JanetNJ
Member Since 2016
She's lucky to have you helping!
Please help my Charlie!
- Thread starter Nina.Felz
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Diane Tyler's Mom GA
Member Since 2018
Morning Janet, yep Dr Sass did work there, , I would go to Rutherford Animal also, then she left and I was seeing Dr Patrone
Then found out Dr Berber sold RAH , and opened up Carlstadt , He asked Dr
Sass to join him. I then went to her .
Dr Beeber still goes to RAH , once a week I think. Corporate bought it.
I'm sure he still must have a part of it or some type of agreement.
Who knows.
JanetNJ
Member Since 2016
In all the years I have gone there I only had dr Beeber once... He treated my hamster almost 30 years ago. Lol. Dr Petrone is good. She removed a cancerous mass off CC'S leg this past summer. She also diagnosed CC with diabetes, although she wasn't too up on diabetes treatment at the time. Very nice bedside manner though.
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Ana & Frosty (GA)
Member Since 2018
Good to “see” you, Janet! Thanks for the info. I told Nina to consider taking him to IM at Oradel animal hospital if all else fails, but I appreciate all the local recs! That’s the only good hospital I know up there. I grew up in River Edge but my childhood cat was pretty healthy so we didn’t really take him to the vet much, lol. I hope her friend who is a vet is willing to listen and work with us. Anyway, I’m so glad CC is doing well still! Amazing. I always wonder about the kitties who were around back in 2018 when I used to come here. I know a few have passed on. But yeah, it’s my turn to pay forward all the things I learned here
Diane Tyler's Mom GA
Member Since 2018
I used to see Beeber when I had my cat Jake ,that was a long time ago
I agree with you about Dr Petrine.
I did have to take Tyler there last year because he had stuff coming out of his
eyes , I saw Dr Tancredi , I did like her.
Cinnie Cole
Member Since 2019
Dr. Pomerantz at Franklin Lakes Animal Hospital. Entire staff is fantastic. We went through two practices before we found Dr. P. (recommendation of our pet sitter) Great practice. He worked with us through to Zoot!'s remission.
Hello everyone! Just wanted to give an update on Charlie. I am picking him up from the vet within the next hour. The new vet is wonderful! He prescribed prozinc and different syringes. Charlie has been responding well. He is going back to the same vet tomorrow to get more fluids. The vet said that he has a lot of sugar in his urine and that could be a factor for the seizures. So tomorrow he will have the catheter again in the IV for fluids. I have been in contact with Ana throughout the day keeping her in the loop. Please everybody keep Charlie in your hearts tonight! I strongly believe he will get through this tough time.
Cinnie Cole
Member Since 2019
Glad you found a vet you like! That is so important. Hope Charlie does well tonight!
Hi everyone. Since Charlie has been home he is having full blown seizures. He has been convulsing with his mouth open almost as if he looks to sneeze And drooling. His body has been convulsing so bad that he completely goes in the air. The vet explain he might have a seizure tonight due to the switch but it is much worse than his previous seizures. He ate a can of fancy feast. 2 minutes later he had his first seizure since being home. He had another one 13 minutes later. And then another one 45 minutes later and had another one immediately after that one while drooling a lot. They only last about 7-11 seconds, i have been timing and journaling his everything he does now. These seizures however are much Shorter than previously but more “violent”. Every time he come out of one he eats a few mouthfuls of fancy feast and drinks some water. Please, if anyone has some advice
Bron and Sheba (GA)
Member Since 2015
I have never heard of a cat having seizures from swapping insulins or from having too much sugar in his urine.
Have you given him any honey or Karo? Rub some on his gums please!
Have you given him any honey or Karo? Rub some on his gums please!
Yes, i have Karo. I have been rubbing it on his gums after every seizure. Is that too much?
Bron and Sheba (GA)
Member Since 2015
I am surprised it is not helping.
Did the new vet give insulin? how long ago? and how much?
Is there an ER vet you can take him to now? He really needs vet care urgently.
Bron and Sheba (GA)
Member Since 2015
Do you have the glucose meter with you to take a reading of the blood glucose?
Bron and Sheba (GA)
Member Since 2015
Nina, are you still there?
Yes, the vet gave new insulin 6 hours ago. 2 units of prozinc every 12 hours. The closest to be is a bit far. But Charlie already had an appointment to go back tomorrow morning for more monitoring
Bron and Sheba (GA)
Member Since 2015
I think 2 units is far too much for him after what happened yesterday.
Do you have the meter to test the blood sugar with you?
Bron and Sheba (GA)
Member Since 2015
Nina I am wondering if something else might be going on with Charlie.
If you are not able to get a BG reading to establish if he is hypo or not, I really think you should take him to the ER even if it is a bit of a drive away. Take the food and Karo with you.
He needs vet attention now, tomorrow might be too late.
It is not normal for a cat who has switched insulins to have a seizure.....unless from a hypo.
If you are not able to get a BG reading to establish if he is hypo or not, I really think you should take him to the ER even if it is a bit of a drive away. Take the food and Karo with you.
He needs vet attention now, tomorrow might be too late.
It is not normal for a cat who has switched insulins to have a seizure.....unless from a hypo.
Unfortunately, some of my family members work nights and need to borrow cars. I do not have a way of getting there. I have sent an email to the vet of the log and videos of the recent episodes. She just replied saying that she most certain that. the blood sugar is low. She said that he had the same exact seizure there while he was being examined. They gave me the fancy feast gravy at the vet so he is eating it now like a champ and drinking water. I’m just so confused and trying to keep him as comfortable as possible
Red & Rover (GA)
Member Since 2016
Did Ana manage to get the meter to you?
I got home from the vet pretty late at night and she live an hour + more away from me. She also has a family so I didn’t want her to come so late on that type of drive. She is coming tomorrow
Bron and Sheba (GA)
Member Since 2015
Do you have the meter to test him.....can you answer this please?
I would continue to feed him and rub Karo on his gums. The insulin can work for 12 hours.
I WOULD DEFINITELY NOT GIVE HIM ANY MORE INSULIN AT THE MOMENT...PLEASE DO NOT GIVE HIM A DOSE IN THE MORNING. Cats that have had hypos, especially symptomatic hypos are very sensitive to insulin.
Can you answer the question about the meter please?
If you don’t have one yet, can Ana come over and test him?
Bron and Sheba (GA)
Member Since 2015
Can your husband drive over and get the meter? It is really important we find out what the blood sugar is, so we can try and help Charlie.
This is not something that can be left til the morning
Bron and Sheba (GA)
Member Since 2015
Oh I forgot you don’t have a car! Sorry!
Well as you can’t take him anywhere or go out and get the meter, I think we have to assume he is having a hypo and keep feeding him and rubbing Karo on his gums to try and bring him up high enough that the seizures stop.
Did you read the post I wrote above about not giving any more insulin for now?
Nina would you mind posting every so often and keeping us informed as to how Charlie is please? We worry a lot about our kitties. I will be around for the next 6 hours.
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Red & Rover (GA)
Member Since 2016
Did the vet test the cat's blood glucose after the seizure she saw?
After you get a meter tomorrow, if your cat has a seizure, immediately test his blood glucose before he eats anything.
After you get a meter tomorrow, if your cat has a seizure, immediately test his blood glucose before he eats anything.
Bron and Sheba (GA)
Member Since 2015
How is Charlie going Nina?
JanetNJ
Member Since 2016
Omg why is he still on 2 units??? Don't give any more insulin until you are home testing please!! He is being overdosed!!!
He may be overly sensitive to insulin for several days. I wouldn't give any insulin for a few days and just learn to test. Then start over at half of a unit of he's above normal.
I just don't understand why this vet told you to continue with two units when clearly that was too much and double the recommend starting dose. WTF
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Cinnie Cole
Member Since 2019
Nina, if you need help/support, please let me know. I am in Closter.
Ana & Frosty (GA)
Member Since 2018
Hi guys, just catching up now. To be honest, I am also worried that something else might be going on that is not related to the diabetes or insulin. I will bring her the meter today no matter what. Nina said at the vet the blood sugar was 500, I wonder if this was a bounce from him going too low the night before. Either way, if he has more seizures tonight we will be able to test him and see what is really going on. I was hoping since he was at the vet and being monitored he would be ok for the night, but I realize now i should have brought the meter last night. I’ll try to pick up a meter from Walmart and also bring my AT2. Keep us posted on how he’s doing, Nina
Ana & Frosty (GA)
Member Since 2018
I’m guessing because they switched the insulin, and because he was 500 at the vet, but it could have been a bounce
Critter Mom
Member Since 2014
Plus there's also the possibility of vet stress temporarily elevating numbers.
I hope Charlie is OK.
Ana, if you're going to Walmart maybe you might also be able to pick up some ketone test strips (assuming Nina doesn't already have any). If Charlie needs to skip a few cycles while his BG status is being determined it's a wise safety precaution to check he's ketone-free.
Mogs
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Ana & Frosty (GA)
Member Since 2018
At the vet they checked snd he had a lot of ketones. So maybe that’s why he’s seizing... he’s getting IV fluids today so hopefully that will help flush them out. We are gonna be monitoring his sugar tonight so we will see what’s going on.
Critter Mom
Member Since 2014
Thank goodness they caught the ketones!
Quick heads-up: They need to make sure that he's not in DKA before he can come home. If he is in DKA he'll need intensive hospital treatment to restore normal metabolic function. (Fingers and paws crossed they caught the ketosis soon enough.) Helpful info:
Ketones, DKA and Ketone Meters
Ketosis typically occurs in the following circumstances:
Not enough insulin + not enough food + infection/inflammation or other systemic stressor
It's important to ask the vets whether they've checked for any infection/inflammation present (and to get treatment for any issue uncovered). Common culprits are UTIs or dental issues but that's not an exhaustive list.
Ketosis can make a cat feel really nauseated. It would be a good idea for Nina to ask for some anti-nausea meds (Cerenia or ondansetron) and an appetite stimulant to take home, just in case Charlie might need a little help in the eating department while he's convalescing. Getting enough food and insulin (at a safe dose!) are critical to recovery and prevention of relapse.
Mogs
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Ana & Frosty (GA)
Member Since 2018
He seems to be eating well and hasn’t thrown up. His only symptom is the seizures, which is why I think the vet wanted to see them back again today for more IV fluids. Nina said they lowered the dose to 1 unit, and we will start testing tonight to see if the dose is still too high or just right. One advantage of proZinc over lantus is that I believe proZinc doesn’t stay in their system as long as Lantus does? I would have to review the proZinc guidelines as I never used this insulin with my cat.
Diane Tyler's Mom GA
Member Since 2018
Been following this post, that poor kitty, I pray he's going to be alright.
My heart sank when I read how many seizures he had last night♥
My heart sank when I read how many seizures he had last night♥
Critter Mom
Member Since 2014
Very glad to hear Charlie's eating OK. That's huge.
I've not used Prozinc either, Ana, but you're correct that it's not a depot insulin. I've seen posts by experienced Prozinc users advising that the dose duration is c.10-14 hours.
Mogs
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I've not used Prozinc either, Ana, but you're correct that it's not a depot insulin. I've seen posts by experienced Prozinc users advising that the dose duration is c.10-14 hours.
Mogs
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Diane Tyler's Mom GA
Member Since 2018
@JanetNJ
@Critter Mom
@Bron and Sheba (GA)
Hi ladies I see that Ana said the vet dropped the prozinc to 1 unit, do you think that's
still too high?
@Critter Mom
@Bron and Sheba (GA)
Hi ladies I see that Ana said the vet dropped the prozinc to 1 unit, do you think that's
still too high?
Diane Tyler's Mom GA
Member Since 2018
Hi Ana did you pick up the ketone strips
JanetNJ
Member Since 2016
That's the recommended starting dose and with having ketones I wouldn't go lower unless testing shows its too much.
Diane Tyler's Mom GA
Member Since 2018
Ana & Frosty (GA)
Member Since 2018
He’s still at the vet, I’m home with my daughter right now waiting for my husband to come home. Then I’ll go out to get supplies. You mean urine ketone strips? I used to have a blood ketone meter because I couldn’t really catch Frosty in the litter box since I was working, but I gave away everything after Frosty died. I’ll see if they have it at Walmart, but I’m not sure if Nina is gonna be able to use them or not. I def wanna pick up the ReliOn meter, and she actually said she received the AT2 meter in the mail today, so either way we should be at least able to get some info.
Critter Mom
Member Since 2014
I'm in the UK so haven't a clue whether Walmart do ketone meters, Ana.
Whether Nina opts for a BBK meter or urine ketone strips, now that it's known that Charlie is ketone-prone he will need daily monitoring for safety, at least for the time being.
Like you, I got a BBK meter. Strips are pricey, but I think a meter is a really good investment because you can check ketones on demand, and also because ketones may be picked up a bit sooner than in the urine.
Mogs
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Bron and Sheba (GA)
Member Since 2015
The vets really need to establish whether the seizures are from a hypo or another cause.
And I am really surprised they let him come home with a lot of ketones. I do have to question whether the vet knows much about feline diabetes.
If there are a lot of ketones in the urine, the insulin dose shouldn’t be lowered unless the data is saying the BG is low, but with the seizures, it’s a catch 22. That’s why they need to establish the cause of the seizures. If it’s from another cause, they can probably give him some phenobarbital to control the seizures. And also blood work to see if it is progressing to DKA.
And I am really surprised they let him come home with a lot of ketones. I do have to question whether the vet knows much about feline diabetes.
If there are a lot of ketones in the urine, the insulin dose shouldn’t be lowered unless the data is saying the BG is low, but with the seizures, it’s a catch 22. That’s why they need to establish the cause of the seizures. If it’s from another cause, they can probably give him some phenobarbital to control the seizures. And also blood work to see if it is progressing to DKA.
Ana & Frosty (GA)
Member Since 2018
Right, I agree, but the issue for an extensive Workup is $$$. My dog has seizures and the MRI cost is $4000 (he has a brain tumor). Plus this vet isn’t in a teaching hospital, so they likely don’t have access to any imaging. The vet did see the seizures and says it’s diabetes related. Nina also said the vet agrees that the 500 BG was a bounce, and she was actually giving her good tips about checking blood sugar (warming the ear, etc) at home, so she’s actually FOR home testing, which I feel is rare for a vet, so to me it seems to me she is well versed in DM compared to many others. However, I’m not there and am just getting the info from Nina, so I can’t say for sure. I think once we start home test we will know more. They are also checking all the values while he is at the hospital today. Nina said she was told his numbers are better and he is responding to treatment, I don’t have the exact details but I’ll find out more. I agree it’s a catch 22 with the insulin dose. But I think if ketones are decreasing and we test tonight we will know if he’s going low or not. I think we are on the right track but we were starting off with a disadvantage because he was on the wrong insulin and we have no idea what it was doing to his sugars.
Bron and Sheba (GA)
Member Since 2015
I’m so glad you are there to be able to help and advise Ana.
Once they can do home testing that will make things much clearer. If Nina needs help setting up a SS @Bandit's Mom will help.
If he’s still seizing and the BGs are not low, then it could be epilepsy (for example). But it is strange that it started with the insulin and does suggest that it could be related to the diabetes.
I’m sure they are very worried, and they are lucky to have you.
Sending many vines for improvement and a full recovery.
Diane Tyler's Mom GA
Member Since 2018
Please keep us updated Ana, I'm so thankful Nina has you there to help her
Ana & Frosty (GA)
Member Since 2018
I agree, if the seizures don’t go away I will suggest that they take him to Oradell Animal Hospital, which would have imaging, but of course only if they can afford it. The only reason we did the MRI for my dog (twice) is because we have insurance for him. Otherwise we probably would have just treated with medication and hoped for the best. Potentially if seizures don’t go away with normal BG, they could just start him on seizure medication and see how he does. I figured we would get some numbers and then contact the vet. I hope they’re doing a curve while he’s there too, they probably are. Thanks everyone for your help! We will keep you posted.
JanetNJ
Member Since 2016
Oradell is really expensive. I think blue pearl might be a little more reasonable if you are looking for an emergency place.
Ana & Frosty (GA)
Member Since 2018
I know, I mean if she wants a full workup. If not, I would probably try to work with her current vet.
Bron and Sheba (GA)
Member Since 2015
How is Charlie going ?
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