PLease Advise about giving dose tonight...

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RockStar033

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Ok, so i made the bold move against my vet, and decided to start dosing Annie on 1u BID.... so i gave her the 1u this morning, and we are about to give her the 1u soon again....... can someone please look at my spreadsheet and tell me if it's ok to give the 1u tonight...... Just a sidenote.... she has been on meds for 2 days now to help ease her pancreatitis, maybe the meds are working, but right now at +11 she is at 12.6mmol(227). I have no experience giving her a shot at this low number yet on Lantus.... usually by this time in the evening she is at a higher number but that was when the vet advised to just give the 2u SID in the morning.

Please advice on dose thank you..... will she be fine on the 1u?
 
Hold on for a few minutes and I will try to get a lantus experienced person to help you out...

Carl
 
RockStar033 said:
Ok, so i made the bold move against my vet, and decided to start dosing Annie on 1u BID.... so i gave her the 1u this morning, and we are about to give her the 1u soon again....... can someone please look at my spreadsheet and tell me if it's ok to give the 1u tonight...... Just a sidenote.... she has been on meds for 2 days now to help ease her pancreatitis, maybe the meds are working, but right now at +11 she is at 12.6mmol(227). I have no experience giving her a shot at this low number yet on Lantus.... usually by this time in the evening she is at a higher number but that was when the vet advised to just give the 2u SID in the morning.

Please advice on dose thank you..... will she be fine on the 1u?
When looking at her ss, you are having problems because you are skipping all her pm shots.
Then she is high in the morn and you give her a shot and then you don't know about the pm so you skip.

Why don't you go with a lesser dose if you don't want to go with 1u.
How about if you go with even .5u tonite and then see where she is in the morning.
If you skip again, she's going to be in the 400s again and that is very hard on her body.
I would say go with .5u and you should be fine.
 
i was skipping the evening shot as per my vet but decided today it wasn't acceptable. i took it upon myself to start giving her 1u BID...

so it's ok to just give her the .5? i thought the dose had to be consistant for at least a week? maybe i misunderstood.... if the .5 isn't enough then, i can go ahead and give her the 1u for the morning and night then tomorrow?
 
Yes, go with .5u tonite and then in the morn, you will not have such a high amps.... the reason she is so high in the morn is due to no pm shot. I have no idea why the vet would say no shot...
You need to dose every 12 hours so if 1u is maybe too much, drop down to the .5u and you should be fine.
 
Thank you so much Gayle.

i know, i don't know why the vet advised no evening shot....

so if the .5 tonight still leaves her with high morning pre shot, then i can go ahead and give her the 1u tomorrow night?
 
RockStar033 said:
Thank you so much Gayle.

i know, i don't know why the vet advised no evening shot....

so if the .5 tonight still leaves her with high morning pre shot, then i can go ahead and give her the 1u tomorrow night?

No. Stay with the .5u and let her shed fill.

If you look at her ss, it looks like you may have started her too high a dose and kept going higher, then skipping every pm.....

Ultimately, you want to find a nice dose that you can give her am and pm. I would let this .5u settle, and go with the general protocol guidelines, and you will see a much happier Annie.
So far, she has been high and low and high and low and high and low.... she must feel lousy.
You want to have her feel the same all the time, and starting with a steady, low dose of .5u every 12 hours, I think you will see a much happier girlie.

"General" Guidelines:
--- Hold the initial starting dose for 5 - 7 days (10 - 14 cycles) unless the numbers tell you otherwise. Kitties experiencing high flat curves or prone to ketones may want to increase the starting dose after 3 days (6 cycles).
--- Each subsequent dose is held for a minimum of 3 days (6 cycles) unless kitty earns a reduction (See: Reducing the dose...).
--- Adjustments to dose are based on nadirs with only some consideration given to preshot numbers.

Increasing the dose...
--- Hold the dose for 3 - 5 days (6 - 10 cycles) if nadirs are less than 200 before increasing the dose.
--- After 3 consecutive days (6 cycles)... if nadirs are greater than 200, but less than 300 increase the dose by 0.25 unit.
--- After 3 consecutive days (6 cycles)... if nadirs are greater than 300 increase the dose by 0.5 unit.
 
.5u in the morn and .5u in the eve.
Lantus likes consistency....every change makes a ripple and Lantus needs to readjust.... stick with the same dose twice a day for about 2 days and see how it settles.

For all you know, that 1u dose maybe too much for her!
 
Hon,

Just follow Gayle advice go with .5u tonight, and try to get at least one test before you go to bed tonight. Lets she where she heads on that and we will help you decide what to shoot in the morning ...K?

Give yourself a little window in the time between when you get her amps (morning pretest number) and when you need to give Annie her shot and post the number here. Start a new thread with the Title. New to BID dosing, Lantus, Need dosing Advice. You can even click on the 911 button at the top of that post so it catches everybody's eye when they first log in.

What time zone are you in and when is Annie's normal shot time. Like for me Musette's shot time is 7a/7p and I'm in CST. If we know about when we should watch for your post we can find someone to check in on you then and help you out. Gut tells me you are probably going to want to shoot 0.5u again tomorrow morning, and hold that dose for about a week and she where she settles on that. But to make you feel better about it we will hold your hand and have someone around to advise you what is safe to dose in the morning.

You've recently changed her diet to low carb all canned right? If you have she could greatly drop in her insulin needs quickly. my Maxwell took changing his diet to low carb canned and exactly 2 weeks on Lantus while he was in foster care waiting to be transported to me, and I gave him exactly 1 shot of 1u, and one shot of 0.5u and he was in remission and OTJ (Off the Juice -insulin) and this coming November we will celebrate his two year anniversary of him being OTJ. This could be a very good thing for you and Annie. :thumbup

Mel, Maxwell, Musette & The Fur Gang
 
ok got it..... .5(we just gave her tonight) and probably .5 in the morning. This is really nerve wracking :( ... she's been on strictly canned low carb food for a month now, which shows on our spreadsheet, even when on the Caninsulin, had dropped her numbers from the 400-500 range down to the 300 range. I think the meds are kicking in for her pancreatitis so i know that will help drop her numbers a bit too. That's why i was nervous about what to shoot at the 227...

I really appreciate all the help. Is there something i can print out for my vet about Lantus and shooting it BID so he sees where i'm coming from when i tell him i changed it?

we are in Toronto, we are EPT. We dose her at 11/11
 
Just want to update her numbers on her .5u pm shot

Pre shot - 227
+0 - insulin( .5u)
+1 - 187
+2 - 175

i'll stay up as long as i have to tonight just to be sure. Only have 10 strips left, was gonna go out in the morning to get more! hopefully they will last me the night!
 
RockStar033 said:
Just want to update her numbers on her .5u pm shot

Pre shot - 227
+0 - insulin( .5u)
+1 - 187
+2 - 175

i'll stay up as long as i have to tonight just to be sure. Only have 10 strips left, was gonna go out in the morning to get more! hopefully they will last me the night!
now that's some mighty fine numbers huh? No big drop ... how's she doing?
I think you will be fine to just get a before bed test and in the morn you will not have any big surprise number at all!
I think you may find the .5u is a good dose for her
 
Yes, she's sleeping pretty good right now :)

so the odds of her going hypo are pretty slim right now? or should i stay up for a bit?
 
I think she will be just fine tonite, but I don't know about you! I hope you can relax now and get some well deserved sleep.

Seriously, just get a before bed test, every nite, and you will know where she was when you retired.
Sleep well and pats for your girlie.
 
well +3 and shes at 173

I think she will be fine :) my hubby is gonna test her when he wakes up at 8am....

Thank you SOOOO much for your patience!
 
the guidelines for dosing that gayle gave you are for people following the Tight Regulation Protocol. the .5u is fine - i think that was a good choice. shooting the same dose every 12 hrs is what cats need - they have a fast metabolism.

however, if you want to work her towards going off of insulin, the TR protocol is awesome, but you don't want to follow part of it and not all of it. it's like a package deal because that's what keeps a cat safe. You can read about it here.

These are the requisites:

REQUISITES WHEN FOLLOWING A TIGHT REGULATION PROTOCOL WITH LANTUS OR LEVEMIR:

Kitty should be monitored closely the first three days when starting Lantus or Levemir.
Blood glucose levels should at least be checked at pre-shot, +3, +6, and +9.
More monitoring may be needed.
It will be necessary to test kitty's blood glucose levels multiple times per day.
Learn the signs of and how to treat HYPOGLYCEMIA and prepare a HYPO TOOLBOX.
Test regularly for ketones and know about DIABETIC KETOACIDOSIS (DKA).
Use U-100 3/10cc syringes with half units marked on the barrel for fine dosing.
Feed a high quality low carb canned or raw food diet.
Feed small meals throughout the day. Some kitties adapt well to free feeding.

I'd encourage you to post regularly here: http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/viewforum.php?f=9 so we can teach you how to safely monitor her and hopefully, work her off of insulin.

re your vet - many vets don't really understand feline diabetes - we see it all the time here. a lot of people put their cats to sleep when they are diagnosed, and vets have to know a lot about many animals and many diseases. feline diabetes gets a 15 minute lecture in veterinary school, and lantus is a newer insulin that many don't have a lot of experience with. don't hold it against your vet - we see it all the time. we do FD 24/7/365. we can teach you what you need to know to keep your little one safe.

btw, you're going to want more strips asap. most people try to keep 50 or so in reserve, because if your cat gets low in the middle of the night and you don't have strips, it could be pretty awful.
 
i don't think i want to do tight regulation right now because it just doesn't fit into our work schedule right now.

the .5 brought her into good number... but by 8am this morning, she was back up to 365. Bummer!

I know i need more strips, just didn't have the money till today! trying to pay for a wedding as well as every other cost of living.
 
Don't worry about the TR because you don't need to spend every penny you have and test like crazy to care for Annie... stick with the safe plan and go with the .5u.
With all the pm skipped shots, you need to fill her shed and in that case, you don't need to test like crazy as stated below.
btw, you're going to want more strips asap. most people try to keep 50 or so in reserve, because if your cat gets low in the middle of the night and you don't have strips, it could be pretty awful.

There is a Relaxed Lantus forum where many people are realizing great results with their cat, and the people posting there will work with your needs and not push you with fear.
There are strategies where you do NOT need to be testing 24/7 curves and never sleeping.
From the looks of your Annie, she has not needed any TR to let you know she needs less insulin!

You can show your vet any number of protocols where there is not a single one that states cats get insulin once a day. Tell your vet that many cats need to receive the vet insulins PZI/Prozinc every 3 hours to work, so maybe once a day is ok for humans and maybe dogs for all I know, but cats need shots every 12 hours.

Relax, and get the strips when you can. Big pats for Annie and just keep with the .5u am and pm for a few days. Always test before every shot and test just before you go to bed. The testing for other times can be left to curves on the weekends, OK?
 
You do not need to test like crazy 24/7 and never sleep in order to do TR. I don't know why people keeping insisting you do. I did it working two jobs and going to grad school. If you can shoot on a 12/12 schedule and test 3 times a day, (preshots and a mid-cycle test between +4 and +7 in one of the cycles), and a curve once a week, you can do TR. It may mean being generous with reductions (taking them at lower preshots, for example), or holding doses a little longer to make sure you have enough data to get a true picture of the action, but you can do it and it does work. Yes, it was a slight pain in the butt on nights when I would set an alarm to get up and get a nadir test. But it became routine after a week and I just got up and went right back to sleep, so I was by no means sleep deprived. It wasn't possible for me to run home on my lunch break to grab a nadir test during the day because I work an hour away from my house, but some people do that, too. You can also hire a high school or college student for VERY cheap, teach them to test and have them come in a few days a week the nights you don't want to get up and do it.

While cats can and do go into remission without TR, TR offers the best known chance for remission. And the sooner you start, the better your chances. So I would always suggest trying it first, and if it's completely unmanageable for your lifestyle that's one thing, but I think you'll realize it's not as hard as people make it out to be.

Neither the TR forum nor the Relaxed Lantus forum will admonish you for not testing a gazillion times a day. Both forums will suggest you get a daily, mid-cycle check since that is the only way to know how the insulin is working and get good control over BG.
 
thanks for clarifying that, julia. i also keep hearing it repeated ad nauseum that you have to test a gazillion times a day - that's simply not true. it is true that there are some people who get addicted to the data, testing becomes as easy as breathing, and they test a lot. but it's NOT necessary and everyone who follows it has a life - working, kids, elderly parents, farms, blah blah. we have one person following it who has 18 cats. it is doable.

it isn't doing new people a favor to paint TR as though it is something impossible to do if they have a job. it IS the best chance for their cat and we all know it.

if you're not going to follow TR (and just adding, that it is the ONLY dosing protocol that has been studied & published in professional journals for dosing diabetic cats), then PLEASE don't follow the dosing advice for it. TR is based upon the knowledge that if a cat is pushed down into non-diabetic cat blood glucose numbers (50-120) that the pancreas will often heal and the cat will go off of insulin. the success rate for cats in the study that started that protocol in the first month after diagnosis was 100%. the overall rate if the cat started it in the first 6 months after diagnosis was 84%. there are some cats with other conditions, like mine, who would not have gone off without additional treatment no matter what dosing a person did. however, for the "ordinary" diabetic cat, TR gives you the best chance - unless you just want to maintain your cat on insulin for the rest of its life. i'm not being sarcastic or anything, just telling you how it is. if you're not testing & feeding low carb canned, you do NOT want to follow the TR dosing protocol because your cat could be in too low of numbers without being monitored.

the alternative dosing plan that can be followed if you aren't able to feed only canned food and test 3 times a day is the Start Low Go Slow plan. it's not published, it was developed here, it's slower, but it's also safer if you aren't testing to check and see how low the dose is taking the cat. even with it you have to do some testing. i really don't know how anyone could feel comfortable giving cats insulin without testing - just me. dosing for lantus is based upon the lowest point in the cycle, which is somewhere 2-8 hours in between shots, depending on the cat. knowing how low the dose is taking the cat is the ONLY way to keep a cat safe.

here is the link for the SLGS directions. you can post on any forum you want to post on.
 
I really appreciate the information, i have read the TR protocols, etc, I really want to do the TR but the time of the day where she's at her nadir, is the time that neither of us can be home .. so that's a peeriod of about 3-4 hours when she's at her peak. I can do it on a sunday-monday but that's the only time. I was going to do a curve this coming ssaturday night just to see because i want to get more of her night numbers.

I have already been getting lots of numbers but there is no pattern yet, partly due to her insulin change, and dose, and as well as her Pancreatitis. I think once her Pancreatitis is relieved, her numbers might be a bit more consistant. I hope.

i'm really doing all i can, and i want what's best for my Annie. Although i've done lots of reading on this board and research, i am still only a month into this and still learning, but it has gotten easier day by day, thanks to the wonderful people on this board. I'm really grateful! i don't know what i would have done had i not found this board
 
RockStar033 said:
I really appreciate the information, i have read the TR protocols, etc, I really want to do the TR but the time of the day where she's at her nadir, is the time that neither of us can be home .. so that's a peeriod of about 3-4 hours when she's at her peak. I can do it on a sunday-monday but that's the only time. I was going to do a curve this coming ssaturday night just to see because i want to get more of her night numbers.

Is there any way you can adjust the shooting schedule so that someone can get the day nadir, perhaps in a lunch break, or set an alarm and get the nadir test during the PM cycle like I did? I shot at 7am/7pm, and I was gone from 7am to 6-7pm for work. I would get a test in the PM cycle before I went to bed at around 10, then set an alarm for 1am , get up, test and feed, and go right back to bed. The whole thing would take a total of 5 minutes of lost sleep. For 3 months or so I bribed a college student to come in 2-3 times a week and get a test in between noon and 2pm, so on those days I wouldn't have to set an alarm.

These a just a few suggestions, but that's how it was do-able for me. My logic is this--TR means better control over BG, Better control over BG means better chances of remission, and remission means only having to test once every couple weeks. So what seemed more inconvenient in the short run actually turned out to be more convenient in the long run.

I don't want to pressure you if you really feel uncomfortable about it--because it's your cat and your decision and you will do what you believe your best option is. I remember how confusing TR was to me at first. But it gets easier, just like with testing and feeding and shooting schedules and everything else. I just don't want you to get discouraged from a choice because you think it's impossible for you if there's a solution that just needs to be shared by those of us in a similar work situation.
 
yea, i can totally get the middle of the night reading. We shoot her at 11/11 cuz it works best with our schedule as far as injections go. now that she's on her new dose i want to get more night readings because i have tons of day readings. i feel like we are on the right track now with the BID dosing instead of the SID.
 
I have already been getting lots of numbers but there is no pattern yet, partly due to her insulin change, and dose, and as well as her Pancreatitis. I think once her Pancreatitis is relieved, her numbers might be a bit more consistant. I hope.

Talk to your vet about considering weekly B12 shots at home for Annie if it turns out she had frequent pancreatitis isssues/flares. You can also give her Pepcid AC BID (daily max is 5mg) and it will help with the upset stomach that usually accompanies pancreatitis.

The B12 helped my Shadoe and her pancreas inflammation all be disappeared after starting the B12 shots.
 
i think it would be an extremely rare cat that would do well with once a day dosing. perhaps your vet is thinking because lantus is dosed once a day for people that it would translate to that for cats. that's not true, however. cats have an extremely fast metabolism and they all (as far as i've seen) require twice a day shots.

the same amount shot twice a day over time, adjusting dose based upon the Bg readings you get, will cause the "curve" to flatten out into almost a line. that is when the cat is heading off of insulin. it's kinda amazing to see. cats often start with a giant U curve, then the preshot numbers come down, then they spend more time flat in the middle of the curve, then it moves to a line. lantus is amazingly good for cats.

btw, there's an "OTJ" (off the juice) video party in the TR "Lantus Land" for Kiwi, who just went off of insulin. His "mom", kim, has serious health issues and needed a lot of help taking care of him, but she was able to follow the TR protocol. We work with whatever life things people have going on to try to offer ideas, just like julia just did. Kiwi was one of those that went off amazingly fast. you might take a look. OTJ Party for Kiwi Kiwi's spreadsheet

btw, in your case, i would buy a timed feeder like this one http://www.amazon.com/PetSafe-5-Meal-Electronic-Pet-Feeder/dp/B000GEWHNS. many of us use this one or another one. that's one great way to follow TR and be gone during the day. on days that i work, i put food in 4 compartments (one is open), set the time to open when i think he needs it, and i go off to work without worrying. punkin's lowest numbers are around +5.5, so i set the timer to open at his regular +3 feeding, then +4.5/+5/+5.5 and if i want, i add some higher carb food to some of the compartments. gives me a lot of peace of mind.
 
julie & punkin said:
the guidelines for dosing that gayle gave you are for people following the Tight Regulation Protocol. the .5u is fine - i think that was a good choice. shooting the same dose every 12 hrs is what cats need - they have a fast metabolism.

however, if you want to work her towards going off of insulin, the TR protocol is awesome, but you don't want to follow part of it and not all of it. it's like a package deal because that's what keeps a cat safe. You can read about it here.

These are the requisites:

REQUISITES WHEN FOLLOWING A TIGHT REGULATION PROTOCOL WITH LANTUS OR LEVEMIR:

Kitty should be monitored closely the first three days when starting Lantus or Levemir.
Blood glucose levels should at least be checked at pre-shot, +3, +6, and +9.
More monitoring may be needed.
It will be necessary to test kitty's blood glucose levels multiple times per day.

Learn the signs of and how to treat HYPOGLYCEMIA and prepare a HYPO TOOLBOX.
Test regularly for ketones and know about DIABETIC KETOACIDOSIS (DKA).
Use U-100 3/10cc syringes with half units marked on the barrel for fine dosing.
Feed a high quality low carb canned or raw food diet.
Feed small meals throughout the day. Some kitties adapt well to free feeding.

I'd encourage you to post regularly here: http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/viewforum.php?f=9 so we can teach you how to safely monitor her and hopefully, work her off of insulin.

re your vet - many vets don't really understand feline diabetes - we see it all the time here. a lot of people put their cats to sleep when they are diagnosed, and vets have to know a lot about many animals and many diseases. feline diabetes gets a 15 minute lecture in veterinary school, and lantus is a newer insulin that many don't have a lot of experience with. don't hold it against your vet - we see it all the time. we do FD 24/7/365. we can teach you what you need to know to keep your little one safe.

btw, you're going to want more strips asap. most people try to keep 50 or so in reserve, because if your cat gets low in the middle of the night and you don't have strips, it could be pretty awful.

The above mentions multiple testing multiple times per day and it mentions following ALL of the protocol, not just pieces of it.

Then to state the below in the next post is a bit of a puzzle

it isn't doing new people a favor to paint TR as though it is something impossible to do if they have a job. it IS the best chance for their cat and we all know it.

Telling people they need to test multiple times per day and getting up in the middle of the night to test is needed, stating it's the ONLY way, and then, oh sorry it's not needed, you can go with the SLGS method which is pretty much like saying change the dose once a week or two.

If you actually read that SLGS method I don't see where it states to test 3times a day, but it talks about the curves with 2hr interval testing, so below is the SLGS method from many years ago, note the mention of the old discontinued insulins. There is no daily testing in this SLGS method

Before you start -- How Diet Affects Regulation:

This document is a description of a safe and conservative procedure for determining the proper dose of insulin for your cat. However, what and how you feed your cat are very important to this process. Some important dietary principles are:
Always be consistent in what you feed your cat in terms of protein, fat, carbohydrate, and fiber content of the diet, and when you feed your cat relative to the insulin dose.
Make sure that the type of insulin matches how you feed your cat. A shorter-acting insulin such as Vetsulin/Caninsulin often requires meal-feeding (or at least not feeding your cat after about 6 hours post-dose); longer-acting insulins such as PZI, Lantus, or Levemir may be more suitable for a cat who free-feeds.
Consider the content of the diet. Cats on diets which are low in carbohydrates (around 5-10% of total calories) usually require less insulin than cats on high-carbohydrate diets. In addition, a substantial minority (around 1/3) of cats who were previously on a high-carbohydrate diet may end up not needing insulin injections if carbohydrates are restricted. There is now research indicating that Lantus (insulin glargine) may improve your cat's chances of being diet-controlled. Caution: a low-carbohydrate diet may not be appropriate for some cats with health conditions such as chronic renal failure or pancreatitis; check with your vet to see if this diet is appropriate.
Five Steps to Regulation:

Step 1. Start at a low dose of PZI, Lantus, or Levemir insulin, as recommended by your vet. (Note: Humulin and Novolin Lente and Ultralente, two insulins with good track records in cats, have been discontinued by the manufacturers.) A conservative starting dose is 1.0-2.0 units, twice per day. If your cat’s blood glucose was less than 400 mg/dl (22.1 mmol/L) at diagnosis, or if your cat is on a low-carbohydrate diet, the starting dose should be only 0.5-1.0 units twice per day. Fast-acting insulins such as Humulin Regular, Humulin 70/30, and Humulin N (NPH) are not suitable starting insulins for cats, in the experience of FDMB members because of the high risk of hypoglycemia; Humulin N may be appropriate later on if you discover that longer-acting insulins cause problems for your cat. Vetsulin, also known as Caninsulin, is less harsh than Humulin N, but still appears to carry a risk of hypoglycemia, particularly for cats who are not meal-fed high-carbohydrate food, so please be aware of the risks.

Step 2. Don’t increase the dose until your cat has been on it for at least a week. If you have reason to be concerned about hypoglycemia, or if your cat won’t eat, do decrease the dose and contact your vet. Do test your cat’s urine frequently during the regulation process using Ketostix or Ketodiastix, and contact your vet immediately if the cat tests positive for ketones. Do be consistent in the timing and type of food. Do give the shots at about the same time every day.

Step 3. After 1-2 weeks at a given dose, you or your vet should perform a serial blood glucose curve (blood glucose tests every 2 hours, starting at shot time and continuing until the next shot). Follow the cat’s normal feeding schedule during the curve. The curve should be evaluated by someone experienced at interpreting feline blood glucose curves, in order to check for signs of rebound and other possible problems. If no rebound is present, follow these guidelines for dose adjustment (smaller adjustments may be appropriate for cats on PZI or Lantus):
a) If the lowest point of the curve is above 150 mg/dl (8.3 mmol/L), increase the dose by 0.5 unit.
b) If the lowest point of the curve is between 90 and 149 mg/dl (5.0 and 8.2 mmol/L), keep the dose the same.
c) If the lowest point of the curve is below 90 mg/dl (5.0 mmol/L), decrease the dose by 0.5 unit.
Step 4. Repeat the cycle of curving and waiting 1-2 weeks. As your cat’s blood glucose begins to fall mostly in the desired range [lowest point of the curve approaching 100 mg/dl (5.5 mmol/L) and pre-shot value around or below 300 mg/dl (16.6 mmol/L)], do lengthen the waiting time between dose increases. If you decide to change another factor (e.g., diet or other medications), don’t increase the insulin dose until the other change is complete (but do decrease the dose if your cat's glucose numbers consistently fall below 90 mg/dl (5.0 mmol/L) as a result of the change). Don’t be tempted to rush the process along by increasing the dose more quickly or in larger increments-- no matter how high your cat’s blood glucose is! Rushing towards regulation will cost you time in the long run, because you may shoot past the right dose.

Step 5. Once you can no longer increase the dose without the cat dropping below 90 mg/dl (5.0 mmol/L) at the lowest point, evaluate the duration of the insulin’s action. If your cat’s preshot blood glucose values are still consistently above 350 mg/dl (19.3 mmol/L), or if your cat’s blood glucose usually returns to preshot values more than an hour before the next shot is due, ask your vet about longer-duration insulins or possible adjustments to your cat’s food or feeding schedule.

That’s it — 5 steps! These steps are general guidelines that work for the majority of cats. Because every cat is different and exceptional situations may arise, your cat’s progress should be closely monitored by someone with experience regulating feline diabetics.

When it comes to curves, not every insulin is going to give you an almost flat curve.
The most smooth curve will come from the use of Levemir, and Lantus can be smooth but seems to have earlier nadirs and wider ranges between the high and low of many cats' numbers. Most recently, you are seeing more and more cats getting improved responses from Levemir and there are some vets who are now recommending the use of Levemir over Lantus to their diabetic clients.
 
RockStar033 said:
yea, i can totally get the middle of the night reading. We shoot her at 11/11 cuz it works best with our schedule as far as injections go. now that she's on her new dose i want to get more night readings because i have tons of day readings. i feel like we are on the right track now with the BID dosing instead of the SID.


This is great! With a little creative scheduling (and an alarm or two), you can do it successfully. If I can do it with my crazy life, anyone can. Thank goodness the meter saves the last few readings because half the time I was literally testing him in my sleep. Can't imagine if I also had to fiddle with his spreadsheet in that state, too. :smile:

Gayle Shadoe & Oliver said:
Telling people they need to test multiple times per day and getting up in the middle of the night to test is needed, stating it's the ONLY way, and then, oh sorry it's not needed, you can go with the SLGS method which is pretty much like saying change the dose once a week or two.

If you actually read that SLGS method I don't see where it states to test 3times a day, but it talks about the curves with 2hr interval testing, so below is the SLGS method from many years ago, note the mention of the old discontinued insulins. There is no daily testing in this SLGS method

I believe the 5x day testing recommendation is made in the forum for the first three days of insulin when there is no preexisting data in order to make sure the dose is appropriate and not going to cause a hypoglycemic incident. Since Annie has already been on Lantus and there is previous data gathered, I think TR with 3-4x daily testing on the lowered BID dose is perfectly safe, as long as a curve is being gathered on the weekend. Where it's not safe is if there are no daily mid-cycle checks being gathered. It's certainly not the only way to do it--but it is the way that has been proven to offer the best control over BG, and control over BG is which is what ultimately brings cats to remission.

The Roomp/Rand TR Protocol (which is what the protocol in the TR forum is adapted from) states requires a minimum of 3 tests per day. The average owner in the study of the protocol tested 5 times a day. When I did TR with Bandit, I was testing 4X a day during the week (before each shot, before bed, and then the PM mid-cycle check) and doing curves on the weekends when I was home during the day. I think you want to be more judicious with raising the dose and a bit more liberal with lowering the dose if you're testing minimally, but it's still perfectly doable and safe if you're getting at least 3-4 tests on weekdays, and then gathering more data when you can.

Like I said, yes, it's inconvenient to get the PM mid-cycle test, especially at first when your body is adjusting to the getting up and falling back asleep. However, I wholeheartedly believe that temporary 5-10 minute inconvenience is worth giving the cat the best possible chances at remission, because remission is the safest condition for the cat to be in, as well as the most convenient for the owner.
 
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