PLEASE help NEED ADVICE ASAP

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loara71

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I am a newbie

UPDATE: On my cat "Prince" (First, I must apologize for this lengthy message. However, I want to make sure you understand and have all the information you might need to give advice too.)

Prince is not home yet. He is still at the vet. :sad: My vet has not been able to get him stable enough to bring home. I have the nicest "elderly" vet, same one I have had for 26 years. I know he loves Prince. He even has Prince's photo showing in his office which I took of the two of them together 8 years ago. However, I have a gut feeling my vet just is not knowledgeable enough to treat Prince this time. Below is the break down of the last few days and some background info on what I am going though.

I NEED ADVICE BADLY! confused_cat IF YOU CAN please read below and see what you think and get back to me ASAP. (I took off work today so if you post here I am checking back throughout the day.)

Prince went into the vet on Tues. (this week 10/19) diagnosed then with glucose level of 369; bun 37; (normal 10 -30) creatinine 3.2; (normal 0.8 - 2.0) which last two areas shows kidney functioning & cholesterol of 317; (normal 20 - 205) BTW. I took him into the vet only because he was drinking a lot of water and seemed to be getting thinner as well. He has had high cholesterol for years now, and not treated. He had a blood test last Feb. and nothing was wrong then but his high cholesterol. He was given the complete blood test in FEB. only upon my request just because of his age; he is 17 years old. I was not informed on how to treat his cholesterol then but had put him on Science Diet two years ago for seniors (wet). However, he also has (dry food) Science Diet for seniors out and available to nibble on at anytime during the day.

OK, NOW SOME BACKGROUND INFO. ON PRINCE: (I am sorry I don't have complete detailed info on what insulin Prince is on as well. I have left a message for my vet to call back and let me know.)

drinking11 TUES. 10/19 = I took Prince to my vet. My vet gave him 5 units of insulin after I left him. They also put him on IV (not much though) just for some quick fluids as well.

WED. 10/20 = (all day) they monitored his BG level and it was in the normal range. He was eating the science diet food I sent from home (BUT NOT ANY DRY). I do know the Science Diet is still not the best but also read not to switch his food while on insulin (or getting him stabilized).

THURS. 10/20 =- My vet was not in. (family business) However, the staff was there. I called from work and they told me his BG level was still in the normal range with no insulin. They thought Prince might get to come home today (Friday 22nd) if it stayed that way.
(I stopped by from work at 4 pm to see Prince. He looked great. He was wanting me to take him home; crying, purring and all.) BTW. He didn't really look bad when I took him in either but seemed more peppy now is all.)

TODAY FRI. 10/21 = I called my vet and his levels were up again in the low 300's when my vet came back into his office today. My vet gave him 3 units of insulin. He told me now his BG is normal again but not able to come home yet. (unstable).

confused_cat WHAT DO I DO? My vet says to keep him there and continue to work with him. btw. My vet is very reasonable in price for his treatments. Therefore, I am not worried about him overcharging or that.
I next mentioned to my vet that the food Prince was on was not the best; Science Diet for seniors. He told me I could bring in any food I want and he would try it but I know that might not be a good idea. My vet is NOT A 24 hour vet and a one man small office at that. I don't want to give him something that would REALLY mess up the BG levels; like a change in diet as he is being introduced to insulin. He is not monitor there at night.

I now know this: My vet is not knowledgeable :? since I had to tell him how Sci. Diet is NOT GOOD FOR diabetic cats. My vet said he could try Purina DM which told me he was not up to date on the best diet for diabetic cats as well.


I WANT TO DO THIS....TELL ME IF IT MAKES SENSE OR NOT. PLEASE :) cat_pet_icon

I have made an appointment for tonight at 7 pm to be seen at another clinic WITHOUT my cat. I am going to keep him where he is now knowing he is being taken care of better than I could until stable. This clinic I made a consultation appointment with is associated with PETS MART pet stores and is a training clinic for young doctors (too). I have read good things about their clinics. If I go tonight I won't have princess but they will give advice. I am going to go down, this afternoon, and ask my doctor for more records to take with me as well.
I did find out, from the receptionist where I will get the 2nd opinion, that many of their clients have pets that they monitor at home for BG levels. She said the doctors have trained them how to do it. That tells me they are up to date on what is the latest things for diabetic cats and are willing to work with me to get Prince stabilized. BTW I did call another vet clinic and the said NO, NO to testing at home. They told me that pets won't let you do it after awhile and that it bruises the pets ears badly too. They said they do weekly blood panels on their pets. WHAT AN EXPENSE that would be!

SO AM I RIGHT IN GOING TONIGHT FOR THAT 2ND OPINION WITHOUT MY CAT? confused_cat I thought if I like what I hear I could then take Prince tomorrow from my vet and transfer him over to the 2nd opinion vet clinic. ONE BENEFIT TOO is that this 2nd clinic his open 7 days a week 8 to 8 which means Prince would be watched more closely that way until stabilized. My vet is only opened M - Sat (until 2 on Sat as well)

PLEASE ADVICE. drinking11 I think I will go for that consultation tonight for sure BUT TELL me what you think about transferring Prince over to that clinic if need be. Also, advice me on if it is good to try changing my cats food right now to something like Wellness core (grain free) or EVO. I DON'T think I should do that though.

THANKS FOR ANY ADVICE I can get. I love this community :razz: and have faith in all you say. I feel experience is important and you all have that and I don't.

THANKS; Candy & Prince
 
well it sounds as if the 2nd clinic has the right idea. i'd go.
as far as keeping your baby there all this time i am not sure i understand why he is there.
why the fluids?
have you been given a report of his being tested for ketones?
the only thing i'm thinking is it would be best to take your kitty in with you for the 2nd opinion vet.
 
If I were you, Candy, I would bring Prince home, testing his blood glucose levels at home. I would be worried about your old vet keeping him but not having anyone there at night. The second place sounds better as they advocate home testing so should be more up on FD. The problem with having Prince at any vet to determine insulin dose is that many cats are stressed at the vet and stress raises bg levels. And then doses based on those stressed induced numbers can be too high when you get him home.

Maybe the second place can show you how to test his ear, practicing on a cat that is there, if you go for a consult. Or we can teach you on line. We have taught hundreds of people.
 
It does sound like you could bring him home safely. Home testing is the way to go. Will be looking for updates on which insulin Prince is on. What a beautiful boy :cool:

MJ&Donovan
 
he's only at the vet in an attempt to "stabilize" his blood glucose (BG) levels? if so, there is no need for him to be kept there in my opinion. "stabilization" of BG levels doesn't happen in a few days nor in a clinic setting usually. if he has other illnesses/problems that are making him lethargic, inappetant, etc....then i could see why he must stay at a clinic.

does the 2nd clinic know you will be coming without the cat? if so and they are ok with just doing basically a consult about diabetes, i don't see any problem with that. it's definitely a good way to check someone out right :-)
 
Pick up an inexpensive glucometer (I have a Walmart ReliOn), testing strips, and lancets (I went with larger 25 gauge to start, but as you get good at it, you can use smaller and smaller ones). You can do just fine without the much more expensive AlphTrack, as most folks here will attest.

I'd bring the cat home, with a long-acting insulin, once I had the testing equipment, because you'll do more monitoring, even over night, than the current vet's office is able to do.

Do you know what insulin the vet is using? The long-acting ones, for example insulin glargine (Lantus), seem to work very well with slow release and fewer swings than the shorter acting ones. If on Lantus, folks find that the small doses a cat needs are more economically accomodated by getting the pen vials of 3 ml each, rather than the bigger 10 ml vial. Come ofer to the Lantus sub-forum and check out the stickies at the top that tell you more than you ever thought you'd need to know about insulin.

If not on a long-acting insulin, that'd be something to discuss with the current and 2nd opinion vets. It makes the dosing somewhat less difficult.

Also, your current vet may be teachable - print this out for him to read:
http://www.uq.edu.au/ccah/index.html?page=43599&pid=0
Diabetes mellitus in cats
Jacquie S. Rand BVSc, DVSc a, and Rhett D.Marshall BVSc a, b
from the University of Queensland
Rand is one of the feline diabetes experts, with several publications on the use of Lantus in cats which are listed here:
http://www.uq.edu.au/ccah/index.html?page=41544


Note: I'm still a newbie.
 
Have to say I was getting very nervous reading your post about Prince and the vet. Unless a vet is a 24hr clinic, leaving a cat there and getting insulin with no one over night is dangerous IMHO. His bg is not that high and looking at what they are shooting him as far as units scares the c..p out of me. If possible, go bring your boy home tonight alone with the insulin your vet is using and take him with you tomorrow for the new consultation. Get a Reli-On meter from Walmart, some test strips and lancets, and some Ketostix or KetoDiastix for testing urine for ketones and/or ketones and glucose. I truly would not leave him one more night where he is at.
 
OK. SO many think I should take PRINCESS WITH ME. I could do that but then tonight what do I do if the new doctor doesn't keep over night? Can I manage his insulin to stabilize it? At least I am off the next two days too!!!!!!!!!(I know I don't know his insulin yet either.) I do know this.... my vet is ONLY giving him insulin once a day where he is at which concerns me too from what I have read.
confused_cat DO I GO GET HIM AND THEN JUST TRANSFER HIM TO THE NEW PLACE with the consulation? I have to admit it seems more promising. I think if he is with me they would say to leave him for with them to check overnight and then maybe release him to me tomorrow and train me on monitoring him.

NOW MY BIGGEST CONCERN OF ALL!!!!!! nailbite_smile
PLEASE HELP... If Prince was released to me to monitor. What do I do. :sad: I HAVE TO WORK. I TEACH AND DRIVE 25 MILES. I WORRY FOR HIM DURING THE DAY. MY ONLY HOPE WOULD BE MY HUBBY, WHO IS A GARDENER COULD TEST/ETC/, BUT HE IS NOT GOOD AT THAT STUFF. Even with our kids, when young, I had to treat them. My hubby is a little learning disabled and it is hard for him. HE DOES LOVE PRINCESS BUT HE CAN'T EVEN USE A COMPUTER TO GET ADVICE IF NEEDED, HE WOULD NEED SOMEONE TO PHONE. HE IS A GREAT GUY BUT NOT GOOD AT THINGS LIKE THAT AT ALL. I work and leave from 7 am to 4 pm daily. PLEASE ADVICE! :dizcat
 
You said your vet is shooting him once a day so that means he wouldn't get any insulin tonight, correct? I would bring him home tonight, take him in to see the other vet tonight if that is when the appointment is, buy a meter, find out the name of the insulin your vet has him on, and come back here and tell us.
It is more dangerous to leave him with a vet shooting 5 units one day, 3 units another day, not the way to do it. Trust me, we can help you with the insulin no matter what brand/name it is and we can help you with the hometesting. It truly is easy to do and learn. Don't let your own fear of having him home with you override your decision to bring him home. He may only need a change of food and your meter will help you know that. If he does need the insulin eventually, you can test him feed and shoot before going to work. Just get all the info you can to help us help you. Someone in CA might also be near you, town? and may also be available to PM you their phone number so you can talk with them.
 
The simple answer - bring your cat home - take him with you to the consult - BUT DO NOT LEAVE your cat at the 2nd vet - bring him home.

We will help you learn how to treat him - insulin shots and dosage, home testing etc.

Give yourself peace of mind and keep Prince in his home environment. Bring him home. Leaving him at a vet's office is unnecessary, especially one that doesn't provide 24/7 care.

Look, I know it's hard to go against a vet you've been with for many years, but you need to do what is best for Prince. Leaving him there to get him regulated (get his bg adjusted) is not the answer.

Think of it this way - if Prince were a human child, you wouldn't be leaving the child in a hospital indefinitely to get the bg regulated. No, you would take the child home, learn how to test and administer insulin yourself. Why is it different because this is a cat and not a human?

Also, home testing is vital to the treatment of diabetes. It's the only way you are going to learn when it's safe to give insulin, how much insulin to give, etc. Yes, his ears may get bruised from testing them - but again, it's no different from a human pricking their fingers to test. We have tricks to help minimize the bruising and honestly, once you learn how to do it, Prince isn't going to notice it.

If you tell us where you are located, we may have members close by who can offer in person support to you.
 
I see no reason to keep Princess at the vet, as long as she doesn't have ketones. The reason is that the insulin dose is hard to stabilize and can take some time. Also, most cats have a higher than normal bg (blood glucose) reading at vets due to stress. So you will need to learn to home test Princess' BG. If you start with a low dose, you shouldn't have any problems with your work schedule.

You could talk to your present vet about what you have learned here and discuss how you your like to proceed. He may be willing to work WITH you. But a second opinion from the other vet can't hurt.

Things to ask about:

1. You want a gentle, long-lasting one that gives a gentle curve. Many here use human insulins (Lantus or levemir), but there are also perfectly good animal insulins.
2. Most cat need insulin twice a day.
3. Start with a low dose, usually 1 unit twice a day (BID).
4. Do they support home testing? You don't need your vets permission, but it's better if they support the decision.
5. You don't need the RX food. Don't let them push that on you.
 
It does seem scary to know his life is virtually in your hands. But you know him best and love him the most and who else will care like you do?

When Oliver got diabetes, it was at Christmas time. My vet sent us home with a large dose, no info on hometesting and feeding dry food. Then she went on vacation. We had no choice but to take over. With the help and advice we got here, we took control. We learned to home test over the Internet, we changed his food and rapidly reduced the dose. Six months later, he was off insulin.

We like our vet, but she was not an expert in FD. She was in a sole practice, so we had no support. This website was a lifeline for us.



Lots of people here work full-time. You test in the am and test at night and do more frequent testing on the weekends. This is doable. We'll help you.
 
i just want to make sure we're not missing any part of the story. your cat doesn't have ketones, right? you'd determine that from a blood or urine test. so the only reason the vet is keeping him is because of the diabetic numbers? when vet says he's not "stable", is that only with relation to his glucose or is it something else? is his electrolyte count off? (that's what i'd normally think if i heard a cat wasn't stable.) nothing with heart or breathing or anything else besides cholesterol, creatinine, and glucose? BUN i don't worry too much about if he is on a higher protein diet.

if the vet is keeping him because of diabetic numbers, you can do better at home. even a vet clinic during the day isn't going to watch him super closely for diabetes -- they'll just take periodic tests that you can take at home for about 50 cents to a dollar a test.

take a look at dr lisa's site on feline nutrition: http://catinfo.org
put away the dry food unless your cat absolutely will not eat anything else, in which case you'll have to transition him from dry to wet food. check out janet & binky's food charts for canned food with less than 10% carbs: http://binkyspage.tripod.com/canfood.html (check out the new and old canned food tables and you'll probably find some food you like and can buy easily)

get your vet to prescribe insulin and syringes. preferably lantus, levemir, or prozinc. get U100 syringes with half-unit markings (.3cc, U100, 5/16", 31 gauge syringes with half-unit markings) at walmart if you have one nearby, or at hocks.com via the colored-box link you'll see on this page (probably top left of page). at hocks.com, gnp is a good brand and probably their cheapest with half-unit markings.

if your cat does not have ketones, expect to start with a dose of 1 unit every 12 hours and test his blood sugar. we can walk you through that. basically, all you do is poke his ear, put a test strip in a blood glucose meter (one for humans you can get at any drugstore or walmart), put the strip against the ear to sip up the blood. we poke all along the edge of the ear, just a little way in. we try to test blood sugar before every insulin injection, and at least one or two times between injections, to see how they're doing on the insulin dose and whether it needs to be increased.
for this you can pick up lancets (30 gauge), cotton balls, and a relion blood glucose meter and test strips at walmart.

there are lots of tips and tricks linked on this page: http://felinediabetes.com/FDMB/viewforum.php?f=14, including one on home testing.

you will save a lot of money this way, and your cat will get better care.
a pretty decent percentage of diabetic cats only need insulin for a short time if they switch to low carb canned food. it is healthier for them, and supplies more of the liquid they need.
 
I did message a few of you as well. BUT I DO STILL NEED ADVICE. Karen, I live in Glendora, Ca (91741) and sent you a message about that too.


UPDATE:
I did get Prince home. My vet put him on NPH which I am now reading about and of which I am not happy with. He also told me to ONLY give him 2 units of insulin in the mornings. (once a day).
When I got him my vet had checked his BG and said it was 238 which was ok... that alone concerned me but knowing the vet's office surroundings could make it higher I didn't worry as much. (BTW it was 369 when I brought him in originally last Mon. 10/19).
OK AS TO THE 2ND CONSULT. I didn't get there because my sister called, who is handicapped. She had locked herself out of her house and I had to go there to help her. I had to cancel my consult for yesterday evening. However, I did get the insulin the doctor told me to get (which was cheap = $24) and I got the BG monitor at Wal Mart last night

NOW TODAY. I got up at 7:30 am to check his BG. that went good too. HOWEVER, I GOT AN AWFUL READING OF 490. I gave him his 2 units of insulin at around 8:00 am 1/2 hour ago. I then called and REMADE that appointment for that 2nd consult for today at 11:00 am. I thought they might need to change this insulin (NPH) if nothing else. I think once a day is NOT GOOD either since he only got insulin yesterday morning (Friday) and none last night. That is why his BG reading was so high MAYBE.
As to symptoms, he is walking around and seems ok. BUT he is drinking water too. NOT as much as before when he would stay at the bowl but sipping off and on some
:cry: I hate going to the 2nd consult since my VET bill from my vet was $525. However, I THINK I need different insulin. I know I could get help here from the group but I feel I might have the wrong insulin.
AS TO KETONES: Tell me more about that. I did ask my vet did he check them and he just looked puzzled. OMG. I feel I am NOT doing good for my baby (Prince). However, and 2nd vet might want to start over and I can't afford another round of that. You know how vets want their own testing, etc.
My vet only did one blood work up when I had originally took him in on Mon. 10/19. After that he did BG readings is all. I do know what those readings were though to tell the 2nd vet.

PLEASE ADVICE: (I am sorry too for being such a bother too.) :dizcat
Candy & Prince
 
You are not being a bother. We ALL felt overwhelmed and scared in the beginning, and we asked lots of questions. and congrats on home testing! Fantastic!

No, NPH is not one of the easy insulins to regulate with. Lantus, PZI or Levemir are much better choices. And almost every cat (except maybe ones going off insulin) require 2 shots a day.

So, the decision to get a new vet is probably the best one. Your old one is just not up to date on current practices. I would call first and find out what insulins they use.

You can test ketones at home. You use the same ketosticks humans pee on. They are available at the drug store We have ways to help you catch Prince's urine.

Meanwhile, breathe. You can test and see how he does during the day. You can make some calls and do some more research here.

You're doing a great job for your Prince.
 
Candy,

I received the pm, but will reply here so everyone can see.

First - you are not being a bother. This is what the board is here for, to help each other out. I was new once too and without going into Maui's story, let's just say, it was a very difficult first few days for us. It was the people on this board that helped me, help Maui and now over 1 year later, Maui is healthy and off insulin.

This is the power of the board and why I stay, to help new people such as yourself.


Now that that is settled - let's get down to what you need to do.

1) Insulin needs to be given twice a day - regardless of the type of insulin being used

Cats metabolize faster than humans and therefore, need shots twice a day.

2) NPH is one of the shortest acting insulins and one that personally I would not recommend using for a cat. While I don't know a lot about it, what I do know is that there are much better insulins available that work better in cats.

When I say short acting, I mean that most insulins will last up to 12 hours in the cat, with NPH you may be looking at an insulin that will last 4-6 hours in the cat. That means the cat will go 6-8 (or in the case of shooting once a day) up to 18 + hours without insulin.

This is no good as this will just make it harder for you to get him regulated.

3) Take your cat to the 2nd vet, bring the 1st vets records and tell them that you want lantus, levemir or prozinc insulin to use.

If you go to the supply closet forum on this board, you may find someone who has extra insulin and will share - so that will save you some expense.

4) it's great that you got a meter and the walmart relion is just fine to use. Now that you are getting the hang of testing, you will only get better at it.

5) change the food to low carb wet under 10% and this will help as well.

WE have lots of people in California, we need to find someone who may be close to you. I'm on the other side of the country in NJ, so I can't make a house call - sorry.

6) when you go out next, pick up ketostix or ketodiastix in the diabetes section of the store - walmart will have them too. And start testing Prince's urine - this will help us to know if he develops ketones. And we can walk you through how to handle that.

7) take a deep breath and know that you just took the first step in helping Prince. And we will help you take the next steps and get you set up.
 
your not alone in this...and you are NOT a bother.
we all needed lots of help at times...especially in the beginning.
keep us posted.
 
Sue, no one hear considers you a bother. You love Oliver and need help. First of all - listen to the members. Get him and take him to the 2nd clinic and let them diagnose him. Your 1st vet means well but, if that ignorant about feline diabetes, could be wrong. Then, if they (2nd clinic) seem knowledgeable,. follow the advice they give you. Second, tell your 1st vet where to learn what he doesn't know: here! - and follow your own advice: read the articles and posts here yourself. Third, don't panic. Good luck!
 
You are definitely not being a bother, we were all freaked out when we first got here, and needed tons of help. So keep asking questions and we will keep holding your hand.

You are doing everything right by Prince, you have taken control into your own hands by home testing and finding a vet that you feel more comfortable working with. More importantly you have found us.

Mel
 
OK I PHONED THE VET. I go in an hour but they say they use PROZINC. Isn't that very expensive insulin? JUST wondering. They did say they can order other insulin if needed. However, should I ask them to do that if the agree to it? It takes a week to get.
THANKS FOR THE ADVICE!~
 
no it's actually quite inexpensive in that the vial mght last you all year!
 
OH THANK YOU Lori. It is good to know that. Anyways, I feel better going to the 2nd doctor. I know that Prozinc is for cats too.

confused_cat NOW ABOUT TESTING FOR KETONES. Is it hard to get a urine sample from my kitty?

BTW...Prince is really going after the water now too. I would test HIS BG level again since I take him anyway to that 2nd vet in 45 mins. I don't want to poke him again since they will too I bet.

HOW DO I DO ALL THIS too, JUGGLE EVERYTHING THAT IS. I am gone from 7 to 4 pm everyday Mon - Fri. for work. ANY SUGGESTIONS...... @-)
 
PZI is a good insulin and is easier in some ways than Lantus as the dose can be adjusted a little more flexibly. Go to the insulin support groups and read the sticky for PZI and how to use it.

We found that Oliver wouldn't pee with an audience. We got some aquarium gravel, put it in the litter box and left him in a room with it. We always got a sample that way.

AS for juggling, you take one thing at a time, breathe, come here to cry and ask for help. It gets easier, promise!
 
Sue
I know ........ I have to do this for Prince. My hubby is worried though since I have high blood pressure that is not controllable. I told him if I don't do this though and give up I will not forgive myself and that would affect my blood pressure worse.
 
first things first.
you have to shoot every 12 hours so pick the best time for you. 5AM 5 PM
this way you can also get a +1 at least before you leave for work. night time is open for a few more tests and always get a test before bedtime.

urine test happen when they happen. sometime in the evening will work fine but if sugars controlled, less chance of ketones (unless your cat is prone to them.

lo carb food. can always freeze and leave out when you go to work or buy a timed feeder.
just some thoughts. this will end up being so routine you will wonder why you were so discombooberated
 
Hi and welcome to the best place you could ever come for help and support! This Board saved my cat's life with their advise and sticking with me and they will help you, too. As to juggling all of this, it is not as difficult as it first seems. You work 7 - 4, so you can schedule his shot, etc. at 6 am and 6 pm, twelve hours apart (or something similar). You are a teacher, so you know how to organize and schedule things - use those strengths. I did it like this: at 5:30 am, feed, test, then shot, done by 6 am and then I did the same thing in the evening. If you are worried about costs for food, I found that Amazon.com has Fancy Feast classic chicken feast (no grains), which is very low carbs and high protein, for a great price and they will deliver free if you order in quantities or on a monthly basis. Their price was about 43 cents per 3 oz can, and if you use the formula guide of 15 calories times the normal, proper weight for your cat, then you can figure out how much you need to feed. For example, my cat should weigh 7 pounds, so 7 x 15 = 105; my cat should eat about 105 calories per day; Fancy Feast 3 oz can has 93.6 calories (according to Janet and binky's charts), so 93.6 divided by 105 equals 1.12 cans a day. I feed her a little more as she is pretty active, so she gets 3/4 of a can in the morning and the same in the evening. You don't have to worry about snacks in between meals, and you can do well with testing her twice a day before her shot. Just stick to a routine and you will find that it becomes easier and easier. Your husband may just be there for you and you don't have to both be doing all of these things for your cat. In fact, sometimes it is better when one person does it so that there are no doubling of doses. I made a chart to put on my refrigerator where I recorded my morning and afternoon routine: time of feeding, amount eaten, BG reading, shot dose. It helped me stay organized and on top of things. [I am a retired teacher, so I know how to organize and do bulletin boards, etc. :lol: ] So, as others have said, just breathe. You can do this. And when you get discouraged or frustrated or have more questions, just come back here and we will offer you help and support. I wish I lived near you, but I am in Oregon, so too far away, but I am with you in spirit. Take care!
 
One thing you can take great comfort in, and give yourself a HUGE pat on the back for, is the home testing. You already have a big part of this working. There are newbies who struggle for weeks, working to get a bg reading. And not being able to get readings is very scary. You aren't shooting blind - you can shoot safely.

The other parts will come. You'll be on here someday soon, telling newbies your story.
 
I did get your Private Message (PM)..

The things you posted in the PM are being addressed here.

She lives in Glendora, CA, folks. (Hope that's OK to post here...we have
lots of CA members).
 
About urine testing, once a cat starts to pee, they keep going. I used to stick a small disposable plastic cup under Maggie once she started peeing. A ladle works good, too.
 
i'm running out the door at the moment but wanted to put this out there so maybe someone can send out some pm's?

becky and aj are in pasadena i believe
jennifer and porky are in duarte (which is real close i think)
check with michelle and scrabble too
sherry and squirt in northridge
 
Ok just got back from vet. Yes, I was gone 5 hours! (and only a 10 minute drive to the place.)

:-D IT IS LOOKING MUCH BETTER NOW.
When I got "Prince" to the vet his BG was ONLY 68. (from the 490 I had the reading of, so low). They said the NPH insulin was an OK insulin for dogs (and not the best) BUT NOT FOR CATS. :o I am so glad I took him to the 2nd consult.The vet I saw there also has a diabetic cat of her own. She she gave me lots of information. They kept him there at the clinic and watched him for 4 hours and did all the testing in office.

This 2nd vet put Prince on PZI one unit AM and PM. They did a complete blood test AGAIN to compare to Mon. and check the ketones which my own vet knew nothing about. :shock: (So a complete urine test with it all). HE DID NOT HAVE KETONES. His urine looked fine too except the possibility of a slight infection for which they gave me pills too. He also was dehydrated so he got some fluids. Since Prince had elevations from Mon. in his blood work they wanted to check that as well; elevations with his kidney functions. Those elevations were up still, from Monday, but not any higher so the vet felt it might be caused by an infection or the diabetes just starting and not treated.

AS TO THE FOOD. They found he needed more protein (from his testing) so the vet didn't want him to go off dry food completely at this point.(I am to put out 1/4 cup a day of dry food for Prince and give him wet food twice a day 1/2 can each time. She said he was not eating enough.

They are going to treat the diabetes and hope with food modification it will improve too. They put him on a new food I have not heard here. I asked her about grain free and all but she said that needs to come later since he needed this new food from the blood work and urine testing they did. As to the food they have him on FOR NOW, sorry, I thought I had it here but will post that later. It was Royal.... something? You can only get it with a prescription. He won't be on it forever just until they bring up his protein levels and postasium levels.
I don't give him insulin tonight (the PZI) since his BG was so low at 68 and the insulin the other doctor gave him was long lasting. I start the PZI tomorrow after I check his BG level.

:mrgreen: I do feel better now about it all and REALLY liked the knowledge of the VET I saw. It was a big expense again but hopefully we are on the right path now. I only wish I had gone to this vet first. It would have saved me from getting wrong information, hospitalization that was not needed and from buying the wrong insulin.

ohmygod_smile My regular vet was really "out of it" how to treat diabetic cats.

I know I will have more questions in the next few days so I will get back to you too when I do.

I want to THANK EVERYONE HERE for your help AND especially those that have posted how they have managed to do this all as well.
MY HUBBY TOLD ME TO TELL ALL OF YOU THANKS TOO. He was amazed I knew so much when talking to the vet. I told him and the vet I had received so much knowledge here. My hubby said "tell them all thanks since it will help me to help you stay clam. :lol:
 
This board gives you lots of information that you don't know as you are learning. I am still new to this myself. One thing that the board has not mentioned yet is the possibility of hypoglycemia. You need to get some Karo syrup, honey, syrup or cake decoratling gel in the event that your cat's numbers get low and he has the symptoms of that. My cat's bg was 561 at his diagnosis. His dose started at 3 units twice a day starting on 9/23/10 and then was increased to 4 units twice a day starting 10/4. He had a seizure during the night on 10/12. I put a little Karo syrup between his teeth and lips and then followed up with high carb wet food with gravy to bring the numbers up. By the time we went to the emergency vet, his bg was 74 so we don't know how low it actually went. Read the post about Hypos that is located toward the top of the list. It really helped us!

Also, when my Himalayan had to give a urine sample, since she was the only cat at the time, I put clear plastic wrap on top of the litter. I overlapped the edge of the box too to try to keep the litter out. Once I saw her go, I rushed to the box and got the sample with an eye dropper before she tried to cover it up. This process worked great with her. It does not work with the 4 cats I have now. When I put the clear wrap on the litter, these think the litter box is out of order. so no sample...Hope it works with yours.

When I have to go to work, I leave a timer feeder out so that there will be a small meal for my cat. I read somewhere that you could do 4 small meals each day. I don't know how effective it really is but it does give me some peace of mind that he has something to eat during the day so that hopefully, his sugar does not bottom out while I am gone.

But i am really new to this so listen to the others on this board. In hindsight, I would go back and start with a low dose as the people on this board recommend. Starting with a high dose and then trying to decrease did not work for us and made me very uncomfortable. When Bo had the seizure, I knew that i had to do home testing and give a lower dose. So listen to your vet but also listen to this group and make decisions that are right for your cat. You are the one who knows your cat. But i bet the people on this board have the best information because they have lived it. Good luck!
 
Please make sure you test Prince in the a.m. before shooting. If your first vet was using N, IT IS NOT a long lasting insulin......shortest acting insulin out there and if Prince was 68 at vet #2, I question whether he truly needs insulin. A starting dose of 1 unit a.m. and p.m. is a great starting dose BUT.....please test him tomorrow before shooting any insulin at all. If in doubt, post here first. Also, is that canned food a 5.5 oz or the little 3oz? If it is the little one, feeding him only 1/2 of that twice a day is not going to help put weight back on him. At his age it can be very hard to get weight back on cats so don't expect too much weight gain.
 
i also agree with Hope and I personally would not be feeding dry food at all. test in AM and post but looks as though kitty may not need insulin. if you feed the food from janet and binky less than 10% carbs, it may just be enough to keep kitty from getting any insulin. if too skinny, just increase amount of food and you can add some water to that also for increase fluid intake since cats do not normally drink a lot of water. dry food will put on weight but adds carbs and other bad stuff and makes the pancreas work harder and you will have a b**ch of a time regulating. you can leave wet food out while at work or freeze some and leave out when you are at work.
just my opinion, but you do what you feel you need to do. you know your cat better than I do.
catch ya later
 
UPDATE:
I checked his BG at 5:00 after I fed him. His BG was 135 :RAHCAT He is not to get any insulin tonight anyway. As mentioned he is "wearing" off or coming down from the old insulin that is long lasting but not the best to be on.
Thank you, :-D I KNOW NOT TO GIVE HIM ANY INSULIN unless I check his BG. The vet told me that too. She said for me not to ever give him insulin UNLESS I can get a reading and that reading MUST BE OVER 250 before I can even give him any insulin then. (EVEN up to 300 she said would be fine too, for now)
I hope regulating his food alone will do it too. However, he is on a low carb food but it does have some corn syrup. As I said he is on it because of the reading the doctor found and won't be on it forever. He doesn't seem to like the dry food anyway. The dry food is the same as the canned. He did eat half of a can (not the small size either) of what the vet prescribe me to feed him.
He seems very tired is all but he has had a big day today too.
 
Correct me if I am wrong but........Prince had a shot on Fri. a.m. of 3 units and you said the vet told you it was N insulin?

If he has not had a shot of insulin since Friday morning, and his bg tonight is only 135, the I really question whether he needs insulin. As I said in the previous post, N insulin is the shortest duration of insulins used, other than R which is used in ER situations by a vet. N insulin is usually in and through long before 12hrs is up so I do not understand why vet #2 told you it was a long lasting insulin. Maybe the vet was talking about the Prozinc?

Thank God you have learned to hometest.
 
He did have a shot of NPH from the 1st vet on Friday morning. They released him that afternoon with his BG level at 238 and gave me insulin that was to be given every day only once. So none Friday evening. HOWEVER, then Saturday morning I read his BG level at home and it was 490 so I gave him the NPH 2 units as told to do. (btw my "old" vet didn't say for me to test his BG level. He told me I could BUT NOT IMPORTANT before the shot. :o
Anyway, I then called and made the appointment with the second vet for a consul too. When I got to the vet my cat's BG level was 68 since insulin was working. However, I found out he is on wrong kind of insulin. (24 hour type more for dogs too). The new insulin I got I am to start tomorrow ONLY after I check his BG LEVEL. If his BG level is above 250 (for now) then I give him the new PZI 12 hour insulin. The new vet also wants to make sure he needs insulin and has him on a special diet since he showed he needed it from his blood work.

I hope I answered your question above; no his last insulin was not Friday morning but was Saturday morning with the old 24 hour acting insulin.
 
candy
maybe I am not understanding you correctly. but.... N or NPH (1 in the same) may be a long acting insulin in dogs but it is in no way long acting in cats. you would be lucky to get 6 hours out of it let alone 12 or 24 hours. no insulin in cats is 24 hours. why?? cause a cats metabolism is so much faster. they process insulin rather quickly. prozinc, lantus and lev are a more gentle insulin but you will get 12 hours out of them. these are not 24 hours either and must be given 2x a day. of course this depends on the reading you get at shot time.
good job on testing. this is where you will gain the knowledge of how your cat is doing. job well done.
off to work. have a good day
 
Thank you for clarifying whether or not Prince had any more insulin. I dread to think of what those 5 units of N your old vet gave him that one day. I'm amazed he didn't hypo. Once again, N is a short duration insulin. Also, could you please start a new thread when you post this a.m.?
 
If your vet wants you to use PZI, please go to the PZI forum and read over the stickies. Those folks will have the most experience with PZI (my cat is/was on Lantus)

PZI
 
Using prozinc is a good insulin choice.

I do disagree with the need for dry food and the need for prescription food. You are wasting your money with prescription food - the good news, you can return it for a refund - just tell them the cat doesn't like it.

Now as for what food to use. You can feed economical food such as canned fancy feast and friskies without issue, and you can feed more expensive canned foods such as wellness, etc.

What you want to do is use foods that are under 10% carbs. You can look it up on this link:

http://www.felinediabetes.com/diabetic-cat-diets.htm

And feed him more than you normally would, as he may be hungier than usual.

If it helps - I've used the following low carb foods:

Fancy Feast - classic flavors - such as turkey & giblets, beef feast, chicken feast, etc.

Friskies (I use special diet for low phosphorus) - turkey & giblets

On the pricier side - I use nature's logic (not on the link above), but I figured it out to be in the 0-3% carb range.

I also add lots of water to the canned food - one to ensure cat gets enough water in system, two to keep the food moist for long periods of time. Yes, it promotes lots of pee, but pee in a good way not bad way.


Hope this helps.
 
Hi Candy and Prince (and DH, of course!) and welcome to FDMB!!!

First off, let me say I haven't actually treated a diabetic cat for about 8 years, so I am WAYYYYY out of practice and know NOTHING about the new insulins, but I can say without doubt that you are in the right place! There are so many people here with firsthand knowledge, and we are an international community, and we are a family, and someone is up at almost any hour, and we are not shy with our opinions!

So, that said, IMO, the best thing you can do is hometest. Hometesting saved my cat's life on multiple occasions. I made the somewhat uncomfortable (at the time) decision to put my cat on wet food only. I changed him to a high quality high-protein diet, and he actually became diet-controlled (and off of insulin altogether). I could not have accomplished this without hometesting. So you are definitely off on the right foot! I know questions will arise as you make your journey with Prince, and we will be here when they do. Congrats on your successes, I'm sure there will be many more to come!

Purrs,
Karen, dB in spirit, Bindi (epileptic), and Dorje (fiv+)
(I'm a sucker for special needs...)
 
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