My cat gets Lantus .5 twice a day at 11 am and 11 pm He is on antibiotics and his appetite has decreased. He last ate at around 6pm. I spot tested before and it was at 151. Two hours later it is at 130. I am concerned and I do not know what to do. I tried to get him to eat and has no interest.
Please Help. Don't Know What To Do
- Thread starter Happycats
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Just-As-Appy
Active Member
Did you give him his insulin tonight? If so, did you give his usual dose? His last # isn't dangerous, but I would keep monitoring every half hour. I don't have a great deal of experience, but wanted to let you know that someone else is on. Hopefully others with more experience will be too.
Diana and Merlin (GA)
Member
How long ago did you give him his shot?
Oops, just read it again, so you gave him his shot at 11 pm and now at +3 he's at 116?
Oops, just read it again, so you gave him his shot at 11 pm and now at +3 he's at 116?
Just-As-Appy
Active Member
Hopefully you have tested again and he is not dropping faster or further. Is there anything that he has been particularly keen on - even some Fancy Feast with gravy might tempt him.
In the longer term (like tomorrow) you may want to talk to your vet about having his decreased appetite. It may be related to the antibiotics, and something like Pepcid might help. Fortiflora also seems to help some cats.
In the longer term (like tomorrow) you may want to talk to your vet about having his decreased appetite. It may be related to the antibiotics, and something like Pepcid might help. Fortiflora also seems to help some cats.
Diana and Merlin (GA)
Member
This is normal with Lantus.
Do you have a spreadsheet or profile for your kitty that we can take a look at?
Do you have a spreadsheet or profile for your kitty that we can take a look at?
Cheryl and Winnie
Very Active Member
the lantus usu. doesn't kick in until +4 ( 4 hours after you have given it )
and the nadir (peak action of the insulin ) is at +6-+8 .
you shot at "11pm" -- what time zone are you in? ( please list the numbers you get as "+" from the time of shot)
please read and print out both the signs of hypo and hypo toolbox so if your kitty does drop ( and so far numbers are ok ) you will be prepared. you will have to scroll up for the start of the thread:
http://www.felinediabetes.com/phorum5/r ... msg-859277
Right now you are fine. but put on some
and let's see if he eats:
here are some ideas from a previous post of mine to try and get some food into your cat :
Remember -- getting to the bottom of why he is not eating is most important. That way you can treat the underlying cause ( or symptoms of underlying cause) . It is always very important to get cats to eat, as they can quickly develop hepatic lipidosis from lack of food.
Here are some things you can do do entice your cat to eat) :
-sometimes in order to get a cat to eat you even have to resort to dry it is more important that they eat. there are a couple low carb / grain free brands -- EVO and wellness core.
-making a buffet to give him choices
- heating food
sprinkle food with :
- forta flora -- a probiotic you can get at vets or online. is very smelly and cats love the taste of it.
- parm. cheese
- smashed crumbles of dry food
- bonito tuna flakes
- halo chicken treats -- crumble into dust over food -- my Wolfie loves this stuff.
- poor a little water from tuna in water over food ( I use low sodium/no sodium added as other kinds in water has veg. broth in it and I assume that means onions, which are toxic to cats-- check labels)
-powdered oregano. yep sounds weird . but some cats like it and it will entice them to eat.
other ideas of foods to offer your kitty to stim appy:
- trader joe tuna for cats
-baby food -- beechnut turkey and broth or chicken and broth. they have no onions or other additives. some babyfoods have onions . please read labels if you can't find beechnut.
- kentucky fried chicken
- deli turkey /chicken
- plain cooked ( boiled or baked ) chicken breast
-canned chicken for people (watch the label that their are no onions)
- chicken broth -- low sodium
If enticements don't work, you should consider:
-assist feeding ( syringe or make little meatballs and place in mouth)
-and/or talking to your vet about appetite stimulents ( mirtazapine or cyproheptidine)
and if those fail talking to your vet about feeding tubes
- Here is Dr. Lisa's link on feeding tubes :
http://www.catinfo.org/?link=feedingtubes
Please post back w/ numbers and let us know how your kitty is doing.
and the nadir (peak action of the insulin ) is at +6-+8 .
you shot at "11pm" -- what time zone are you in? ( please list the numbers you get as "+" from the time of shot)
please read and print out both the signs of hypo and hypo toolbox so if your kitty does drop ( and so far numbers are ok ) you will be prepared. you will have to scroll up for the start of the thread:
http://www.felinediabetes.com/phorum5/r ... msg-859277
Right now you are fine. but put on some
and let's see if he eats: here are some ideas from a previous post of mine to try and get some food into your cat :
Remember -- getting to the bottom of why he is not eating is most important. That way you can treat the underlying cause ( or symptoms of underlying cause) . It is always very important to get cats to eat, as they can quickly develop hepatic lipidosis from lack of food.
Here are some things you can do do entice your cat to eat) :
-sometimes in order to get a cat to eat you even have to resort to dry it is more important that they eat. there are a couple low carb / grain free brands -- EVO and wellness core.
-making a buffet to give him choices
- heating food
sprinkle food with :
- forta flora -- a probiotic you can get at vets or online. is very smelly and cats love the taste of it.
- parm. cheese
- smashed crumbles of dry food
- bonito tuna flakes
- halo chicken treats -- crumble into dust over food -- my Wolfie loves this stuff.
- poor a little water from tuna in water over food ( I use low sodium/no sodium added as other kinds in water has veg. broth in it and I assume that means onions, which are toxic to cats-- check labels)
-powdered oregano. yep sounds weird . but some cats like it and it will entice them to eat.
other ideas of foods to offer your kitty to stim appy:
- trader joe tuna for cats
-baby food -- beechnut turkey and broth or chicken and broth. they have no onions or other additives. some babyfoods have onions . please read labels if you can't find beechnut.
- kentucky fried chicken
- deli turkey /chicken
- plain cooked ( boiled or baked ) chicken breast
-canned chicken for people (watch the label that their are no onions)
- chicken broth -- low sodium
If enticements don't work, you should consider:
-assist feeding ( syringe or make little meatballs and place in mouth)
-and/or talking to your vet about appetite stimulents ( mirtazapine or cyproheptidine)
and if those fail talking to your vet about feeding tubes
- Here is Dr. Lisa's link on feeding tubes :
http://www.catinfo.org/?link=feedingtubes
Please post back w/ numbers and let us know how your kitty is doing.
Diana and Merlin (GA)
Member
Do you know what his normal nadir numbers are (the lowest point in his BG curve)?
Pam and Layla
Active Member
Do you have some cheese or tuna juice you can sprinkle/pour on his food?
Try other food if you have something - canned tuna/salmon/chicken, etc., or, if you have any deli meat - human food - roast, ham, turkey, chicken, etc., try to see if that will get his attention. If you have any leftover turkey in the freezer - try warming that - my cats prefer dark meat.
The drop doesn't appear to be a fast drop, but, if you go to bed I would urge you to set the alarm and test again in an hour or two max.
You know how to keep him safe if he drops too much? Do you have high carb food/Karo - honey - pancake syrup handy if needed?
Also, I suggest you call or see the vet first thing in the morning to address the lack of appetite. She can give you rx to go to the drug store to get an appetite stimulent.
Hang in there - sometimes, they like to test us and it is often in the middle of the night.
Best,
Pam & Layla
Try other food if you have something - canned tuna/salmon/chicken, etc., or, if you have any deli meat - human food - roast, ham, turkey, chicken, etc., try to see if that will get his attention. If you have any leftover turkey in the freezer - try warming that - my cats prefer dark meat.
The drop doesn't appear to be a fast drop, but, if you go to bed I would urge you to set the alarm and test again in an hour or two max.
You know how to keep him safe if he drops too much? Do you have high carb food/Karo - honey - pancake syrup handy if needed?
Also, I suggest you call or see the vet first thing in the morning to address the lack of appetite. She can give you rx to go to the drug store to get an appetite stimulent.
Hang in there - sometimes, they like to test us and it is often in the middle of the night.
Best,
Pam & Layla
Sweetgrass & the Furries
Active Member
Hello.
I know this is scary.
has your kitty had any food at all?
Is h showing interest in food?
If the answer is no, then I would call an emergency shelter and talk to them about what they suggest.
You are not in an emergency situation yet, but without being able to give food to bring the levels back up, you don't have a lot of options other than syringing a little karo in his mouth if he drops below about 40 or shows any signs of hypo...inability to wake him easilly,lethargy, little weird repeatative movements, walks in circles, siezures......have a good read through of the list that Cheryl lnked you too.
will chekc back in a few.....you are not alone here.
(((hugs)))
I know this is scary.
has your kitty had any food at all?
Is h showing interest in food?
If the answer is no, then I would call an emergency shelter and talk to them about what they suggest.
You are not in an emergency situation yet, but without being able to give food to bring the levels back up, you don't have a lot of options other than syringing a little karo in his mouth if he drops below about 40 or shows any signs of hypo...inability to wake him easilly,lethargy, little weird repeatative movements, walks in circles, siezures......have a good read through of the list that Cheryl lnked you too.
will chekc back in a few.....you are not alone here.
(((hugs)))
Sweetgrass & the Furries
Active Member
I am also concerned that his appetite is so off on antibiotics...what are they treating and do you know the name of the antibiotics..sometimes they do not agree with our kitties?
Have you been testing for ketones as well?
Have you been testing for ketones as well?
Just-As-Appy
Active Member
Another way to get a little food into him that might start him eating is to dip your finger in his wet food and wipe it on the roof of his mouth. Be sure your finger nail is very short. You might both end up wearing some food, but he will clean himself and get some from that as well. Its not perfect, but sometimes get the taste buds working.
Diana and Merlin (GA)
Member
I would test him again and read over the info for Hypoglycemia.
How is he acting otherwise?
Have you tried enticing him with any of the products mentioned above?
How is he acting otherwise?
Have you tried enticing him with any of the products mentioned above?
Sweetgrass & the Furries
Active Member
Good news he has eaten something.
Lantus has a long duration,still working up to 12 hours after shot... so yes indeed...keep testing, I would check every 30 minutes to ensure the drop has slowed down and then see him through as you can test as long as the levels are stable and above about 60.
The food should do well now to balance things better.
Do try the tricks to get him to eat, and also I would encourage you to call the vet in the morning and tlak about why he is not feeling good and his not eating.
You are doing great..perhaps brew some tea or set your alarm and keep a close eye. There is a lot of duration for this dose and with less than normal food.
The levels of your tests will show if the food is helping. it takes about 20 minutes for it to start to kick in.
Now in the morning..he may be a little higher because of all this, but please consider a reduced dose if he is not eating much, and perhaps get a ketone test if you can?
I am off to bed....... paws are crossed for an uneventful evening.
Lantus has a long duration,still working up to 12 hours after shot... so yes indeed...keep testing, I would check every 30 minutes to ensure the drop has slowed down and then see him through as you can test as long as the levels are stable and above about 60.
The food should do well now to balance things better.
Do try the tricks to get him to eat, and also I would encourage you to call the vet in the morning and tlak about why he is not feeling good and his not eating.
You are doing great..perhaps brew some tea or set your alarm and keep a close eye. There is a lot of duration for this dose and with less than normal food.
The levels of your tests will show if the food is helping. it takes about 20 minutes for it to start to kick in.
Now in the morning..he may be a little higher because of all this, but please consider a reduced dose if he is not eating much, and perhaps get a ketone test if you can?
I am off to bed....... paws are crossed for an uneventful evening.
Thanks everyone for all your help.
I did take him into the emergency room. They said his glucose was fine. It was 160.
They also mentioned how home monitors could vary by 20 points.
This diabetes is still so new to me and there is so much that I don't understand.
Thanks again.
I did take him into the emergency room. They said his glucose was fine. It was 160.
They also mentioned how home monitors could vary by 20 points.
This diabetes is still so new to me and there is so much that I don't understand.
Thanks again.
I know when a kitty doesn't eat it gets very very scary especially when insulin is involved. If your kitty was on antibiotics then it cud have just made him feel a bit icky when an upset tummy. This is a common side effect to the meds unfortunately. Has you kitty been smacking his lips or exessively drooling. This just means they are feeling yucky.
I had a kitty that would not eat for six weeks (mind you not diabetic) but you wud be surprised how long a kitty can go with out food. I would recommend though that you might want to wait to give the insulin until he takes a couple good bites. This is what I do with Dakota... He sometimes gets an upset tummy or just doesn't want to eat right away. Fortunately though he has always ate for me even if I had to seat down and stroke him to keep him interested in the food.
I had a kitty that would not eat for six weeks (mind you not diabetic) but you wud be surprised how long a kitty can go with out food. I would recommend though that you might want to wait to give the insulin until he takes a couple good bites. This is what I do with Dakota... He sometimes gets an upset tummy or just doesn't want to eat right away. Fortunately though he has always ate for me even if I had to seat down and stroke him to keep him interested in the food.
Sweetgrass & the Furries
Active Member
Actually I wanted to add that a cat can get hepatic lipidosis by not eating for 24 hours....it is crucial they eat something. more info here..
http://www.felinediabetes.com/hepatic.htm
That and the concern that ketones will show up which can lead to diabetic keto acidosis ( DKA )really quickly, are all really good reasons to talk to your vet if your kitty is not eating.
I am wondering, with the lower levels you are seeing at what is quite a small starting dose, if perhaps you have a transient diabetic on your hands brought about by perhaps the initlal problem that you are giving antibiotics for.
Can you tell us a bit about why you went to the vet originally, what is being treated and what the blood glucose levels were at time of diagnosis?
We see this quite a bit here...a cat gets something like a urinary tract infection.
This causes stress on the body which in turn raises the blood glucose and the vet sees worrying levels and offers insulin and antibiotics.
Meanwhile, once the antibiotics start to work and clears up the UTI -the blood glucose levels lower once more and the cat has a couple of close calls hypo wise while the owner catches up to the idea that the kitty is not needing as much insulin anymore and reduces dose, hopefully to not needing a dose anymore.
Another thing that causes illness and diabetes, is chronic pancreatitis- a great info page here...http://www.felinediabetes.com/phorum5/r ... 722,876722
Going off food, is often seen in conjunction with a pancreatitis flare up
My kitty had a version of this.
The worry I have for you is the lack of eating, and the antibiotics treating an infection? this opens the possibility for this to lead to ketones.
Are you testing for them? it is quite an easy pee stick test...here is some more info about that as well..
http://felinediabetes.com/ketones.htm
I really recommend reading as much of that as possible and ask lots of questions. We all will try to help sort through it to find the issues for your kitty.
how is he feeling/eating etc today?
Did you get any sleep at all? ((hugs))
Kimmee
http://www.felinediabetes.com/hepatic.htm
That and the concern that ketones will show up which can lead to diabetic keto acidosis ( DKA )really quickly, are all really good reasons to talk to your vet if your kitty is not eating.
I am wondering, with the lower levels you are seeing at what is quite a small starting dose, if perhaps you have a transient diabetic on your hands brought about by perhaps the initlal problem that you are giving antibiotics for.
Can you tell us a bit about why you went to the vet originally, what is being treated and what the blood glucose levels were at time of diagnosis?
We see this quite a bit here...a cat gets something like a urinary tract infection.
This causes stress on the body which in turn raises the blood glucose and the vet sees worrying levels and offers insulin and antibiotics.
Meanwhile, once the antibiotics start to work and clears up the UTI -the blood glucose levels lower once more and the cat has a couple of close calls hypo wise while the owner catches up to the idea that the kitty is not needing as much insulin anymore and reduces dose, hopefully to not needing a dose anymore.
Another thing that causes illness and diabetes, is chronic pancreatitis- a great info page here...http://www.felinediabetes.com/phorum5/r ... 722,876722
Going off food, is often seen in conjunction with a pancreatitis flare up
My kitty had a version of this.
The worry I have for you is the lack of eating, and the antibiotics treating an infection? this opens the possibility for this to lead to ketones.
Are you testing for them? it is quite an easy pee stick test...here is some more info about that as well..
http://felinediabetes.com/ketones.htm
I really recommend reading as much of that as possible and ask lots of questions. We all will try to help sort through it to find the issues for your kitty.
how is he feeling/eating etc today?
Did you get any sleep at all? ((hugs))
Kimmee
BJM
Very Active Member
Happycats said:
Actually, they mean the glucometer may vary 20 % from the real level. This is the amount the FDA allows a glucometer to vary around a "true" value.
So,
100 means blood glucose is between 80 and 120, a range of 40 points
200 means blood glucose is between 160 and 240, a range of 80 points
300 means blood glucose is between 240 and 360, a range of 120 points
400 means blood glucose is between 320 and 480, a range of 160 points
and so on.
Jen & Squeak
Very Active Member
I really wish you'd come back so we can help you. Panicking is not going to help, but knowledge and a plan WILL.
Jen
Jen
Sue and Oliver (GA)
Very Active Member
Agree with Jen. Come back, ask questions. We can help you with a spreadsheet so you can start to make sense out of his numbers.
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