? PLease Help! A bit nervous - with my dosing and numbers

[Samantha and Tiny]

I've read the sticky and reduced his AM shot due to the AMPS numbers but reduced them extra as I get nervous and don't quite understand what's more important - PS or Nadir? I'm not used to seeing his levels at 69. I gave more kibble and they and numbers slowly rising but I'm afraid they'll fall again ( 2 bouts of kibble and then drop in numbers). I'm just watching his Libre sensor readings and also afraid. Are the numbers are lower than the sensor is reading? He won't let me prick his ear. the sensor now says 75 and dropping 71. Any advice?

 

[Samantha and Tiny]

Sensor Alarm at 53/54 I panicked and put a little karo syrup on his gum did n't know it has to be below 50

 

[Lara & Luciole (Lu)]

I'm sorry nobody's here to help you out. I know how scary getting low can be.
It looks like you did the right thing for your Tiny.

Do you have medium carb food for Tiny?

ProZinc isn't an insulin I'm familiar with, but just wanted to let you know you aren't alone.

@Staci & Ivy sorry to ping you, but anybody you know who you can give a hand here?

 

[Staci & Ivy]

I'm sorry nobody's here to help you out. I know how scary getting low can be.
It looks like you did the right thing for your Tiny.

Do you have medium carb food for Tiny?

ProZinc isn't an insulin I'm familiar with, but just wanted to let you know you aren't alone.

@Staci & Ivy sorry to ping you, but anybody you know who you can give a hand here?

Hi there. I’m not familiar with Prozinc either. Have you spoken with @Suzanne & Darcy
She’s an expert with this insulin.
It looks like you gave a reduction yesterday down to two units so most likely the larger Depot is still in effect from your reduction.

It will take several cycles to see what the dose will actually do for Tiny once the larger depot is out of the way.
Are you giving any small snacks when the insulin is onsetting and kicking in?
That can help to try to soften the severe drops.

Also, having medium or high carb food in the house is helpful in case they do very steep drops suddenly.
And it’s good you have Karo in the house if you should need it.

It looks like you were following SLGS and would hold that dose for one week and then do a curve or at least see what the Libre sensor is telling you. What you wanna know is how low is the dose taking Tiny.

And if Tiny goes below 90 on a handheld meter, you would take a reduction.
If for some reason, you cannot do ear pricks and do a blood test then you have to use your Libre as your guide.

Once you get used to using the Libre sensor, you should get a feel for how it reads compared to the handheld meter that you were using.
But it’s always good to test if you can with an ear prick if Tiny goes low on the Libre just to confirm how he actually is.

I hope this helps. Let’s see if we can get you some dosing advice today
@tiffmaxee

 

[Samantha and Tiny]

I'm sorry nobody's here to help you out. I know how scary getting low can be.
It looks like you did the right thing for your Tiny.

Do you have medium carb food for Tiny?

ProZinc isn't an insulin I'm familiar with, but just wanted to let you know you aren't alone.

@Staci & Ivy sorry to ping you, but anybody you know who you can give a hand here?

Hi there, thank you so much for responding - I had to go out once he was a bit higher. he eats Fancy feast pate and glucose management dry kibble...I kept giving him food but he got full.
I'm really worried about giving him the same dose tonight although he is currently at 348, i'm guessing the nadir was the 53.

 

[Christie & Maverick]

It looks like you gave a reduction yesterday down to two units so most likely the larger Depot is still in effect from your reduction.

It will take several cycles to see what the dose will actually do for Tiny once the larger depot is out of the way.

Just a point of clarification, Prozinc is not a depot insulin, it is an in and out insulin although it is possible for one cycle to affect the next. For some, the Libre can begin to have unreliable readings under 100, so I agree with Staci that if you can check with a human meter that would be ideal.

What is likely happening is some bouncing. Looks like Tiny was breaking a bounce today.

Bouncing - is simply a reaction to what the cat's system perceives as a BG value that is "too low". "too low" is relative. If a cat is used to BG in the 200s, 300s or higher for a long time, then even a BG to 150 can trigger a "bounce". Bouncing can also be triggered if the BG drops too low and/or too fast. The pancreas, then the liver release glucogon, glycogen and counter-regulatory hormones. The end result is a dumping of "sugar" into the bloodstream. *Usually* bounces clear within 3 days (6 cycles).

I wouldn’t be adjusting the doses so much up and down, based on higher numbers, usually you want to hold a dose for 7 days unless the cat falls under 90. Here is the sticky on Prozinc Dosing Msthods Sticky - PROZINC DOSING METHODS

That said, I will leave further suggestions for dosing to Suzanne who is more familiar with this insulin.

 

[Samantha and Tiny]

Hi there. I’m not familiar with Prozinc either. Have you spoken with @Suzanne & Darcy
She’s an expert with this insulin.
It looks like you gave a reduction yesterday down to two units so most likely the larger Depot is still in effect from your reduction.

It will take several cycles to see what the dose will actually do for Tiny once the larger depot is out of the way.
Are you giving any small snacks when the insulin is onsetting and kicking in?
That can help to try to soften the severe drops.

Also, having medium or high carb food in the house is helpful in case they do very steep drops suddenly.
And it’s good you have Karo in the house if you should need it.

It looks like you were following SLGS and would hold that dose for one week and then do a curve or at least see what the Libre sensor is telling you. What you wanna know is how low is the dose taking Tiny.

And if Tiny goes below 90 on a handheld meter, you would take a reduction.
If for some reason, you cannot do ear pricks and do a blood test then you have to use your Libre as your guide.

Once you get used to using the Libre sensor, you should get a feel for how it reads compared to the handheld meter that you were using.
But it’s always good to test if you can with an ear prick if Tiny goes low on the Libre just to confirm how he actually is.

I hope this helps. Let’s see if we can get you some dosing advice today
@tiffmaxee

Hi Staci - Yes I sent her a DM, I'm guessing she gets bombarded with messages and most likely didn't see it. I'm sure she would have answered if she saw, she's amazing! I have an hour to go before PM dose and I'm really scared to give him 2 units again. Yes, I reduced his AM dose this morning from yesterday's (both am and pm dose of 2.5) to 2. Also, he is being so ornery, he won't let me prick his ear which drives me nuts cuz he's a SUCH sweetie pie. He might hit 400 by 6:00. I'm wondering how much to give him. I get really confused.

 

[Samantha and Tiny]

Just a point of clarification, Prozinc is not a depot insulin, it is an in and out insulin although it is possible for one cycle to affect the next. For some, the Libre can begin to have unreliable readings under 100, so I agree with Staci that if you can check with a human meter that would be ideal.

What is likely happening is some bouncing. Looks like Tiny was breaking a bounce today.

Bouncing - is simply a reaction to what the cat's system perceives as a BG value that is "too low". "too low" is relative. If a cat is used to BG in the 200s, 300s or higher for a long time, then even a BG to 150 can trigger a "bounce". Bouncing can also be triggered if the BG drops too low and/or too fast. The pancreas, then the liver release glucogon, glycogen and counter-regulatory hormones. The end result is a dumping of "sugar" into the bloodstream. *Usually* bounces clear within 3 days (6 cycles).

I wouldn’t be adjusting the doses so much up and down, based on higher numbers, usually you want to hold a dose for 7 days unless the cat falls under 90. Here is the sticky on Prozinc Dosing Msthods Sticky - PROZINC DOSING METHODS

That said, I will leave further suggestions for dosing to Suzanne who is more familiar with this insulin.

Thanks so much for your help - yes, I've been bouncing around with his doses because of my confusion between Pre-shot number/dose and Nadir/dose. I hope I can get clarification! I'll look at dosing methods again

 

[Samantha and Tiny]

Thanks so much for your help - yes, I've been bouncing around with his doses because of my confusion between Pre-shot number/dose and Nadir/dose. I hope I can get clarification! I'll look at dosing methods again

Also, since he fell under 90 today, do I reduce the dose tonight from 2 (what I gave this morning) to 1.75 or stay at 2 and hope he doesn't go so low again?

 

[Christie & Maverick]

I would suggest you take the reduction to 1.75u and see how that works. Again, remember when cats bounce, it’s from seeing numbers they aren’t used to, or from steep drops. Tiny may start a bounce, and you want to give him time to see how things are after the bounce clears. You did well today to try and feed when you saw he started dropping, next time, try a couple of teaspoons of his usual food, 1/8 might have been a bit too small.

 

[Robo & B]

For slgs which is the prozinc dosing method your spreadsheet says you're following you need to drop your pm dose as you had a reading under 90.
This morning you shot 2 units so that makes tonight's dose 1.75 units. You base dose changes on the nadirs NOT the preshot numbers. We check preshot numbers to ensure blood sugar is high enough for insulin

You look like you are basing your dosing on preshot values you shouldn't be. Take a breathe - I know it's hard seeing a high preshot but have a little patience give each dose time to settle

 

[Lara & Luciole (Lu)]

I hope this is helpful. You got some great replies, and please keep updating and letting us know how it's going.
Tiny is an absolute beauty.

 

[Samantha and Tiny]

I would suggest you take the reduction to 1.75u and see how that works. Again, remember when cats bounce, it’s from seeing numbers they aren’t used to, or from steep drops. Tiny may start a bounce, and you want to give him time to see how things are after the bounce clears. You did well today to try and feed when you saw he started dropping, next time, try a couple of teaspoons of his usual food, 1/8 might have been a bit too small.

Oh thank youuuu! I will give him 1.75 - it's difficult on the syringes since they don't have a hash mark for .75. Just to be absolutely sure, I have to eyeball it between the 1.5 and the 2? I am using the u-40 needles with 3/10cc/12.7mm/29g.

 

[Samantha and Tiny]

For slgs which is the prozinc dosing method your spreadsheet says you're following you need to drop your pm dose as you had a reading under 90.
This morning you shot 2 units so that makes tonight's dose 1.75 units. You base dose changes on the nadirs NOT the preshot numbers. We check preshot numbers to ensure blood sugar is high enough for insulin

You look like you are basing your dosing on preshot values you shouldn't be. Take a breathe - I know it's hard seeing a high preshot but have a little patience give each dose time to settle

Okay, thank you so much for the clarification. Yes, I was juggling the 2 and switching doses....Breathing....

 

[Christie & Maverick]

yes, you need to eyeball, just draw up 2u then what I used to do is go to the fridge, open the door and use the backlight to see more clearly the lines, squeeze out a couple of drops until I got to the in between. In the future if you find he is dropping too quickly and you are worried, please do post on main, there are sometimes more eyes there, and people there who can help, regardless of what insulin you are using

 

[Samantha and Tiny]

I hope this is helpful. You got some great replies, and please keep updating and letting us know how it's going.
Tiny is an absolute beauty.

Thank you I will indeed and I'm obsessed with filling in his spreadsheet. I wish he would let me prick his ear more. I'm grateful for the Libre when I have it.

 

[Samantha and Tiny]

yes, you need to eyeball, just draw up 2u then what I used to do is go to the fridge, open the door and use the backlight to squeeze out a couple of drops until I got to the in between. In the future if you find he is dropping too quickly and you are worried, please do post on main, there are sometimes more eyes there, and people there who can help, regardless of what insulin you are using

Excellent. Yes, I never know where to post, I'm trying to get the hang of the forum lol! SO grateful for it and all the help

 

[Samantha and Tiny]

Excellent. Yes, I never know where to post, I'm trying to get the hang of the forum lol! SO grateful for it and all the help

Okay, I gave him dinner and he only ate a 3 or 4 bites, barely anything. i tried giving him a diff flavor and he only took 1 bite. I think he wants kibble. I can't give him insulin if he doesn't eat? should I skip the dose?