? Post Dental Surgery BG Readings?

[Nicole999]

Hi there,

My 9 year old male cat, Sam, recently came out of remission last month due to dental disease/tooth resorption. We weren’t able to regulate him prior to his dental appointment and he consistently had high numbers. Last Thursday (Sept 23rd), he had all but two of his pre-molars/molars removed, as well as one of his tiny front teeth. Since then, his recovery has been going very well, he’s eating and behaving normally, but his numbers are still in the high teens and into the twenties, even with increasing his insulin dose. I’m new here, but I haven’t attached any info on that here, I’m not needing help with his dose or anything, I’m just wondering if it’s typical to see elevated readings for a period of time while his mouth heals? I spoke to the vet about it, but they didn’t really have any answers for me. He has his post-dental check up next weekend, so we’ll be able to check for any underlying infection, etc. Can anyone with experience with this tell me if regulation can be difficult during recovery? For reference, his diet is entirely raw and outside of the post-dental meds and his regular insulin, he receives Optagest Digestive Aid and has no other underlying conditions. I appreciate any info, thank you!

-Nicole

 

[Sienne and Gabby (GA)]

There can be a few things that may be contributing to higher numbers. If your kitty's mouth is still sore, the pain may be causing his numbers to be higher than desirable. Hopefully, your vet provided you with pain meds.

Did the vet get post-procedure X-rays? With the amount of extractions, it would be very advisable to get those X-rays. It there were any shards of a tooth remaining, it could cause pain, inflammation, or be a source of infection. Any of those issues would cause a rise in numbers.

 

[Nicole999]

There can be a few things that may be contributing to higher numbers. If your kitty's mouth is still sore, the pain may be causing his numbers to be higher than desirable. Hopefully, your vet provided you with pain meds.

Did the vet get post-procedure X-rays? With the amount of extractions, it would be very advisable to get those X-rays. It there were any shards of a tooth remaining, it could cause pain, inflammation, or be a source of infection. Any of those issues would cause a rise in numbers.

Thank you so much for the response. She did provide pain meds for the first three days. I’m actually not sure about the post-procedure xrays - thank you for that advice, I will make sure they do those at his follow-up!

 

[Candy&Company]

Pain, infection, trauma, etc. can definitely rise BS numbers, which I've learned from my vet office, even though they're good, they're kinda dumb on. I've had to learn this on my own. My cat Mao wasn't diabetic but I used to test him along with his sister, Fena who WAS diabetic, and yeah in November of 2018 his BS shot up with his dental issues/pain. He'd drool A LOT, have his tongue peeking/poking out the front of his mouth, wouldn't want to eat a lot of pate food at a time, pawed at his mouth, etc.

So I got him a dental. A couple things...

1.) What pain killer did they prescribe? My vet gave Mao "bupe" as I call it, "Buprenorphine" as it's actually called. He got it pre-measured in oral syringes before his appointment, and after. In testing his BS, while the "bupe" did help his pain his actual BS levels didn't go down by that much, maybe 10-15 points?

2.) How long are the suture threads? After my Mao's dental, he was healing well but the suture threads were too long and they aggravated/bothered him while eating, and not. I told the vet and they managed to "clip" the excess.

3.) You said your baby is on an entirely "raw" diet... can you explain what that diet is, how it's prepared, or what the brand, etc? I'm not against a raw diet, but since cats have so many dental issues I DO advocate that food be as ground up/pureed as possible. When Mao went in for his dental, I was in the process of switching him to wet food pate, along with his sister Fena (the diabetic) and the vet told me, and I quote, "Oh losing teeth won't hurt them, they'll just swallow the food whole!" Like this was a good thing?

Mouths and paws and primarily how cats experience the world, beyond the usual like eyesight, nose and hearing. After a dental his mouth is going to be VERY tender, plus stress, which is going to notch up his BS. If his food isn't ground small enough, he might be experiencing tummy troubles and notching it up further. I'd do the following:

a.) Grind the HELL out of whatever raw food he's getting, unless it's already in pate-ish form.

b.) Add water to the food. Extra water is a huge benefit to cats, especially ones in pain. Pain, stress, pain meds, can all conspire to dehydration.

c.) I'd definitely push for a blood test/panel. Cats can eat raw, and even rotten food and be okay but with open wounds like in the mouth, some bacteria might make a home which you DON'T want.

Let us know how your baby does, but yeah, mouth trauma can definitely cause BS issues. Also, if they give him an antibiotic (orally like in the penicillin family) I'd look into a prebiotic for him. Under the skin antibiotics usually don't result in diarrhea but a prebiotic is also a good bet. Is that what Optagest Digestive Aid is?

 

[Nicole999]

Pain, infection, trauma, etc. can definitely rise BS numbers, which I've learned from my vet office, even though they're good, they're kinda dumb on. I've had to learn this on my own. My cat Mao wasn't diabetic but I used to test him along with his sister, Fena who WAS diabetic, and yeah in November of 2018 his BS shot up with his dental issues/pain. He'd drool A LOT, have his tongue peeking/poking out the front of his mouth, wouldn't want to eat a lot of pate food at a time, pawed at his mouth, etc.

So I got him a dental. A couple things...

1.) What pain killer did they prescribe? My vet gave Mao "bupe" as I call it, "Buprenorphine" as it's actually called. He got it pre-measured in oral syringes before his appointment, and after. In testing his BS, while the "bupe" did help his pain his actual BS levels didn't go down by that much, maybe 10-15 points?

2.) How long are the suture threads? After my Mao's dental, he was healing well but the suture threads were too long and they aggravated/bothered him while eating, and not. I told the vet and they managed to "clip" the excess.

3.) You said your baby is on an entirely "raw" diet... can you explain what that diet is, how it's prepared, or what the brand, etc? I'm not against a raw diet, but since cats have so many dental issues I DO advocate that food be as ground up/pureed as possible. When Mao went in for his dental, I was in the process of switching him to wet food pate, along with his sister Fena (the diabetic) and the vet told me, and I quote, "Oh losing teeth won't hurt them, they'll just swallow the food whole!" Like this was a good thing?

Mouths and paws and primarily how cats experience the world, beyond the usual like eyesight, nose and hearing. After a dental his mouth is going to be VERY tender, plus stress, which is going to notch up his BS. If his food isn't ground small enough, he might be experiencing tummy troubles and notching it up further. I'd do the following:

a.) Grind the HELL out of whatever raw food he's getting, unless it's already in pate-ish form.

b.) Add water to the food. Extra water is a huge benefit to cats, especially ones in pain. Pain, stress, pain meds, can all conspire to dehydration.

c.) I'd definitely push for a blood test/panel. Cats can eat raw, and even rotten food and be okay but with open wounds like in the mouth, some bacteria might make a home which you DON'T want.

Let us know how your baby does, but yeah, mouth trauma can definitely cause BS issues. Also, if they give him an antibiotic (orally like in the penicillin family) I'd look into a prebiotic for him. Under the skin antibiotics usually don't result in diarrhea but a prebiotic is also a good bet. Is that what Optagest Digestive Aid is?

Thank you so much for this response! He did receive bupe, and tolerated it well, and it was also in premeasured syringes. It definitely did seem to help the pain. The sutute threads aren’t super visible so I don’t think that’s an issue.

His raw diet is two brands, Red Dog Blue Kat and Tollden Farms - both are Canadian, that’s where I’m located. Both are ground really finely, so the texture is basically like mush, which I think has made it a lot easier for him to eat. He normally also gets freeze-dried meat as a treat when we test his BG, but until his mouth heals he’s just been getting a small bit of his regular food. They did the standard blood panel prior to surgery and it didn’t show anything concerning, but I will definitely have them do another in addition to the xrays at his follow-up.

The Optagest is a prebiotic, it’s been incredibly helpful for his digestion; the bone content in small game animals (rabbit, turkey, etc) can cause really dry, painful stools so that was why we started him on it, and the difference has been amazing. We also did a round of antibiotics pre-surgery, to clear up any existing infection and I think being on the prebiotic helped to keep him from having any gastrointestinal issues at the time.

This is all fairly new to me. When he was initially diagnosed about 18 months ago, he was super easy to regulate and he went into remission after about a month on insulin, and remained in remission until just recently, at the end of August. At the moment, without having the follow-up, I assume the elevated numbers are related to the inflammation/trauma to his mouth from the extractions, but I’ve seen a few people say they saw a decrease in BG fairly quickly and I was a little disappointed that that’s not what’s happening yet for Sam. But I know every cat is different, and patience is the key.

 

[Candy&Company]

Thank you so much for this response! He did receive bupe, and tolerated it well, and it was also in premeasured syringes. It definitely did seem to help the pain. The sutute threads aren’t super visible so I don’t think that’s an issue.

You're more than welcome! Yeah "bupe" seems to be a common one for dental I've found, but did I read a previous post of yours right that they ONLY have you 3 days worth AFTER his extractions? I have a problem with that, because 3 days is NOT enough time. Preliminary healing, sure but for my Mao I raised a stink and got him 10 days worth of bupe. As for the threads not being "super visible" to you, they weren't to me either, but at home I kept seeing him pawing his mouth, etc. So just be sure to mention it on check up. Threads should be cut as close as possible, and I would DEFINITELY ask for more bupe for your baby. Like I said, 10 days at LEAST. It hurts, it aches, it throbs. I've been there, LOL.

His raw diet is two brands, Red Dog Blue Kat and Tollden Farms - both are Canadian, that’s where I’m located. Both are ground really finely, so the texture is basically like mush, which I think has made it a lot easier for him to eat. He normally also gets freeze-dried meat as a treat when we test his BG, but until his mouth heals he’s just been getting a small bit of his regular food. They did the standard blood panel prior to surgery and it didn’t show anything concerning, but I will definitely have them do another in addition to the xrays at his follow-up.

I'm not familiar with those brands, but I HAVE heard of them. Can you tell me what they're primarily made of? Rabbit, chicken, turkey, bison, etc? The mush texture is GREAT, I'd suggest adding extra water to it if you can. One thing I've always had a problem with, when it comes to cats, is water intake. EVERYONE and their mother always says they get the most from their prey, which is true for OUTDOOR or WILD cats and alot of them don't live long regardless, excluding cars, wildlife, etc. I'm a BIG proponent of adding water to a cats diet by adding to their food. Definitely have a water bowl or water fountain set aside for them, but add water to the food ITSELF and it makes a world of difference, in my experience.

I'd agree on asking for follow up x-rays, and even another blood panel. Freeze dried treats, on top of a raw diet with only a water bowl off to the side? I'd suggest again either adding water to the raw food every time, or adding water to the freeze dried treats.

The Optagest is a prebiotic, it’s been incredibly helpful for his digestion; the bone content in small game animals (rabbit, turkey, etc) can cause really dry, painful stools so that was why we started him on it, and the difference has been amazing. We also did a round of antibiotics pre-surgery, to clear up any existing infection and I think being on the prebiotic helped to keep him from having any gastrointestinal issues at the time.

That's good, I'm glad Optagest us helping. Yeah honestly you don't want your cat struggling with stool issues. The older they get, the harder that is on their systems and the more likely they are for kidney stones, bladder stones, chronic constipation, etc.

This is all fairly new to me. When he was initially diagnosed about 18 months ago, he was super easy to regulate and he went into remission after about a month on insulin, and remained in remission until just recently, at the end of August. At the moment, without having the follow-up, I assume the elevated numbers are related to the inflammation/trauma to his mouth from the extractions, but I’ve seen a few people say they saw a decrease in BG fairly quickly and I was a little disappointed that that’s not what’s happening yet for Sam. But I know every cat is different, and patience is the key.

Yeah my girl Fena was diagnosed at the end of August 2018 and was in remission by early December 2018. But things can change on a dime, so it's good you keep a good track of how your Sam is doing. He's JUST out of a major procedure so... I'd recommend:

1.) Argue for more bupe! 10 days supply, 2x a day.

2.) Add water to his raw food. You can start with adding a tablespoon or two at a time, then work your way up.

3.) Keep your prebiotic, and talk with your vet about suture length, get those panels/x-rays and let us know how everything looks/is going.



We're here for you, and good luck! Love on Sam for me! xx

 

[Nicole999]

You're more than welcome! Yeah "bupe" seems to be a common one for dental I've found, but did I read a previous post of yours right that they ONLY have you 3 days worth AFTER his extractions? I have a problem with that, because 3 days is NOT enough time. Preliminary healing, sure but for my Mao I raised a stink and got him 10 days worth of bupe. As for the threads not being "super visible" to you, they weren't to me either, but at home I kept seeing him pawing his mouth, etc. So just be sure to mention it on check up. Threads should be cut as close as possible, and I would DEFINITELY ask for more bupe for your baby. Like I said, 10 days at LEAST. It hurts, it aches, it throbs. I've been there, LOL.

I'm not familiar with those brands, but I HAVE heard of them. Can you tell me what they're primarily made of? Rabbit, chicken, turkey, bison, etc? The mush texture is GREAT, I'd suggest adding extra water to it if you can. One thing I've always had a problem with, when it comes to cats, is water intake. EVERYONE and their mother always says they get the most from their prey, which is true for OUTDOOR or WILD cats and alot of them don't live long regardless, excluding cars, wildlife, etc. I'm a BIG proponent of adding water to a cats diet by adding to their food. Definitely have a water bowl or water fountain set aside for them, but add water to the food ITSELF and it makes a world of difference, in my experience.

I'd agree on asking for follow up x-rays, and even another blood panel. Freeze dried treats, on top of a raw diet with only a water bowl off to the side? I'd suggest again either adding water to the raw food every time, or adding water to the freeze dried treats.

That's good, I'm glad Optagest us helping. Yeah honestly you don't want your cat struggling with stool issues. The older they get, the harder that is on their systems and the more likely they are for kidney stones, bladder stones, chronic constipation, etc.

Yeah my girl Fena was diagnosed at the end of August 2018 and was in remission by early December 2018. But things can change on a dime, so it's good you keep a good track of how your Sam is doing. He's JUST out of a major procedure so... I'd recommend:

1.) Argue for more bupe! 10 days supply, 2x a day.

2.) Add water to his raw food. You can start with adding a tablespoon or two at a time, then work your way up.

3.) Keep your prebiotic, and talk with your vet about suture length, get those panels/x-rays and let us know how everything looks/is going.



We're here for you, and good luck! Love on Sam for me! xx

Thank you so much for this, I will definitely call the vet for more bupe and start adding water to his food. I’ve spent a lot of time reading posts on this forum since his initial diagnosis, and I’m so glad there’s such a kind, caring community of support here.

 

[Candy&Company]

Thank you so much for this, I will definitely call the vet for more bupe and start adding water to his food. I’ve spent a lot of time reading posts on this forum since his initial diagnosis, and I’m so glad there’s such a kind, caring community of support here.

You're more than welcome! If your vet argues about the bupe, which is what mine did, I just told them about my OWN experiences. My teeth have never been good, despite constant dentist, etc. So I've had to have A LOT of them removed at once with sutures. For a human, 3 days is LAUGHABLE even eating broth, scrambled eggs, mashes, etc. We get told to take ibuprofen (NSAID) for at LEAST 14 days which kills cats. Now imagine a cat who can't talk, but is hungry and just suffers through.... they're gonna be drooling, more hesitant to eat because even MOVING your jaws hurts, moving your TONGUE hurts. Definitely push for your baby.

Bupe is gonna help SO much but is also gonna make your baby very thirsty, so give and keep giving that extra water, they NEED it.

Let us know how Sam is doing in the future. If you're baby is on insulin, you can create a spreadsheet for racking which helps all of us, help YOU. If you need help with this, please let us know.