 years before we hooked up
https://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key ... aTlE&hl=en
 
Ken and Sneakers said:
This is a lantus user. It would be easier to get her to do a root canal over a spotcheck but her cat is unbelieveably resilient and has the magic touch She can even go away and have someone shoot these type of numbers blind (scares the hell out of me!)
Click to expand...

Resilient, no doubt. Shooting 3.75U on a 44; shooting anything on a 44. Hope the cat's luck holds.
 
[quote Resilient, no doubt. Shooting 3.75U on a 44; shooting anything on a 44. Hope the cat's luck holds.[/quote]

First off let me say that all the warning were given time and time again
She was giving 7 units bid blind for years with an unregulated cat
She was given this boards addy and told to come here
She was also told that many many many more spotchecks should be done to protect her cat

Could you imagine shooting 60's a few years ago? Would /is that said to someone shooting a 60 on the lantus board?


Although not enough in the last few months I think I read 7 spotchecks between +1 and +3 with the majority
at around +1 All numbers were higher then the preshot.
Before that the 1 time a shot was delayed, the numbers went up 70+ points in 2 hours

Shots have been skipped in the past and in the past it has shown that insulin is needed
Whether insulin will be needed in the future I do not know but that is her hope.
She is in the process of reducing the dose albeit a little bit slow for my taste.
Do I have a problem with her shooting a 44?
Absolutely not.
Do I have a problem with her doing this without more spotchecks and safety precautions?
Absolutely
She does have some history though and is using what she has learned from her cat's history and moving forward from what I can see
She knows what her cat was like and how her cat felt before regulation for years. She knows what her cat is like now and how he acts now.
I wouldn't say to this woman or about this woman that I hope her luck or her cat's luck holds out
I would say she is strong and determined just like many others on this board and has done a great job
 
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