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ReaAnn & Big Hoss

ReaAnn & Big Hoss

Member Since 2018
This is probably going to sound like a weird question, but I was wondering if there's anyone on this board who HASN'T had some kind of life-threatening hypo scare, DKA crisis, or other catastrophe in the treatment of their diabetic cat? I'm new to the board and have been trying to read as much as I can today but it's kind of scary for someone whose cat was just diagnosed a few days ago because it seems like EVERYONE'S cat has had multiple crises. I guess I'm just wondering if a diabetic cat can ever have a fairly smooth diagnosis/treatment/maintenance, etc? Right now I'm kind of a neurotic, paranoid mess and I just have no idea what to expect.
 
First, take a breath. :bighug: it can be scary, but cats are so good at hiding their illnesses it's sometimes hard to diagnose thus it goes untreated until it's really bad.
Your big boy is adorable!! Head bumps and scritches to Hoss. Love the name. Welcome to board. Most of the people's cats who are doing well, don't need much advise it's the ones that are dealing with everyday "fires" that need the most help.
There are quit a few success stories of cats going into remission. It gets better. Hopefully your kitty will be one of those kitties that comes in, changes diet, gets lower numbers and works his way into remission too. :)
 
There are lots of people who are only on the board for a few weeks or so until their kitties spontaneously go into remission. I admit to feeling a little jealous of those ones. Spot has not had any immediate life threatening diabetes issues (he also has chronic pancreatitis but that’s another issue...). Just a few low number inspired late nights. The entire reason we advocate so hard for frequent testing is so that hypos and DKAs are caught before they become life threatening. Many of the worst stories are newly diagnosed kitties who don’t know they have a problem until it’s an emergency... that’s the worst way to find out! It does take time. You’ll hear it’s a marathon not a sprint a lot on here. But regulation is definitely not a pipe dream :)
 
ReaAnn, take a deep breath and relax. Not every member of this board has had a critical experience. Yep, many of us have experienced a hypo while trying to learn the "sugar dance" but not all have been life threatening. Idjit is a positive story, in spite of his Laurel and Hardy bean parents! He was diagnosed April 3, I found this board through a link from www.catinfo.org. I learned that my vet was not knowledgeable or experienced in feline diabetes, but the people here are! They provided information, my DH and I screwed up some, had trouble learning to test at first and were as nervous as you are. We eliminated dry food, fed Idjit Fancy Feast and Friskies, and he slid right into remission with 11 days of insulin support. We didn't do all it right, but Idjit did! And, it's been 6 months. He's bright eyed, bushy tailed and as spoiled as ever. It was unexpected, we were still running around like headless chickens, the members helping and advising were patient angels.
You might not get to remission, but I hope you do. You are going to learn step by step and before you know it you are going to be reassuring a brand new member.
I am offering this quote:
Start by doing what's necessary; then do what's possible; and suddenly you are doing the impossible. Saint Francis of Assisi
Don't you think that's the truth? I sure do. Hang in there, we are all walking this path, just at different starting times. :bighug:
 
We’re starting to get good at testing - now that I have the right meter! Just got it today thanks to done awesome folks’ recommendations. The Confirm is SO much better than the Prime it’s unbelievable.

I work very long hours and leave home at 5:30 am & don’t get home till 5:30 pm. So those are the times Hoss gets his shots. I’m working to build a routine and I’m very concerned about sending him hypo. I've been told I’m apparently on a fairly high starting dose of Lantus, but Hoss is a very big boy who had a pretty high starting BG and so far it’s staying pretty high.

He was diagnosed and started insulin last Friday. This will be the first day he’ll get tested 4 times. As I said - new meter is a godsend and we’re building our routine. I’m about to test him one more time before bed. I’m trying to remain vigilant but how will I know when he’s going or has gone into remission? Will it just happen from one shot to the next and all of a sudden his BG is too low? Remission almost sounds scary at this point! I’m terrified of making him hypoglycemic. :(
 
Testing is going to be your best tool to knowing if he's going into remission. Always test before shooting, get as many midday and before bed tests as you can, record those injections and BG tests so that if you do have an event, members can look at the data and give dosing advice. Print out the hypo instructions, make your hypo tool box. You may never need it, but better safe than sorry, right? Here's a link to the FAQs forum, right at the top is the Hypo information : HYPO STUFF Knowledge is power!
 
What’s the “do not shoot” threshold? Like, if I test him right before I leave for work - which is what I do because that's when I also have to shoot him - and I know nobody is going to be home all day, do I not give him any insulin if he’s under 200? Or a reduced dose at that number? Right now he’s on 2U of Lantus 2x/day.
 
At first 200 is a good general guideline, especially if you’re not home to monitor, but as you see how he reacts to the insulin, you can gradually shift your no shoot number lower. Also if you know you’ll be home to monitor for the majority of the cycle you can take a little bit more of a risk than you would if you won’t be home... so you can steer him back up if needed. I have no experience with Lantus, so for specific dosing advice you should head over to the Lantus forum, but I believe that Lantus has a bit longer of a cycle so it’s desirable after a while to shoot on lower numbers.
 
Well, you have not indicated in your signature which protocol you are going to use, Start Low Go Slow, or Tight Regulation. So I am just going to refer you to the SLGS method for now. Read this information in the link: SLGS
It says :
Q4.4. My cat's pre-shot level was way below the usual value. Should I give the injection?
A4.4. There's no hard and fast rule, but if you don't have data on how your cat responds to insulin, here are some general guidelines.
  • Below 150 mg/dl (8.3 mmol/L), don't give insulin.
  • Between 150 and 200 (8.3-11.1 mmol/L), you have three options: a.) give nothing; b.) give a token dose (10-25% of the usual dose); c.) feed as usual, test in a couple of hours, and make a decision based on that value.
  • Above 200 (11.1 mmol/L) but below the cat's normal pre-shot value, a reduced dose might be wise.
I was advised not to shoot if below 150 since I had very little data and we were brand new. I suggest you read all the yellow tagged info at the top of the Lantus forum, and post more questions on dosing there. The members in that forum are terrific and will help you lots!
 
ReaAnn said:
This is probably going to sound like a weird question, but I was wondering if there's anyone on this board who HASN'T had some kind of life-threatening hypo scare, DKA crisis, or other catastrophe in the treatment of their diabetic cat? I'm new to the board and have been trying to read as much as I can today but it's kind of scary for someone whose cat was just diagnosed a few days ago because it seems like EVERYONE'S cat has had multiple crises. I guess I'm just wondering if a diabetic cat can ever have a fairly smooth diagnosis/treatment/maintenance, etc? Right now I'm kind of a neurotic, paranoid mess and I just have no idea what to expect.
Click to expand...
I feel your frustration. Just diagnosed last week. Your kitty looks a lot like my kitty with blue eyes.
 
Oh honey, god knows i'm hoping and shooting FOR that - but I also know... I might be fooling myself. I hate it. I won't lie, I can't stand it, I hate it - it gets me worked up, I wanna scream and cry and it doesn't help anything. I HAVE to be calm, cool, in control - I HAVE to.

I lost my Momma this year, and that was.... *shakes head* I refuse to lose anything or anyone else, my ancient car or my old cats but... I don't control ANYTHING. I have no say so, honestly... I'm sucked along for all of these rides, and all I can do is try to guess. Will this treatment help them, will they suffer, will it prolong the inevitable, etc.

I could make so many connections to this, I won't.. because everyone whose ever had a pet, knows loss.

What I CAN say, is if your baby if fighting - YOU FIGHT TOO. If your baby won't give up, NEITHER DO YOU. They fight, you fight! Don't forget, don't give up - not until they do, if you can.

From what I've read here, yeah, your baby can be JUST FINE... commit and try, we're here, use us. We'll help you. xxxx
 
Idjit's mom said:
Well, you have not indicated in your signature which protocol you are going to use, Start Low Go Slow, or Tight Regulation. So I am just going to refer you to the SLGS method for now. Read this information in the link: SLGS
It says :
Q4.4. My cat's pre-shot level was way below the usual value. Should I give the injection?
A4.4. There's no hard and fast rule, but if you don't have data on how your cat responds to insulin, here are some general guidelines.
  • Below 150 mg/dl (8.3 mmol/L), don't give insulin.
  • Between 150 and 200 (8.3-11.1 mmol/L), you have three options: a.) give nothing; b.) give a token dose (10-25% of the usual dose); c.) feed as usual, test in a couple of hours, and make a decision based on that value.
  • Above 200 (11.1 mmol/L) but below the cat's normal pre-shot value, a reduced dose might be wise.
I was advised not to shoot if below 150 since I had very little data and we were brand new. I suggest you read all the yellow tagged info at the top of the Lantus forum, and post more questions on dosing there. The members in that forum are terrific and will help you lots!
Click to expand...

Great info, thanks!! Unfortunately, I don’t think I’m really using either “method” yet. I read about both of them but I’m just giving the dose my vet started is out on, which is 2U twice a day. I had people (not on this forum) tell me I was going to kill my cat with that dose. Which literally panicked me, being an utter newbie when he was diagnosed last Friday. But so far his BG numbers are staying quite high - even on that dose. But I am trying to carefully steer him toward a lower-carb canned diet. Right now he’s probably eating 80% canned to 20% dry which is almost the opposite of what he’d been eating before diagnosis. So I know changing them to low carb can radically drop their BG so I’m trying to test him as much as I can around my work schedule. But I won’t be home all day to do a curve until Saturday. So I’m still scared every time I have to shoot him in the morning and leave him for 12 hours. :(
 
ReaAnn said:
This is probably going to sound like a weird question, but I was wondering if there's anyone on this board who HASN'T had some kind of life-threatening hypo scare, DKA crisis, or other catastrophe in the treatment of their diabetic cat? I'm new to the board and have been trying to read as much as I can today but it's kind of scary for someone whose cat was just diagnosed a few days ago because it seems like EVERYONE'S cat has had multiple crises. I guess I'm just wondering if a diabetic cat can ever have a fairly smooth diagnosis/treatment/maintenance, etc? Right now I'm kind of a neurotic, paranoid mess and I just have no idea what to expect.
Click to expand...

Hi. Mia has been on insulin for 15 months. We have never had a severe hypo. There were some occasions where her numbers went too low, but I would not even have known if I had not been testing her at home.. in other words, there were never scary symptoms. I will say that I do not believe anyone can properly manage diabetes without home monitoring. It allows you to know what is going on, so if the cat is getting too low, there are steps you can take to turn it around before it becomes a "life-threatening hypo scare." I also have to say that had I blindly followed vet advice along the way, the situation might have been very different. The first vet "strongly" recommended against home testing. She said it would "damage the human/animal bond". (Bull!) The next one insisted that I hold the dose (ProZinc) no matter what. She said she did not care if Mia's pre-shot glucose was as low as 100 on a pet meter; she still wanted me to give her the full dose. (No way!) I even had testing data to show her Mia's responses and how clear it was that that would be crazy dangerous, but she would not be reasoned with. So, we moved on from her, too. I think it is important to research and learn for yourself so that you know how to manage this and so you will know when vet advice is good and when it might not be. Having a vet that actually understands it is a blessing, but that is not always possible. If you have one that is just reasonable and willing to work with you, that works just fine.

Mia has also never had kidney issues, no DKA. Another thing you will see quite a bit here is pancreatitis, but we seem to have avoided that thus far, too. There was a time when I was afraid she had it, but it turned out that the silly girl had eaten a yarn from a rug, and it wreaked havoc on her system during the couple of weeks it made it's way through her. Mia has also avoided neuropathy up to this point. So, yes, it is possible to manage the diabetes without having other serious conditions/complications come up. I understand how you feel. I have lived with a degree of fear/dread about Mia developing other issues because I see so many here who do. I feel VERY fortunate, and I am always aware that something could pop up somewhere along the way. This has made me more paranoid, for sure. If anything is 'off' with Mia or Willow, I immediately start analyzing it and trying to rule out any of the conditions I have learned about. The up side of that is that I am so much more educated now that if something really does come up, I am more likely to catch it. Also, this is a wonderful place to be able to come to ask about things that are going on. There are cat people from all walks of life here with varying experiences, so odds are that someone will know at least something about what you are asking about.

It's all overwhelming in the beginning. Take it one day at a time and try not to worry about things that don't exist today and may never. It will get better, probably quicker than you can imagine right now.
 
Breathe in ... Breathe out ...

So far Coco has been a best case scenario (knock on wood). She hasn't had a critical incident or any health concern before or since her diabetes diagnosis on June 1st. It took several weeks to transition her to wet food (she is picky and has champagne taste) and there were accompanying litter box issues. But once the transition was complete, her BG levels dropped significantly. She's been OTJ since July 27th and is holding very well. Honestly, the biggest issue I have is her crankypants attitude about blood tests. Some days it just isn't happening.

My vet looks for three things with diabetic cats in remission (he has had one of his own): maintaining weight, water intake, and urine output. He also likes that I'm home testing. We had a great convo last weekend when I took her in for a fructosamine test. I watch her like a hawk and I'm getting better at testing. So if something is off, I should notice it quickly.
 
Coco’s Momma said:
Breathe in ... Breathe out ...

So far Coco has been a best case scenario (knock on wood). She hasn't had a critical incident or any health concern before or since her diabetes diagnosis on June 1st. It took several weeks to transition her to wet food (she is picky and has champagne taste) and there were accompanying litter box issues. But once the transition was complete, her BG levels dropped significantly. She's been OTJ since July 27th and is holding very well. Honestly, the biggest issue I have is her crankypants attitude about blood tests. Some days it just isn't happening.

My vet looks for three things with diabetic cats in remission (he has had one of his own): maintaining weight, water intake, and urine output. He also likes that I'm home testing. We had a great convo last weekend when I took her in for a fructosamine test. I watch her like a hawk and I'm getting better at testing. So if something is off, I should notice it quickly.
Click to expand...

This is so encouraging! How did you catch that her numbers were coming down from the low carb diet? Through a lot of daily testing? I’m really shocked & happy with how well Hoss is tolerating the testing. We’re getting into a routine with it. I’m only going to be able to test 3-4 times a day on workdays but I can do curves and/or spot checks on the weekends when I’m home. We’re at 1 week now on Lantus and Hoss still seems slightly “off” (he’s eating fine, no vomiting but just doesn’t look like he feels all that great and of course he’s still drinking and peeing too much) and his BG levels are staying way too high. I’m sure my vet is going to want to increase his dose next week unless we miraculously start seeing his numbers drop down closer to normal in the next few days. I’m not sure what a realistic time is to expect the Lantus to start getting him more regulated.
 
When my MurrFee was on 8 units or so of Levemir twice daily he vomited everything about two hours after eating. I had to stay up most of the nigh syringe feeding him canned food with Kero (sugar syrup) to prevent hypo
 
Hi ReaAnn,

My cat, Moe was diagnosed in January 2016 at the age of 10. In the 2 and a half years he's been on insulin (Vetsulin), he's done extremely well. I don't home test (he's very squirmy and I live alone - sometimes injections are even difficult) and his diet is made up of part Fancy Feast and part prescription Purina DM dry food. I credit how well he's done to being meticulous when it comes to his injection time and how much food he gets at each meal -- it's always 12 hours apart (give or take 15-30 minutes at the most) and he never gets any treats. I also care for him 100% by myself to keep his stress down and to ensure it stays consistent. I miss traveling but love the guy so much that I'm fine with the trade-off.

It took about 6-9 months for me to find a rhythm and be comfortable with the injections. The last 2 years have been a breeze and he's had no complications or other health problems. Every day I'm amazed and incredibly thankful. I truly view every day with him as a blessing.

It's rare that I post anything to the message board but I do view it most days. Most of my questions are covered through other posts (the search feature is fantastic!) and I don't have much of my own advice to add to other peoples'. I did want to share this with you since I know it seems like there are so many sad situations discussed here. But please know there are plenty of us caring for diabetic cats who are thriving.

Feel free to reach out if there's ever anything I can do to help.

Katherine
 
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Rocky&Moe said:
Hi ReAnn,

My cat, Moe was diagnosed in January 2016 at the age of 10. In the 2 and a half years he's been on insulin (Vetsulin), he's done extremely well. I don't home test (he's very squirmy and I live alone - sometimes injections are even difficult) and his diet is made up of part Fancy Feast and part prescription Purina DM dry food. I credit how well he's done to being meticulous when it comes to his injection time and how much food he gets at each meal -- it's always 12 hours apart (give or take 15-30 minutes at the most) and he never gets any treats. I also care for him 100% by myself to keep his stress down and to ensure it stays consistent. I miss traveling but love the guy so much that I'm fine with the trade-off.

It took about 6-9 months for me to find a rhythm and be comfortable with the injections. The last 2 years have been a breeze and he's had no complications or other health problems. Every day I'm amazed and incredibly thankful. I truly view every day with him as a blessing.

It's rare that I post anything to the message board but I do view it most days. Most of my questions are covered through other posts (the search feature is fantastic!) and I don't have much of my own advice to add to other peoples'. I did want to share this with you since I know it seems like there are so many sad situations discussed here. But please know there are plenty of us caring for diabetic cats who are thriving.

Feel free to reach out if there's every anything I can do to help.

Katherine
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Thank you so much! I’m so glad your kitty is doing so well!
 
ReaAnn said:
This is so encouraging! How did you catch that her numbers were coming down from the low carb diet? Through a lot of daily testing? I’m really shocked & happy with how well Hoss is tolerating the testing. We’re getting into a routine with it. I’m only going to be able to test 3-4 times a day on workdays but I can do curves and/or spot checks on the weekends when I’m home. We’re at 1 week now on Lantus and Hoss still seems slightly “off” (he’s eating fine, no vomiting but just doesn’t look like he feels all that great and of course he’s still drinking and peeing too much) and his BG levels are staying way too high. I’m sure my vet is going to want to increase his dose next week unless we miraculously start seeing his numbers drop down closer to normal in the next few days. I’m not sure what a realistic time is to expect the Lantus to start getting him more regulated.
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I knew enough from lurking on the message board to watch Coco closely and cut back on her insulin dose during the transition. She also had glucose curves at the vet and he was surprised at her numbers. Especially when I told him the doses had been reduced by more than half. You'll see from my spreadsheet that I'm just now getting comfortable with regular testing.
 
I've been at this since 2004 and have adopted/ fostered 15 or so diabetics. We currently have 3. None of them have ever had a clinical hypo and about half have gone into remission. As others have said, one of the most important things is to home test blood sugar and keep them in a safe range. If a cat is repeatedly needing to be treated for low sugar, the insulin dose is too high.

DKA is more likely to happen in newly diagnosed cats who have gone untreated for awhile or have been poorly managed. My first cat was in full-blown DKA at diagnosis and hospitalized for a week. She was a big long haired coon and I missed all the signs, not knowing then that cats could even get diabetes. We had a lot of other cats and didn't notice the excessive drinking/peeing/weight loss until she crashed. From my experience, if there are no ketones at Dx, it's unlikely to be a issue although something to be aware of. Cats who seem more prone to ketones probably have something else going on.

2 units does seem like a high starting dose to me. If the cat has been fed primarily high carb/ dry food and is switched to low carb wet, the drop in blood sugar can be rather dramatic and increases the risk of hypo. Many people find this board following a hypo event because their cat was started on too high a dose.
 
ReaAnn said:
This is so encouraging! How did you catch that her numbers were coming down from the low carb diet? Through a lot of daily testing? I’m really shocked & happy with how well Hoss is tolerating the testing. We’re getting into a routine with it. I’m only going to be able to test 3-4 times a day on workdays but I can do curves and/or spot checks on the weekends when I’m home.
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This sounds perfectly fine to me.

Little steps @ReaAnn .

First really is to transition his diet whilst also keeping an eye on his BG via testing. You are doing just that.

Your vet will do a fructosamine test and he will decide on what dose he is comfortable with from that.
Vets usually start with the 2units if it is lanctus and they prefer higher numbers.

Take your time to become familiar with all the ins and the outs.
 
ReaAnn said:
This is probably going to sound like a weird question, but I was wondering if there's anyone on this board who HASN'T had some kind of life-threatening hypo scare, DKA crisis, or other catastrophe in the treatment of their diabetic cat? I'm new to the board and have been trying to read as much as I can today but it's kind of scary for someone whose cat was just diagnosed a few days ago because it seems like EVERYONE'S cat has had multiple crises.
Click to expand...
Hi ReaAnn, (((big reassuring hugs))) to you. :bighug:

Do be aware that, because of the nature of this forum, people often post about problems they're having: People don't post so much about when things are going just fine. ;) ...So, it may be that when you read posts on this forum you don't get a 'balanced' view of what most people's day to day experience actually is.
Not all cats have hypos or get DKA. Many cats never experience either of these things. With good care, and just a little luck, a diabetic cat can live as long and as happily as a non-diabetic. And quite a number of cats will go into remission from their diabetes.

My own diabetic boy has had a few hypos over the years. But because I was home-testing (and had a fair idea of what I needed to do (thanks to info on this forum)) we got through those situations just fine.
He has now been diabetic for almost 12 years (in remission for the past year), and is coming up to 20 years old. :smuggrin:

Eliz
 
Sawyer and I are sending hugs!!

He was diagnosed in June and we've never had any scares. We are still getting his insulin adjusted but things have gone very smoothly for us :) He started out on 1 unit twice a day and then we raised it to 1 1/2 units. He responded really well to the 1.5 units and his numbers were pretty low at his last glucose curve. He's back to 1 unit but the fact that he responded so quickly means that there's potential for remission.

I completely understand your fears--I'm constantly thinking about what I would do if Sawyer became hypoglycemic and the best thing you can do is be prepared. I keep honey in the house just in case I ever need to rub it on his gums and I wrote down the address of a 24 hour vet. Unfortunately, I haven't yet gotten the hang of home testing, but I'm trying to get better at it and until I do, I take him to the vet for glucose curves regularly to make sure his numbers aren't too low.

The fact that you joined this forum shows that you're doing more than most owners would! Hoss is a cutie and he's lucky to have you :)

Sawyer+Allie:)
 
Positive story :)

My cat was diagnosed in August 2016. The vet let me know WalMart was the cheapest place for the insulin and syringes he prescribed, wanted me to shoot 2 units every morning and evening BLIND, advised me not to home test because he had only one client successful at it, and feed the expensive prescription canned food. This was how he was obviously trained, but due to experience with human diabetes, I knew shooting blind was not good, and within a few minutes on Google, found this website. Following the advice here (low carb canned cat food and home testing), the cat was off the juice in September 2016, and has been ever since. We don't test near as often as we used to, but if the cat's numbers start to move significantly, I will. The cat was on the juice for such a short period of time, I never finished the first vial of insulin, never got the second vial on the prescription, and still have most of the box of syringes from when he was first diagnosed :rolleyes: The biggest issue we ever had were quality control issues with 9 Lives canned cat food (mold) and Orijen freeze-dried dog treats (the same brand making food in the same facility being sued for heavy metal and BPA contamination). The cat gets Fancy Feast pates and Pure Bites freeze-dried meat dog treats now :D

:joyful::joyful::joyful::joyful::joyful::joyful::joyful::joyful::joyful: THANK YOU to everyone here, who has helped us :joyful::joyful::joyful::joyful::joyful::joyful::joyful::joyful::joyful:
 
I’ve been very blessed with Dusty. He was on insulin for about 2 weeks and quickly snapped out of it. He’ll turn 5 years OTJ next month (knock on wood). His biggest complication was constipation which I control with MiraLax. His numbers creeped up a bit a few moths ago due to some tooth issues but after a dental cleaning/extraction he was back to normal. It seems overwhelming in the beginning but it does get easier. If you experience any issues someone here has probably already dealt with it. Good luck with your kitty, everything will be fine.
 
Noah is our second sugar cat, his brother Nigel was our first. We have had some low numbers over the years but not a single HYPO episode, seizure, constipation, vomit etc. That sounds almost unbelievable even to me because Noah's family of six all had cardiomyopathy and Noah has an enlarged heart and a mouthful of rotten teeth that he cannot be anesthetized for. I don't think it's my medical expertise that is responsible, I think we just finally caught a break after a lot of bad luck. Diabetes is not a death sentence, it's just a slight inconvenience. Nigel would sometimes dip below 60 on a human meter, then prance around the house with his tail in the air wondering why I was staring at him with beads of sweat on my head.
I have some whacko neurological conditions and one of them gives me a 5 minute warning to crawl into bed with frozen gel packs, a supply of Lorazepam and a list of Gods to pray to. When that happens Noah misses his shot so not everything that happens to you and your cat has to be a tragedy. I also don't publish Noah's spreadsheet because you'd wonder what on Earth I was doing to my cat.
It's okay to be a complete mess when you come home with your first giant list of medical oddities, we've all been there.
 
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