Pre-Surgery dose ?

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asoolty

asoolty

Member Since 2010
Noni is scheduled for surgery on the 31 to remove her swollen nipple. and a possible spay (as her vet will decide during the operation)

she asked me to cut off food 12 hrs before operation, the question is: how can i give her the usual insulin dose if shes not gonna eat anything ? nailbite_smile



the surgery @ 1 PM , her morning dose around 10 in the morning ??
 
We have had Smokey in for surgery and under anesthesia quite a bit over the last year. We have almost always been instructed to give half a dose if she is still with us at shot time and to send the insulin with her if we drop her off way before shot time.
 
Melanie and Smokey said:
We have had Smokey in for surgery and under anesthesia quite a bit over the last year. We have almost always been instructed to give half a dose if she is still with us at shot time and to send the insulin with her if we drop her off way before shot time.
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thanks for your reply.

her pre-shot reading is usually between 8-10 even half dose without food will keep me worried .. i really dont know
 
I gave J.D. a half dose before he had dental surgery, but he was in the 400s that morning.
I would think it would depend upon her BG numbers the morning of her surgery. You might want to skip.

Also, If she'll be home by PMPS, I would not give the vets the insulin and would instruct them not to give her any insulin (of their own) while she's there. I have heard that the anesthesia can have an affect on the blood glucose and make it drop, and she could drop even later that night when she's home. I gave a reduced dose the night J.D. got home.
And only feed her little bits at a time when she gets home. She will be starving probably, but I have heard that their stomachs are sensitive after anesthesia and you don't want her to throw up the food and not be able to keep any down.

Please post the day of surgery, so we can send good surgery and quick recovery vines to NoNitta.

(((HUGS)))
 
Hi, Bertie has had 2 dentals. I skipped the morning dose both times. We just carried on with the next shot as normal. There were no problems...
 
I just looked at your spreadsheet. Definitely talk to your vet, but you are on low enough dose and have numbers not too crazy high that your vet may say to just skip the insulin that morning. We are a high dose kitty, so skipping a shot completely is not good. I think I remember skipping for one sedation and its one of the few times she cleared 400 so we don't skip anymore. Every cat is different and every vet's procedures are different so you want to make sure you do what works best with what they will be doing with her that day.

I have heard that the anesthesia can have an affect on the blood glucose and make it drop,...
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Yes, we have experienced this more than once with Smokey. You definitely want to be monitoring the next couple days after surgery.
 
Melanie and Smokey said:
We have had Smokey in for surgery and under anesthesia quite a bit over the last year. We have almost always been instructed to give half a dose if she is still with us at shot time and to send the insulin with her if we drop her off way before shot time.
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Vet asked me to prepare a 24 hr pre-operation curve, and about the pre operation dose she didn't really give a straight answer, she just said that the pre operation stress might higher her numbers, but during operation it will drop down as she will be calm during sedation.

but the question is without food for 12 hrs how can i give her the dose, because with insulin its important to eat ???
 
Larry and Kitties said:
What does the vet say? My vet, like Melinie's says 1/2 does if BG is when it normally is.
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she said nothing, when i asked about the dose there was no straight answer, she only asked for a 24 hr pre operation curve. that i should prepare starting from tonight .

and also asked me to provide her with the insulin i use for her to bring with me
 
Dyana said:
I gave J.D. a half dose before he had dental surgery, but he was in the 400s that morning.
I would think it would depend upon her BG numbers the morning of her surgery. You might want to skip.

Also, If she'll be home by PMPS, I would not give the vets the insulin and would instruct them not to give her any insulin (of their own) while she's there. I have heard that the anesthesia can have an affect on the blood glucose and make it drop, and she could drop even later that night when she's home. I gave a reduced dose the night J.D. got home.
And only feed her little bits at a time when she gets home. She will be starving probably, but I have heard that their stomachs are sensitive after anesthesia and you don't want her to throw up the food and not be able to keep any down.

Please post the day of surgery, so we can send good surgery and quick recovery vines to NoNitta.

(((HUGS)))
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the surgery is on the 31st .. it will be a true Halloween for us @-)

i'm worried about food as well , if she didn't eat for long time she starts vomiting .. just water vomiting.. but the vet told me not to be worried as they will give her liquid drip as she arrives. but its important for the blood test to be on empty stomach.

i might skip the morning dose if her AMPS is not too high .. and i will take her insulin with me for any emergency
 
Elizabeth and Bertie said:
Hi Bertie has had 2 dentals. I skipped the morning dose both times. We just carried on with the next shot as normal. There were no problems...
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yes i think i will do the same .. hopefully she doesn't get stressed out before surgery .. then everything will be fine
 
Manny had his dental last week and I didn't dose him that morning due to no food. Carried on as normal. The antibiotics do seem to be messing with his numbers. :(
 
kphmitten said:
Manny had his dental last week and I didn't dose him that morning due to no food. Carried on as normal. The antibiotics do seem to be messing with his numbers. :(
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I had to run to vet this morning at 8 am, her number dropped down badly :( it was 2.1mmol/L i think its lower than a 40mg/dl , all because of antibiotic thank god she finally finished 5 days so i can stop it, makes her really weak. i kept giving her honey, and at the time the vet was open the tested her there and it was 9 mmol/L ! vet asked me to skip her next dose that supposed to be @ 10 in the morning and gave her Maropitant injection to stop the vomiting as we vomited earlier 4 hours after her PM dose.

and yet tomorrow is her operation ... i want all this to pass by quickly so me /she can relax again
 
(((Hugs to you, and loving long pets to NoNItta))).
And calming vines to you both. I hope the surgery goes absolutely perfectly tomorrow.
 
Dyana said:
(((Hugs to you, and loving long pets to NoNItta))).
And calming vines to you both. I hope the surgery goes absolutely perfectly tomorrow.
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Thanks dear i really need that right now, will keep you updated ;-)
 
Don't forget, only little bites of food after coming home. You don't want her to eat too quickly as the anesthesia can make their tummys extra sensitive, and can make the BGs lower or drop, too. Little bits at a time. She will be starving, but don't give in.

I will keep you and NoNitta in my thoughts all day, tomorrow. Please let us know how it goes. Best of Luck with the Best Surgeon and the Best Surgury and the Best Outcome. Fingers all crossed here.
 
Paws crossed for NoNitta's successful surgery.
funny-cats-hugging-smiling.jpg
 
Dyana said:
Paws crossed for NoNitta's successful surgery.
funny-cats-hugging-smiling.jpg
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The surgery was re-scheduled :(

as i told the vet that Nonitta's went very low a day before and i had to give honey because antibiotic made her lose appetite and the vet nearby that i had to go for emergency the other day asked me to skip a dose or two.

so when we she check this morning before doing the general profile and blood tests. her glucose went up to 378 so i gave her the AM shot !! so i think antibiotic is missing her numbers up, vet asked me to wait for a week. so she picked Wed the 7th for her surgery. its next week and asked me to keep an eye on Noni, and creat a new curve .

now it was her PM shot time . so i just checked an hour a go and her glucose was 63 only, now i had to skip the PM shot !!
 
I just re check her glucose now +2 it's 122 I'm still not sure if I should give the PM shot now ! Or if its ok to skip as yesterday she went 37 ;(
 
If you haven't fed yet, you could stall. Maybe she needs a dose reduction. I wish your spreadsheet was up to date, so I could see it. Please keep us updated, okay?
 
asoolty said:
I just re check her glucose now +2 it's 122 I'm still not sure if I should give the PM shot now ! Or if its ok to skip as yesterday she went 37 ;(
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Did you reduce the dose this morning because of that 37? What dose is she on?
 
Dyana said:
asoolty said:
I just re check her glucose now +2 it's 122 I'm still not sure if I should give the PM shot now ! Or if its ok to skip as yesterday she went 37 ;(
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Did you reduce the dose this morning because of that 37? What dose is she on?
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37 was yesterday's morning , vet asked me to skip a dose or two. Now this morning she was 378 I gave her the normal dose I didn't reduce.

So now it's the PMPS that is 122 , should I reduce or skip ?? Really confused
 
With a 37, she is telling you that she is getting too much insulin, and you should reduce her normal dose.
What dose is she currently on?
 
Dyana said:
With a 37, she is telling you that she is getting too much insulin, and you should reduce her normal dose.
What dose is she currently on?
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4 ml / twice a day
 
I'm trying to get some more eyes on your condo.

The 37 earned a dose reduction to 3.75 units.

How long ago did she eat? And are you able to be up to monitor her tonight if you give her her insulin?
Also, do you have plenty of strips and food, both LC and HC and maybe some honey or other syrup, just in case?

All of these questions need to be answered, before we can help you.

Is she acting fine?
 
Dyana said:
I'm trying to get some more eyes on your condo.

The 37 earned a dose reduction to 3.75 units.

How long ago did she eat? And are you able to be up to monitor her tonight if you give her her insulin?
Also, do you have plenty of strips and food, both LC and HC and maybe some honey or other syrup, just in case?

All of these questions need to be answered, before we can help you.

Is she acting fine?
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It's so difficult to measure 3.75 the syringe that only available here is the 100 units that is divided to 10s - in each 10 there is 5 lines (each represent 2 units) . I don't know how to explain this hope it's clear for you what I mean.


As of tonight it's already 2:10 am and I need to wake up 7 am in the morning . Haven't slept for two night because of the stress ;( now I have everything available food , strips and honey.

Although I prefer to give the shot in tr morning when I wake up. Do u suggest that I go for 2 units ?? And do the curve .

And will I have enough time til the day of surgery to make her stable ?



And yes she's acting fine , eating and Everything


Thanks a lot , I don't know what would I do without your help here
 
Welcome back!!

Any time your cat's test numbers are below 50, you want to reduce the dose by 0.25u. Since Noni had a test at 37, you need to reduce the dose from 4.0u to 3.75u. You can give the 3.75u tonight. However, without having more information on what Noni's usual test numbers look like, it's very hard to offer good recommendations. Have you given shots with her numbers in this range in the past? Do you have strips and high carb food available in case you need it? Can you be available to monitor her BG levels? If you don't have supplies and you aren't going to be available to monitor then you either need to skip the shot or give a reduced dose of insulin.
 
If you're that tired and it's so late, and you need to sleep, then why don't you skip the dose tonight.
I think you definitely need to reduce the dose, so that you can shoot consistantly.
I hope that we can make her more stable for her surgery next week.

Do you think you could just fill in her spreadsheet for the past 2 weeks or so, so we can help you better?

I know you need to sleep, so maybe can you fill in the spreadsheet, tomorrow morning when you wake up? Would that be doable for you? It would really be a big help.
 
Dyana said:
If you're that tired and it's so late, and you need to sleep, then why don't you skip the dose tonight.
I think you definitely need to reduce the dose, so that you can shoot consistantly.
I hope that we can make her more stable for her surgery next week.

Do you think you could just fill in her spreadsheet for the past 2 weeks or so, so we can help you better?

I know you need to sleep, so maybe can you fill in the spreadsheet, tomorrow morning when you wake up? Would that be doable for you? It would really be a big help.
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I only have little numbers with me , as I told you I just came back from Canada, and kept Noni with my sister so there only little numbers I have now, I am workin on a new curve now ! I will keep you posted, will add what I have tomorrow an let you know.

Q. Is it possible to go one shot a day?? I read that earlier in lantis website, as it is long acting and last 18/24 hrs.
 
Just did a last test , it's 13.5 = 243 ( it's +3 passing her PM shot time ) yet no insulin is giving
 
Please correct me if I am wrong.
Your syringes have markings for every 2 units only, is that right?

I now use calipers to help me with measuring doses. I don't suppose you would have any of those.

If your syringes only have markings for every 2 units and you were measuring to the 2nd marking that would be the 4 units? Could you try to measure to about 1/4 of the way between the 2 unit mark and the 4 unit mark? I'm just thinking. I would like you to be able to measure consistantly...and to give the insulin consistantly. How was NoNitta acting when you took her to the ER? Sometimes cats that go real low, will be extra sensitive to the insulin the next time.

How many hours until your next shot is due, is it 7 hours or 8 hours? I can set an alarm to wake up and check on you, if you want to post her test numbers, and we can figure something out. I would not go back to the 4 units, though.

Sorry, we almost cross posted, but I see your latest question. Lantus works best with cats when given 2 times per day every 12 hours. Are you able to do that every 12 hours?

Let me know when the next shot is due, and I'll wake up to check on you, okay?
 
Aseel, you need you sleep. Why don't you just skip the shot tonight, and we talk tomorrow, okay?

Gather your test numbers together and we'll look at them tomorrow.
 
Dyana said:
Please correct me if I am wrong.
Your syringes have markings for every 2 units only, is that right?

I now use calipers to help me with measuring doses. I don't suppose you would have any of those.

If your syringes only have markings for every 2 units and you were measuring to the 2nd marking that would be the 4 units? Could you try to measure to about 1/4 of the way between the 2 unit mark and the 4 unit mark? I'm just thinking. I would like you to be able to measure consistantly...and to give the insulin consistantly. How was NoNitta acting when you took her to the ER? Sometimes cats that go real low, will be extra sensitive to the insulin the next time.

How many hours until your next shot is due, is it 7 hours or 8 hours? I can set an alarm to wake up and check on you, if you want to post her test numbers, and we can figure something out. I would not go back to the 4 units, though.

Sorry, we almost cross posted, but I see your latest question. Lantus works best with cats when given 2 times per day every 12 hours. Are you able to do that every 12 hours?

Let me know when the next shot is due, and I'll wake up to check on you, okay?
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That's right 2 units, I can try tomorrow with the 2 1/4 I will check if its easy,

And no it's fin to give 2 times a day I've been doing that for so long now and have no problem.

Her next shot is after 8.15 hrs from now , I will post the number in the morning for you am hour before the shot time and let u know .. I appreciate what your are doing for me and Noni, she sends you many thanks


Have a good night , and happy Halloween to u and the family
 
Okay, I will be up in 7 and 1/2 hours then, to check on you.

And you may need to shoot more like 3 3/4 or 3 1/2 units. We'll talk tomorrow. Sweet Dreams.
 
Dyana said:
Okay, I will be up in 7 and 1/2 hours then, to check on you.

And you may need to shoot more like 3 3/4 or 3 1/2 units. We'll talk tomorrow. Sweet Dreams.
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Good morning dear Dyana,

just had her meal and got her tested, its 316.8, still one 1 hour until its time for her next shot
 
I sent you a PM, since I couldn't stay logged on a little while ago.

I would suggest that you put as many numbers as you have in your spreadsheet. Just skip some blank lines, and then add the dates and whatever numbers you have, and then open a new post over in the Lantus Tight Regulation forum where you will have more people experienced using Lantus insulin to help you all the time.

If you remember how, you would want to link this post (so they can see what we have talked about) in the new post in Lantus. You would do that by copying the URL address from this post and pasting it in the new post using the URL button.

Last night as I was trying to go to sleep, I was thinking maybe you could make a sample syringe by drawing a line on one of your unused syringes with black marker for your new dose, and always compare the sample syringe to your new dose. It will help you when you don't have the marks you need on the syringe. I have done this often myself.

Your syringes are marked with 2 unit markings. Between the first marking which is the 2 unit line and the second marking which is the 4 unit line, try figure out where the middle of those two lines would be and that would be approximately 3 units. I think you want to give her 3 1/2 units as 3 3/4 units might be harder to estimate.
Maybe you can draw a line with black marker at what you think is 3 units (right between the 2 and 4 unit marks), and then draw another line at what you think is 3 1/2 units (right between your new line and the 4 unit mark).
Does that sound doable to you?

I'm hoping to go back to bed, for a few minutes, when I can.
 
Dyana said:
I sent you a PM, since I couldn't stay logged on a little while ago.

I would suggest that you put as many numbers as you have in your spreadsheet. Just skip some blank lines, and then add the dates and whatever numbers you have, and then open a new post over in the Lantus Tight Regulation forum where you will have more people experienced using Lantus insulin to help you all the time.

If you remember how, you would want to link this post (so they can see what we have talked about) in the new post in Lantus. You would do that by copying the URL address from this post and pasting it in the new post using the URL button.

Last night as I was trying to go to sleep, I was thinking maybe you could make a sample syringe by drawing a line on one of your unused syringes with black marker for your new dose, and always compare the sample syringe to your new dose. It will help you when you don't have the marks you need on the syringe. I have done this often myself.

Your syringes are marked with 2 unit markings. Between the first marking which is the 2 unit line and the second marking which is the 4 unit line, try figure out where the middle of those two lines would be and that would be approximately 3 units. I think you want to give her 3 1/2 units as 3 3/4 units might be harder to estimate.
Maybe you can draw a line with black marker at what you think is 3 units (right between the 2 and 4 unit marks), and then draw another line at what you think is 3 1/2 units (right between your new line and the 4 unit mark).
Does that sound doable to you?

I'm hoping to go back to bed, for a few minutes, when I can.
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so sorry that you had to wake up for us ..i will try to do that as the lines are already small .. very little space between 2 to 4 .. but will see what can i do.

meanwhile i should give 3.5 if possible to measure.. its due in 15 min
 
I'm sorry it's so hard to measure. Is there any possibility that you can get some syringes with 1 unit marks or even ultimately with 1/2 unit marks?

Maybe, in the future, you can go to a store that sells tools and buy some calipers like these: http://www.harborfreight.com/4-inch-digital-caliper-47256.html I don't use the lines on the syringes anymore, I use the calipers to measure the dose. It's so much more accurate.
 
Dyana said:
I'm sorry it's so hard to measure. Is there any possibility that you can get some syringes with 1 unit marks or even ultimately with 1/2 unit marks?

Maybe, in the future, you can go to a store that sells tools and buy some calipers like these: http://www.harborfreight.com/4-inch-digital-caliper-47256.html I don't use the lines on the syringes anymore, I use the calipers to measure the dose. It's so much more accurate.
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i will check it out on amazon, if you have any link on amazon it would be helpful , so i don't order the wrong one.
 
Dyana said:
Aseel, you are still using Lantus, right?
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yes its Lantus still


just done working on the spreadsheet.. i will add few tests of todays numbers and add them to the sheet ..


the best i could do is to measure in the middle of 2 to 4 - i dont know if that counts as 3 or 3.5 i'm really not sure

P.S you can take a look at the sheet attached
 

Attachments

Ah, I see the spreadsheet now. Thanks for doing that.

Can you post in the Lantus forum, and bring your spreadsheet with you, so that others can help to advise you?
I have to log off in 5 minutes.

Did you make a sample syringe, so that you can measure the same dose tonight and in the future?
 
asoolty said:
Dyana said:
Aseel, you are still using Lantus, right?
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yes its Lantus still


just done working on the spreadsheet.. i will add few tests of todays numbers and add them to the sheet ..


the best i could do is to measure in the middle of 2 to 4 - i dont know if that counts as 3 or 3.5 i'm really not sure

P.S you can take a look at the sheet attached
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If you measured in the middle of the 2 and 4 unit marks, then that would be 3 units. I would change your ss to say that.
 
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