PMPS 455 +4 55 +4.25 67 +4.5 68 +5 75 +6 94

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Momos_Mama

Momos_Mama

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Hello! I just brought home a bottle of insulin for the 1st time. My kitty Mo was diagnosed last Thursday and we immediately switched food (the next day his reading was down 300 points!) and put off insulin until we could find an affordable place to do a glucose curve. Today we took Mo in for his glucose curve and I was shocked when the tech advised me to start him on 5 units of Prozinc twice a day and stop home blood testing because he will get mean. My goal is remission! He's young and otherwise healthy. If he went into remission I'd overdose him with that advice. I needed to get this off my chest. I have just printed the understanding the spreadsheet, glossary of terms, faq etc and will be up half the night trying to digest all this. I only have until 6 am tomorrow morning to decide if I should give him another 5 units. That is my dilemma. I appreciate any advice!
 
5 units is an extremely large starting dose. Are you home testing? It will not make your kitty mean, and could save his life! Did you give 5 units tonight, and if so how long ago? @Sue and Oliver (GA) is our ProZinc guru, and can help you understand how it works.
 
First, the GA means your kitty has crossed over....it means "Gone Ahead" or "Guardian Angel"....when we see that prefix, our hearts sink

5 units is crazy high for a starting dose and your vet is crazy for suggesting that home testing will make your cat mean....We find the exact opposite is true....the bond between you grows stronger than you could ever imagine it being!!

We all think we love our cats as much as possible....wait until you've been doing the sugardance awhile and you'll find a whole new meaning of the word "love"!!

You can totally trust the people here to help you with dosing.....there's no big reason you have to go back to your vet or explain what you're doing to him/her when it comes to this disease anyway. My own cat hasn't been to the vet since I first got my script for Lantus...If she goes to the vet, I tell them she's on X units of insulin and her blood glucose is running from X to Y and that's it....If the vet feels like she has to add something, I nod my head and smile and maybe say "I'll have to consider that" and leave....and continue to do what I know works for every other person here!!

If your vet gets upset by you taking control, you probably need to just find another vet that's willing to work WITH you and not dictate TO you
 
This is my cat being really mean when I am home-testing him. :p He is usually non-stop purring, even falls asleep some of the time. Of course every cat is different, but saying home-testing will make them mean implies that you're doing harm to your cat - which is the opposite of true, it's helping keep them safe and healthy.

I agree that starting dose is outrageously high, but I have no experience with Prozinc.
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Sue and Oliver (GA) said:
Did you give insulin? Do you have a meter and can you get a blood glucose level? I am very concerned that 5 units is a very high dose (we suggest starting at one unit) and it is possible he will drop too low.
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They had me give him 5 units to show I could give the injection. I asked about such a high starting dose and she said that this insulin is different and it has a higher starting dose. That is not what I'm reading on the boards though. I do have the relion but I cant get any blood out of his ear tonight. I am so worried about his glucose getting to low that I put out some extra food for him. He seems to be acting normal and its been almost 3 hours since the injection.
 
That's OK....some people think it means they live in Georgia!!

Just go over to the right side of your first post and find "Thread Tools"....you can edit your subject line by choosing "No prefix" or if you have a question, use the ? icon
 
I use Vetsulin, similar to Prozinc. I would never give that much to start. I don't follow everything my vet reccomends. With all I have learned here, the vet tech says I know more about FD then the vets do. I have more time to go online then they do.
 
Usually the lowest point in the cycle is 5-7 hours after the shot. I would definitely keep an eye on him - watch for unusual behavior, loud meowing, acting like he is having trouble seeing, sleeping and not waking up or seizures. Not to scare you, but better safe than sorry.

ProZinc has the same starting dose recommendation as every other insulin - most often one unit. Here is the info from their package.
http://www.prozinc.us/content/dam/internet/ah/prozinc/us_EN/documents/ProZinc_Product_Info.pdf
 
Sharon14 said:
5 units is an extremely large starting dose. Are you home testing? It will not make your kitty mean, and could save his life! Did you give 5 units tonight, and if so how long ago? @Sue and Oliver (GA) is our ProZinc guru, and can help you understand how it works.
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Thank you for responding! I am trying to home test. I try both ears once before giving up in hopes he won't get too upset. He is officially flinching and trying to get away when I poke him. I always set down a dish of tuna which he goes to town on while I poke and prod. The Tech had me give 5 units in front of her about 3 hours ago and he had been acting normal. I was really worried about the amount so I put down extra food for him. I have no idea if that was a good idea or not. Thank you for the info.
 
Yes, extra food may keep his level higher.

One of the most important parts of home testing is heating the ear. Put some raw rice in a sock, knot it and heat in microwave until very warm. Hold it next to his ear for a minute or so. You are trying to get the blood moving through capillaries, plumping them up,
 
Erica & Carter said:
This is my cat being really mean when I am home-testing him. :p He is usually non-stop purring, even falls asleep some of the time. Of course every cat is different, but saying home-testing will make them mean implies that you're doing harm to your cat - which is the opposite of true, it's helping keep them safe and healthy.

I agree that starting dose is outrageously high, but I have no experience with Prozinc. View attachment 23253
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Thank you for that. How adorable =) I have only had 2 successful jabs since this started last week. Momo loves to lay out on our super cold balcony and be cold. I am trying out each idea I come across.
 
Sue and Oliver (GA) said:
Yes, extra food may keep his level higher.

One of the most important parts of home testing is heating the ear. Put some raw rice in a sock, knot it and heat in microwave until very warm. Hold it next to his ear for a minute or so. You are trying to get the blood moving through capillaries, plumping them up,
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Love that idea! Tonight I tried the warm water in an old pill bottle idea but no success. It will happen eventually. Do think 2 pokes is too soon to give up?
 
I would set an alarm so you can check on him every so often. I think with Prozinc his BG will be the lowest around 5-7 hours after his shot. We have a "sticky" labeled "Hypos, they can kill." I'm not technical enough to make a link on my phone. I will leave a post on the Prozinc Forum.
 
Sue and Oliver (GA) said:
Usually the lowest point in the cycle is 5-7 hours after the shot. I would definitely keep an eye on him - watch for unusual behavior, loud meowing, acting like he is having trouble seeing, sleeping and not waking up or seizures. Not to scare you, but better safe than sorry.

ProZinc has the same starting dose recommendation as every other insulin - most often one unit. Here is the info from their package.
http://www.prozinc.us/content/dam/internet/ah/prozinc/us_EN/documents/ProZinc_Product_Info.pdf
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Oh thank you so much. I appreciate the links in your signature as well!
 
I would try the testing again. If he'll let you, rub his ear vigorously and poke once or twice in the same spot, then milk the ear by rubbing from the base to the poke spot. The sweet spot is very near the edge of the ear. If you can make a rice sock like Sue suggested, that will help too.
 
I've been doing my cat's blood glucose testing for over a year, and I'll still not get enough blood (or even no blood at at all!) if I fail to warm the ear first. It makes a huge difference! I use a sock filled with rice, but a baggie filled with warm water would probably work better than a pill bottle since the baggie will form to the area. Just be sure to test the temperature on yourself so you don't burn your kitty. Take your time to thoroughly warm the ear.

You can also apply a very small amount of plain petroleum jelly to the ear before testing. This helps promote healing and it helps the blood form into a nice bead for you to collect with the testing strip. Emphasis on just a little, you don't want a super greasy ear. :P

Try not to poke the exact same spot each time.

I fold a piece of toilet paper into thirds and place it behind his ear. Making sure the skin is taught by sandwiching it firmly (firmly, but not painfully firm!) between the lancing device and the toilet paper makes for a good poke.

I used a few different lancing devices and lancets and found the Accu-Chek Softclix was the least painful to use. Your kitty may be more cooperative if you try this lancing device.

Teaching your cat to come and sit on a special mat or pillow can be helpful as well. If you need him at a better angle, you can just spin the pillow around instead of trying to get him to move exactly how you want. I'm reading a cat training book titled "Naughty No More!" by Marilyn Krieger and one of the first activities is training your cat to come to a specific spot.

After a poke, even if it's unsuccessful, be sure to lavish him with reward! You want this testing experience to be followed by a clear reward to form a positive association, otherwise he has no reason to cooperate.

In the beginning, I would not poke my cat's ear more than 3 times in one attempt. I would space my attempts half an hour apart and switch ears between attempts.
 
You guys were right! His reading is 55 right now! I skipped right to karo syrup and filling his food bowl with dry food. He is eating merrily like nothing is happening.
 
keep watching him and checking every 20minutes. put on a pot of coffee, it's going to be a long night. Someone will stay with you until he is safe. It is better to start a new thread. use the 911 option and in upper case type "HYPO KITTY " . Help will continue running.
 
Phew, I'm so happy you got his blood glucose reading! Great work! :bighug:

I know getting the reading is incredibly frustrating and disheartening at first, but it really does get faster and easier with time. It will get better.

My vet was pretty good about my cat's diabetes, but I learned more here than I did from my vet. The protocols outlined on the forums here are very likely your best and most accurate resource for treating your cat's diabetes. If you're not happy with your experience at the vet or the vet's advice, you would not be the first person to switch vets over such issues.

Remember, when your vet suggests a treatment, it is only a suggestion. You can say no. If you don't understand why they're recommending a specific treatment or advising against something, ask them why. "What calculation did you use to determine 5 units is the correct starting dose?" "I don't feel comfortable starting with 5 units; is there a more conservative dose to start with?"
 
Great that you got that test! Check again in 20 min. to make sure he's not dropping any further.
 
That's better but you're not out of the woods yet...You want to test again in 30 minutes and IF he's still going up, you'll want to get at least more test an hour later to make sure he doesn't come back down

We don't usually like using dry food in these kinds of cases because it takes too long to get into the bloodstream and then too long to get back out again, but in this case, it's probably a good thing!

It will help if you'll edit your subject line again and put the PMPS (the test you got right before feeding shooting tonight....it's the PM Pre-Shot) and then keep us informed of the tests you get as you go along

We use the same system so everyone understands, so you'd then use + and however long it's been since the last shot

I don't know if you got a test before you shot tonight....If you did, put PMPS ###, + ? (how long since the shot? 2 hours would be +2, 3 hours would be +3, and so on)

An example would be PMPS 385, +3 55.....and keep that subject line updated with the latest numbers so people can quickly scan the board watching out for everyone

If you didn't get a test before the shot tonight, just put "No PMPS but only 2nd shot @5 units, +3 55, +3.5 67

Since I don't know what time you shot tonight, or how long it's been since that shot, those are just examples. You'd have to put your own numbers in
 
How are you a.d Mamos doing. The sugar won't keep Mamos BG up for long. You will need to check his BS often to make sure it stays up. Do you have any higher carb canned food? Wet food is absorb!ed faster then dry.
One of us will stay with you tell Mamos is out of the woods. I remember how scared I was when Callie's BG dropped low and how mu h I appreciated the people who sat up with me till 3 AM. Where do you live, what time is it. It's 10:27 here. Good thing I'm a night owl.
 
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Thanks for updating your subject line....that will make it easier for everyone to keep track of you guys

You'll want to test again at +5

In the future, we usually recommend keeping something like Fancy Feast Gravy Lovers around as well as Karo, honey or syrup

What most of us do is pop the top, put it back and "squeeze" the gravy into another bowl and give a couple of teaspoons of just the gravy (that's where most of the carbs are anyway). It works faster than dry food without the problem of having to wait for the dry to work it's way out of his system again

You're doing great tonight, but under no circumstances should you shoot more than 1 unit in the morning, no matter how high he goes

The important thing to ask yourself is "How low is this dose taking him"? without worrying so much about how high he starts at...the Pre-shot tests are mostly just to make sure they're high enough for insulin at all

If you left the dry down, I'd take it up. You don't want him eating so much that he makes himself sick because his body is telling him he needs to eat (most cats when they go low will look for food)
 
donnalea said:
How are you and Oliver doing. The sugar won't keep Oliver's BG up for long. You will need to check his BS often to make sure it stays up. Do you have any higher carb canned food? Wet food is absorb!ed faster then dry.
One of us will stay with '' tell Oliver is out of the woods. I remember how scared I was when Callie's BG dropped low and how mu h I appreciated the people who sat up with me till 3 AM. Where do you live, what time is it. It's 10:27 here. Good thing I'm a night owl.
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Oh thank you so much. I'm in the same time zone! I haven't been able to sleep very well since the diagnosis so I'm kinda scatterbrained + emotional right now. This handsome fella is Momo. I don't have a higher carb food besides the dry right now and he gorged on that, which I also put karo on. Now he is snoozing but purring. Our last test took 3 jabs and he was desperate to get away. Time for the next one =(
 
Okay my husband is up helping me and we succesfully got blood on the 1st jab this time. He had the monitor right there, it was great. But the reading was up only 1 point to 68. That can't be good.
 
Chris & China said:
You're doing great tonight, but under no circumstances should you shoot more than 1 unit in the morning, no matter how high he goes

The important thing to ask yourself is "How low is this dose taking him"? without worrying so much about how high he starts at...the Pre-shot tests are mostly just to make sure they're high enough for insulin at all

If you left the dry down, I'd take it up. You don't want him eating so much that he makes himself sick because his body is telling him he needs to eat (most cats when they go low will look for food)
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Thank you for all this help. This is a wonderful place and I really appreciate it.
 
If he struggles during testing, wrap him up in a large towel like a kitty burrito. I'm sorry that I got your names mixed up. Dont have my brain in the right place.
 
Glucose meters are allowed to be up to 20% inaccurate. It gives you one number, but that number represents a range of values +/- 20% of that number.

55 could be any number between 44 to 66
67 ... 54 to 80
68 ... 54 to 82

If the ranges overlap, it's considered the same reading. Still record the number that you got from the meter as it was read, but understand he's been holding steady rather than increasing.

I learned about this from user BJM's google doc here under the section "Glucometer Notes."
 
As long as he's above 50 and not showing any signs of distress, try not to worry too much.

50 on a human meter is our "take action" point....non-diabetic cats can have normal BG's in the mid-high 30's, so setting our "take action" point at 50 gives a little bit of a cushion

ECID though (Every Cat Is Different) but if he didn't show any symptoms of hypo at 55, I'd say he runs about normal for most kitties around here
 
Good for you and hubby. Tomorrow Mamos's BG will probably be high and may bounce from high to low for a few days, Don't give more then 1u until someone from the Prozinc forum can advise you.
Whatever you do, if his BG is under 200, don't give any insulin. It's better to be too high then too low.
 
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