Please help DCIN help Billie.

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Its a long story with her health the last ten days or so but here it is in a nutshell.

My cat was diagnosed with fatty liver disease. After $3,000 in various hospital bills (DKA last week, brought on by my following some overnight emergency vet's bad advice about not feeding her for over twelve hours and not giving insulin - after she vomited up some treats she had never had before) I was told that her only hope to turn things around now is a feeding tube. That would require several days more hospitalization and more money, The feeding tube alone is $1500. I'm simply out of credit, as is my family and we just cannot do it. I would do anything to save this cat but I am completely out of money. I brought her home last night in hopes that she would eat for me.She ate a few meals last night but today she won't. She has interest in the food but can't eat it. She's on zofran for nausea, an appetite stimulant and a few other things for her liver and an antibiotic, etc but I don't know how to give fluids. She's most likely dehydrated and I'm sure her condition is deteriorating.

Her regular vet at the hospital thought that if she started eating there's hope to turn this around but she didn't expect her to start eating. on her own.

She asked me if I wanted to learn to give fluids but I said no because she's a difficult cat and I think it was only a formality and the vet just expects her to die without the feeding tube. I reasearhed syringe feeding and it didn't go too badlyalthough she angry. The only thing is I put fancy feast in there and I'm pretty sure I would need a prescription for ADspecial food which is nutrient rich for syringe feeding. The vet didn't mentiont trying a syringe. I know they don't believe in it there because they are afraid you will aspirate your animal. They insist on a feeding tube.

Im wondering if I should ask her to prescribe some AD, I'm wondering if she even will and I'm wondering if it's just too late and I'm being unrealistic and I should take her to be PTS. Ive never done it before and I don't know how to bring myself to do it.

Can anybody advise me please? She's 13 and has been diabetic for 6 years. At times her BG has been hard to control. DKA and hypo a few times when she needed her dosage adjusted.

Thank you. I'm a wreck over this.
 
Re: Help please Fatty Liver- should I PTS?

I am sorry you are facing this decision no one wants to -financing or our kitties - though know you are not alone and many people have to face them every day. I can't help on the feeding tube v syringe feeding as I have't done any feeding tube and very very little syringe feeding.

I would recommend contacting Diabetic Cats in Need to see if they can help raise some funds to help. They have a financial assistance program and do some fundraisers to assist when our diabetic kitties need help. I know they have a lot of kitties on board right now, but is definitely worth a try. Venita@DCIN.info is the head of DCIN, make sure to indicate in the subject line that you have an urgent medical situation seeking financial assistance so she knows time is key (though I am sure most of what she see is).

Good luck with your kitty. I pray you can find a path to heal her, if not may you have strength to set her free from it and know that that is a gift to her too.
 
Re: Help please Fatty Liver- should I PTS?

What insulin are you giving, what dose and are you home testing?
You don't a prescription for AD, but I have no experience with fatty liver or DKA...

Please revise your Subject to include "Need Help-cat DKA fatty liver diabetic -not eating"
 
Re: Help please Fatty Liver- should I PTS?

Thank you for your kind and thoughtful reply. I apologize for all the problems I'm having posting on here. I guess I'm just nervous.

To clear up any confusion She does NOT have DKA now. The ketones went away in a day but it was a very expensive hospital stay. She was hospitalized again 4 days later when they noticed her liver wasn't right.
 
Re: Help please Fatty Liver- should I PTS?

i'm so sorry. that is a horribly tough decision to make

if you feel she's up for it i would ask for the AD and continue syringe feeding. i would also get the fluids and learn how to do those if they are called for in this situation. i'm not sure about the need for fluids as i've never had a kitty with fatty liver but i'm sure someone can pipe in on that. you say she is difficult? if she has the strength to fight you on the fluids or the syringe feeding, she very well could have enough fight in her to fight this too.
 
Re: Help please Fatty Liver- should I PTS?

Could you post your location on here? There are several members on this board here who have done fluids and could possibly come show you how it's done? Just an idea anyways ..
 
Re: Help please Fatty Liver- should I PTS?

Im in NJ, but they would show me how to do fluids at the vet. I just don't know how realistic I'm being with this. I hate the thoughts of upsetting her again and again with more trips to the vet,syringe feeding,fluids, etc if this is all futile.
 
Re: Help please Fatty Liver- should I PTS?

Do NOT euthanize because of fatty liver. There is a group dedicated to helping owners assist feed their cats and overcome fatty liver. Please join the Yahoo Feline Assisted Feeding group right away. http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/Feline-Assisted-Feeding/

You will be sent autofiles upon registering and there is a new member folder also for reading up on fatty liver (Feline Hepatic Lipidosis).

A few things:
1) What medication is he on?
2) What are you trying to feed?
3) FDMB can help you manage the diabetes part. DKA is a combo of not enough insulin, infection and not enough calories. A DKA cat needs 1.5 times the amount of food a normal cat does. So assist feeding is critical and enough insulin. So please post here for diabetes management. They are the experts.
4) Assist feeding and lots of calories. The FAF group can help give you tips on assist feeding via syringe or finger feeding. One of the autofiles is how to do this safely and gives lots of ideas to find a way for this to work for you. Iams MaxCal is the best food there is for assist feeding. It is a prescription food but its 330 calories a can and is worth its weight in gold. Its very low carb also AD is very low in calories and not one for an FHL/DKA cat. You are aiming to get at least a 5.5oz can of food in a day. 30to40mls a feeding.
5) Cornerstones of FHL recovery: Lots of calories to clear the liver of fat, a liver supplement (denosyl, marin or denamarin) and a strong antinausea medication (ondansetron/zofran). FHL and DKA are horribly nauseating.

It is overwhelming but you can get through this. You have people on your side supporting you now and not alone with a vet that is money oriented. So please fight with your cat. Fatty liver and DKA can be overcome. Maverick (my diabetic kitty) almost died from Fatty liver in 2008 and I had two and a half truly wonderful years with him. He died 1 year ago today at a routine vet appointment. Since his recovery I pay it forward helping others with assist feeding and FHL recovery and am very active on the FAF forum.

Hang in there. You will overcome this.
 
Re: Help please Fatty Liver- should I PTS?

I'm glad Karrie saw this thread .. she can help walk you through this!!

I'm so sorry you are going through all this ..
 
Re: Help please Fatty Liver- should I PTS?

Karrie was actually I was referencing in the thread I posted. I hope you find the answers you need to help your kitty -
 
Re: Help please Fatty Liver- should I PTS?

I tried to PM Karrieand I'mhaving a hard timenavigatinf this website for some reason. Thank you all so much for the advice.
I have located a vet practice in my area that sells Max Cal and I will be picking it up shortly.

You all are a Godsend.
 
Re: Help please Fatty Liver- should I PTS?

Just go back up to where Karrie posted to you in this thread and click on her name Karrie and Maverick, it will then take you to another page under Karrie`s name it says (send private message) click on that.
Please post where you live maybe someone on the board lives nearby that can come and help you.

Terri
 
Re: Help please Fatty Liver- should I PTS?

where in NJ are you? As you can see, I too am in NJ - Middlesex County. I have done fluids before, not in several years, but I do know how to administer it, if you need help and may be close by.
 
Re: Help please Fatty Liver- should I PTS?

Hi. I am in Hunterdon County. I have a little bit of experience with giving fluids and could help you if you are near by.
 
Re: Help please Fatty Liver- should I PTS?

Billie is now at the emergency hospital hopefully at this time having an esophageal feeding tube put in.

DCIN is paying for that surgery and the associated few days of hospitalization.

Prayers, please. Best wishes, good vines. The vet gave Billie a 50/50 chance of making it through surgery.

Billie's DCIN blog page and her chip-in are here.
 
Get well soon, Billie. Sending lots of healing vines and a chip-in.

Karrie (Maverick) will be a great help to you, she really knows her stuff!

Ella & Rusty
 
Billie came through the surgery fine. The ER will start feeding her through the tube tonight.
 
aww I didnt realize billie was having surgery .. Thankful billie came out ok and hope the rest of recovery goes well .. my thoughts are with them!
 
Yes, there is news. The vet called me this morning.

As of about 5 hours ago, Billie was not eating on her own. Overnight her BG level and potassium were low. BG--36; pot--3.1. She is on IV fluids with dextrose and potassium supplements. She is alert, and being tube fed, although small amounts and the ER hospital will be increasing the volume of food they are giving her. She may be able to go home tomorrow.

The sad and angry thing is that the hospital would not give Mom J information about her condition overnight. For DCIN to get a rescue discount for Billie's care, Mom J had to surrender Billie's ownership to DCIN. Little did we realize that that also meant that the hospital wouldn't give Mom J info about Billie. We have corrected that, but these ER hospitals can get such attitudes about who gets info and who doesn't. This happens way too often. Mom J was so upset and angry.
 
Venita,

Thanks again for the update. I would be beside myself if I could not get information on my own cat, how terrible.

Terri
 
OMG I didn't have a chanceto see this.THANK YOU ALL SO MUCH for your prayers and support. I am going to be visiting her and will post an update.
 
Just sent you this in a PM. Sorry I was unavailable. My Mother in Law was visiting and then my niece was born yesterday.

Re: Fatty Liver syringe feeeding
Sent: Sun Apr 08, 2012 12:30 pm
From: Karrie and Maverick
To: thebeigeone

I am so happy to hear you did not put her to sleep. It makes my heart heavy to hear people post that for something so cureable. Often they look worse before they start to feel better with FHL.

Here are some very important instructions:
1. Get her antinausea medication. Please be strong here and advocate for your cat. Vets are not up to speed on nausea caused by FHL and prescribe ineffective medication. Ondansetron is the best one you can buy. Dolasetron is the vet equivalent. You can get ondansetron at Costco affordably. DCIN will probably pay for this also. FHL is horribly nauseating. My Dad had liver disease and didn't eat for six weeks. 1mg (1/4 of a 4mg pill) twice a day. Metoclopromide/reglan is ineffective in cats. Cerenia is good for vomiting. The food needs to stay down to work. Cerenia is NOT the best for nausea though. Maybe someone on FDMB has some they can donate. I would be willing to pay for a prescription for you and order it from thrivingpets.com if you are in the USA. They don't ship to us up here in Canada.

2. A kittykollar. Maybe someone will donate one of theirs to you. www.kittykollar.com. Its an amazing thing for etube kitties.

3. Yahoo Feline Assisted Feeding. PLEASE learn to navigate this site. It saved my cats life. Please go on and post an introduction. And read the autofiles you were sent. Here is the file where you should start after this: http://pets.dir.groups.yahoo.com/group/ ... 20Members/
Hefner is my adopted diabetic cat - he is the home page kitty this month. I fostered him last June and he was so sick. Turns out he was overdosed on insulin and has been off of it since I fostered him.

Please read as much as you can.

When you post your intro I will reply more with some tips for your etube and others will too. It will make your life easier.

Sending you and your kitty some huge hugs. Take it day by day. You will get through this. Maverick was as close to death as you can get, orange/yellow from jaundice/liver failure and he recovered. He had his tube for ten weeks. Its a long story. Thank you for watching his video. He was my best friend and I would give anything I had in the world to get him back for just one day.

Karrie and angel Maverick.
 
Great info Karrie.

Billie has been restarted on Lantus insulin and her potassium is now normal. She has more energy, is stronger, and is feeding well. She will likely come home tomorrow.

Please help with her chip-in if you can. Her bill as of yesterday was $1400, and DCIN has received $288 through chip-in so far.
 
Billie came home last night with her new feeding tube but she's still very sick. Right now she's too nauseated for her feeding. I am hoping that in time things will improve for her. Thank you everyone for all of your concern and well wishes.
 
I have sent you a message as well as a couple to Venita.

One of the FAF moderators replied after I emailed them the update you pm'd me.

"
Hi Karrie,
She needs to post to the group, you're right about that.

Based on what she reports, I can't even begin to guess what's wrong here but IMO she needs to take that cat to the vet RIGHT NOW for evaluation. I would want to rule out: misplaced e-tube, CHF (which can sometimes happen if they're too aggressive with IV fluids in an older cat or one with pre-existing heart issues), some electrolyte major problem or as you say, some diabetic crisis. NONE of these things will get better at home w/o dx and tx.

That cat needs emergency medical help"

Can you post right away? It could be a lot of things - you fed too much, you fed too quickly or it could be an emergency with a misplaced tube or heart failure or any number of things. The way you describe how Billie is acting is not how tube fed kitties act when the tube is placed right. Even a very sick tube fed cat doesn't act this way. There is something wrong.
 
Jacky,

I have to say I'm very concerned about the lack of updates. When Maverick first got his tube I was posting at least a few times a day and reading everything I could.

My vet almost killed Maverick. Guess what - the generosity and knowledge of people on the FAF forum saved his life. I had 2.5 wonderful cuddle filled years with him. You can read his story in my signature. These people live and breath feeding tubes and help a few hundred cats a year. FHL is survivable. But you are a big part of his survival. If you don't take it all in, he won't make it. It is taxing emotionally but you have to be strong enough for Billy or he won't make it.

Same with diabetes. I had a vet charge me thousands of dollars and not want me to test at home. When you read about cats dying due to diabetic keto acidocis or dying from hypos you know why we listen to the experts here. They help at least a few thousand cats a year manage diabetes. How many cats a year do you think your vet helps?

You have to be strong enough to be Billy's care taker and advocate. He will die if you don't.

So get on the FAF forum and find out what you can do. You may have fed him too fast. You may have fed him cold food. He may not have nausea addressed. He could be in ketoacidocis. But you wouldn't know if you don't test. Billy can't test himself, he can't post on forums himself, he can't feed himself. That's your job.

You have an amazing group of people here willing and able to help. They have their own jobs, their own sick cats, and want to help. Maverick died suddenly of a blood clot at a routine vet appointment last April. I'd sell my soul to get him back for one more day. I fed him by tube for ten weeks after my vets bad advice almost killed him. I didn't sleep for two months straight. When the vet tried to give him 2 units of insulin - he would have been in the hospital and hypo. He could have killed him then. Maverick after a week needed very little insulin and got down to a single drop. Home testing gives you the control. Blind faith is something most of us here have learned about the hard way. It cost me $6000 and Maverick was as close to dying that you could get. Thank God for forums.

Have faith in yourself and get going on helping Billy. You can do this. You are not in this alone!!!!!!!! I'm sorry to be so up front and direct. But in a case such as Billy's the softer approach may be too little too late. Dig deep down and find strength and courage to fight with Billy.
 
hi jacky! just want to send a little encouragement to you and Billie! it's so difficult to have a sick kitty, but you are SO lucky to have people like Karrie who will teach you exactly what you need to know to help Billie, and the yahoo group is amazing too!

The people on FDMB are amazing - you've got Venita helping fundraise for Billie and Karrie here for advice on feeding. Others can help with you get her regulated with the diabetes. i know i thought i'd hit the jackpot when i found this site.

we're watching for your updates! people will respond quickly to your posts and try to teach you what you need to know.

hugs from our end of the continent! hang in there and let us know how things are going!
 
Karrie, I thought I updated earlier. I thought it was on this thread but if it did not show up then forgive me. Please do me a favor and understand that I still have other responsibilities to take care of in life and I'm under a lot of pressure right now. If I am not able to spend as much time on message boards as you did when your cat was sick, it doesn't mean I'm not fighting for my cat.I really appreciate your advice but I don't want to feel as though I need to defend myself.
I posed on the other forum and nothing showed up.I think the moderator needs to review the post. I needed to leave the house for awhile to take care of some things.I cannot be on the internet all day. But I am attending to my cat, I promise you.
 
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