Pig 5/9 amps 120 - Just being a Pig..

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LuvinThisPig

LuvinThisPig

Member Since 2017
Yesterday's

Well, it would seem like I made a very good choice in dose last night. He saw a pretty quick and significant drop from the R. Maybe even a little more than I was comfortable with, but it worked out. I do not think I will see anything like a bounce off this because he has been pretty comfortable in the blues/greens. It was just a fast and steep drop. The L dose was right about on the nose and he saw a 120 for amps (typically L nadir for him). He did eat snacks all night long, low carb of course. I need to notate in the SS.

Now, I think the single most important thing for us to focus on at this moment in time is diet. I am doing research now and have found some interesting information regarding the healing qualities of bone broth and fresh marrow. It looks like I need to learn to make this stuff, so really any info that anyone has on cooking a good broth would be nice.. :p I can cook up some pastas and many other things and really am quite good at it, but meat has never been my favorite so I mostly avoid it. This translates into the fact that now I have no idea how to cook it or make the bone broth.. :rolleyes: I love this site here and I know Dr. Pierson has some great resources as well. I will be doing quite a bit of homework for a while. Yet, what I am reading is encouraging. If I can heal some of his gut wall then the likelihood of his constipation decreasing is very good. His colon was not overly distended or anyting on the US so we are doing very well in that department. Now it will be management.

For now though, it is all about rest and recouping. I slept almost straight through from the time we got back to the room until about 5 this morning with only short periods of wakefulness to feed, dose, test, and pee.. :p Pig has done the same. I think he is enjoying the Mom time without the bigger little bro around. He has been nothing if not glued to me ever since this whole ordeal began. :cat: I am enjoying the additional snuggles tremendously! :)
 
Wendy&Neko said:
I stopped giving vaccinations to Neko. https://catinfo.org/vaccines-for-cats-we-need-to-stop-overvaccinating/
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Wendy&Neko said:

I also didn't need to give flea/tick meds. Fortunately the majority of the house is hard wood floor. I would flea comb her regularly to check her, but once she stopped going out much, it wasn't a problem here.
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No. I like this idea very much. I tend to agree and that was something I never really understood, how humans could receive vaccinations to last a lifetime, but kitties needed them every year. I have always been very uncomfortable with them. Pig is strictly indoors when we are not gallivanting all over the country and so is Tail.

I think what I will do with the Flea/Tick thing is wait and see if a problem comes up and if I see no evidence, then no treatment. In fact, we had not had an issue with this at all for many years until I moved into an apartment with carpet and apparently the previous tenants had a flea issue. Yet, once I managed to eradicate them it was a nonissue. Now I have a house and it is all ceramic tile flooring, so I imagine it should not be an issue. ​
 
So glad things continue to go well for you and Mr. Pig. Glad you both got rest and are ready to move on with the next stage of your journey.

I think the site you are looking at provides some great ideas for bone broth. I make my own chicken stock all the time. My suggestion for you is to roast a whole chicken and then pull off most of the meat for your own use (set aside and reserve). Retain all bones, skin and any remaining meat pieces to use in your broth. You do need bones, so if a whole bird is too much, you might pick up a package of legs or leg quarters.

When making this for human use, I use vegetables and seasons people would like, but things like salt and onion won't be good for a cat, so omit these. Put the the bones in a pot and cover with cold water. Bring to almost a boil and then simmer for at least 3 hours. When done use a colander to remove all solids and discard. Theoretically you have cooked all flavor and nutrients out of them and they are now useless. Put the liquid in a bowl and cool overnight (covered in the fridge with plastic wrap). The next day you will have a thin layer of fat on top that has become solid. Remove this and the remaining broth should be almost jello like on consistency from the collagen in the bones. Freeze in small portions (i.e. ice cube tray or your new lunch blox). Use as you would like in place of water and to add nutrition.

Please remind me what his diet is now. I'm suggesting chicken because it is cheap, easily available and you can eat it too. If there is a requirement for more novel proteins you can use almost anything, but my experience is limited to chicken and turkey. I also make beef stock for other family recipes but I don't eat meat.

Hope you try this and let us know how it works for you. One more thing, bones have high P, so just wanted to mention anyone dealing with CKD would want to consider P when using bone broth.
 
Here is a good reference on making bone broth. The only caveat with bone broth, is that it's quite high in phosphorus, so if kidneys should ever become an issue with Pig, you'll have to lay off the broth.
LuvinThisPig said:
He has been nothing if not glued to me ever since this whole ordeal began.
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I found the SRT trips to be incredible bonding experiences with Neko.:kiss:

Good to see Mr. Pig back in blue. :cool:
 
Carol in Chicago said:
So glad things continue to go well for you and Mr. Pig. Glad you both got rest and are ready to move on with the next stage of your journey.

I think the site you are looking at provides some great ideas for bone broth. I make my own chicken stock all the time. My suggestion for you is to roast a whole chicken and then pull off most of the meat for your own use (set aside and reserve). Retain all bones, skin and any remaining meat pieces to use in your broth. You do need bones, so if a whole bird is too much, you might pick up a package of legs or leg quarters.

When making this for human use, I use vegetables and seasons people would like, but things like salt and onion won't be good for a cat, so omit these. Put the the bones in a pot and cover with cold water. Bring to almost a boil and then simmer for at least 3 hours. When done use a colander to remove all solids and discard. Theoretically you have cooked all flavor and nutrients out of them and they are now useless. Put the liquid in a bowl and cool overnight (covered in the fridge with plastic wrap). The next day you will have a thin layer of fat on top that has become solid. Remove this and the remaining broth should be almost jello like on consistency from the collagen in the bones. Freeze in small portions (i.e. ice cube tray or your new lunch blox). Use as you would like in place of water and to add nutrition.

Please remind me what his diet is now. I'm suggesting chicken because it is cheap, easily available and you can eat it too. If there is a requirement for more novel proteins you can use almost anything, but my experience is limited to chicken and turkey. I also make beef stock for other family recipes but I don't eat meat.

Hope you try this and let us know how it works for you. One more thing, bones have high P, so just wanted to mention anyone dealing with CKD would want to consider P when using bone broth.
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Oh thank you so much! This is perfect!

I am just now starting to look at restricting his diet even further. I have not found or settled on a novel protein as of yet. Since he is not full blown IBD (??) and only is showing a very minor reaction, it could simply be something in commercial foods. (I even worry it might be the MiraLax) Per feline-nutrition, if you can heal that gut wall, then the concept of a novel protein is not so detrimental and a good, eclectic raw is what they call for since cats glean the majority of their nutrient profile from variety in their diets. They suggest a new protein ever week (in raw, limited form) to round out this profile. Now, they did mention if clinical signs are reduced with the use of broth and then to raw, but reoccur with the use of a specific protein, then that protein should be avoided. I would imagine things like chicken or more common proteins would be a big issue. I am going to try venison first as he did really well with this to start. I think the trick in mild cases is to try to heal that wall first and that is where the broth comes in.

I was concerned about the P, but Dr. Fidel said his values were looking really good. Now, I may be misunderstanding it, but the broth is used only as an introductory diet and is not necessary after healing. As I understand it, once clinical signs have abated, they can be managed solely with diet - without the addition of broth. This would mean that the P can be reduced back to almost nothing. I think the largest issue I have now is do I attempt to find raw quality meat and prepare my own or do I trust RadCat. Then, the constipation of course. It might be a matter of partial cooking and then blending, but either way, I am thinking that home cooking diets is now going to be my new thing... :p

This bone broth recipe is great!! Thank you!

Do you not feed the fat to your kitties? On the site they talk of the kitties needing to eat ALL the marrow and fat... I am just curious if this is true or not.
 
Wendy&Neko said:
Here is a good reference on making bone broth. The only caveat with bone broth, is that it's quite high in phosphorus, so if kidneys should ever become an issue with Pig, you'll have to lay off the broth.
Click to expand...
Awesome! Thank you! I have a ton of homework to do, but from what I understand the broth is used only until clinical signs have subsided. Dr. Fidel said his values were good, but this does not mean I want to flood his system with P, either... I will need to do more homework.

Wendy&Neko said:
I found the SRT trips to be incredible bonding experiences with Neko.:kiss:
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Yes, I am finding it an amazing experience.. We are following in some pretty mighty footsteps for sure! :bighug::bighug::bighug:
Wendy&Neko said:
Good to see Mr. Pig back in blue. :cool:
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And he got there quick! I was a little surprised at the R drop, but it worked out perfectly. Now he is holding nicely around the 120 range and I think until we get home that is a good comfortable spot. He might trend a bit higher today because no R, but if so I will pad with another unit or so. I like this range and I think he does too..
 
Hum... I may be keeping my suggestion too human focused. I pull off the fat because I use the broth in cooking. If they are saying to use it or use some of it, there should be no problem it is a natural fat and would have been ingested if the cat were to eat the whole meat (chicken, turkey whatever).

My kitties don't eat the broth. Rosie has move almost completely to RadCat. This has been very good for her. I continue to use FF in her overnight feeder just because I don't want to leave raw out over night (even with the cold pack). RadCat is a great option, but expensive. I have had a couple of questions and called the 800 number on the package. I found them very helpful and knowledgeable.

I would like to make my own raw, but have been discouraged when shopping for a grinder. I don't want to buy the wrong thing.
 
Carol in Chicago said:
My kitties don't eat the broth. Rosie has move almost completely to RadCat. This has been very good for her. I continue to use FF in her overnight feeder just because I don't want to leave raw out over night (even with the cold pack). RadCat is a great option, but expensive. I have had a couple of questions and called the 800 number on the package. I found them very helpful and knowledgeable.
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I agree. I love RadCat. You did remind me of an issue. I cannot really leave raw in the auto-feeder, but I have to restrict him to a single protein at a time so that I do not trigger a associative reaction in his gut... hmmm. I wonder if leaving out a chunk of frozen raw that can slowly thaw would work??
Carol in Chicago said:
I would like to make my own raw, but have been discouraged when shopping for a grinder. I don't want to buy the wrong thing.
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That website I posted above gives some amazing options. I find the hardest thing in home preparing raw is finding a quality meat source. You cannot simply use meat from the meat department as the health regulations for human meat are far more lax than those meats used for raw pet food. With human meat they bank on us cooking the meat and killing the surface bacterium. With raw meat produced for pet food they kill and clean the animal in a very sterile facility and immediately flash freeze it before surface bacterium can grow. I cannot get anything remotely close to this in my area and instead have to ship it in with a massive shipping cost. This alone makes it veritably impossible... However, I can purchase and ship RadCat for a fraction of the cost of the other... I am hoping the RadCat takes.

I feel certain that if I can mitigate this inflammation before any lasting damage is done, then I can heal and rebuild the gut wall. Then it will be only a matter of maintenance diets of raw foods.
 
LuvinThisPig said:
Yesterday's

Well, it would seem like I made a very good choice in dose last night. He saw a pretty quick and significant drop from the R. Maybe even a little more than I was comfortable with, but it worked out. I do not think I will see anything like a bounce off this because he has been pretty comfortable in the blues/greens. It was just a fast and steep drop. The L dose was right about on the nose and he saw a 120 for amps (typically L nadir for him). He did eat snacks all night long, low carb of course. I need to notate in the SS.

Now, I think the single most important thing for us to focus on at this moment in time is diet. I am doing research now and have found some interesting information regarding the healing qualities of bone broth and fresh marrow. It looks like I need to learn to make this stuff, so really any info that anyone has on cooking a good broth would be nice.. :p I can cook up some pastas and many other things and really am quite good at it, but meat has never been my favorite so I mostly avoid it. This translates into the fact that now I have no idea how to cook it or make the bone broth.. :rolleyes: I love this site here and I know Dr. Pierson has some great resources as well. I will be doing quite a bit of homework for a while. Yet, what I am reading is encouraging. If I can heal some of his gut wall then the likelihood of his constipation decreasing is very good. His colon was not overly distended or anyting on the US so we are doing very well in that department. Now it will be management.

For now though, it is all about rest and recouping. I slept almost straight through from the time we got back to the room until about 5 this morning with only short periods of wakefulness to feed, dose, test, and pee.. :p Pig has done the same. I think he is enjoying the Mom time without the bigger little bro around. He has been nothing if not glued to me ever since this whole ordeal began. :cat: I am enjoying the additional snuggles tremendously! :)
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I make chicken bone broth in my Instant Pot, an electric pressure cooker. I have been pressure cooking extra chicken for Idjit treats, snacks, padding out canned food. I can cook it from frozen, I bone the chicken, and freeze the bones in Ziploc bag until I have a bag full. Into the pot for 240 minutes with water, I get chicken "jelly" when cooled and defatted. I sometimes freeze and then add the water I used to cook the chicken in with the bones. Have been freezing in ice cube trays, thaw out one and add it to the canned food. Idjit loves it.
 
Idjit's mom said:
I make chicken bone broth in my Instant Pot, an electric pressure cooker. I have been pressure cooking extra chicken for Idjit treats, snacks, padding out canned food. I can cook it from frozen, I bone the chicken, and freeze the bones in Ziploc bag until I have a bag full. Into the pot for 240 minutes with water, I get chicken "jelly" when cooled and defatted. I sometimes freeze and then add the water I used to cook the chicken in with the bones. Have been freezing in ice cube trays, thaw out one and add it to the canned food. Idjit loves it.
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Oh yes! This is amazing and perfect! Thank you! I think I will need to purchase a bit more supplies... lol
 
@Stacy & Asia I can't seem to remember the tag for the person who gave you the tip for MSM powder on you Adequan thread. I snaked the link and ordered Pig some, but was hoping for some tips on how to start it and use it right... How is Miss Asia today? I see the R is working quite nicely for her! That is a huge relief!! :bighug::bighug::bighug:
 
LuvinThisPig said:
@Stacy & Asia I can't seem to remember the tag for the person who gave you the tip for MSM powder on you Adequan thread. I snaked the link and ordered Pig some, but was hoping for some tips on how to start it and use it right... How is Miss Asia today? I see the R is working quite nicely for her! That is a huge relief!! :bighug::bighug::bighug:
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I use radcat in the autofeeder overnight. I have tiny dishes like you would put soy sauce in that fit in the wells and I put icebubes on top of the food to melt over time. I've also added ice cubes below the dishes if I know it's extra hot or I load the feeder up early. My nightly routine the longest the food is in there is 4-5 hours. You can also put frozen in there and let it thaw. Touch wood, never had any issues with tummy upset/food spoilage. I have some peace of mind they use HPP on raw too, so it likely isn't teeming with bacteria the moment it thaws.

I know what thread you're talking about and I'll see if I can find it. I don't recall exactly who suggested the MSM powder to me on that thread, but I know @HWright uses it.

Asia is doing okay today, she's been in the 200s most of today. I don't have Internet at the moment so you probably can't see her up to date SS. I like the control of R, it is a relief! Still need to figure some things out to find how to use it best, but so far, so good. Humans don't bounce because when their BG goes high, they correct it! I very much like the basal in the background keeping things smooth and being able to make short term corrections on top of that. :)

Glad to see Pig back in blue, that sure didn't take long. I know it's going to be a bumpy crazy ride going forward as he slides down the dosing ladder, but it's still very exciting. Just remember every time you are freaking out trying to figure which way is up that this is all happening because the tumor is getting its butt kicked! ;) :bighug:

ETA: I will find the thread and get back to you, but internet is out since yesterday and doing these things on my phone is beyond tedious to me, so it may be tomorrow or whenever our service is restored
 
Stacy & Asia said:
ETA: I will find the thread and get back to you, but internet is out since yesterday and doing these things on my phone is beyond tedious to me, so it may be tomorrow or whenever our service is restored
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No worries! Whenever you can... I totally understand trying to do the whole thing on the phone. It is nothing but a pain! My thumbs apparently are far to big and entirely not dexterous enough to manage adequate spelling or grammar on the phone.. :confused:

Stacy & Asia said:
Glad to see Pig back in blue, that sure didn't take long
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Agreed. To be honest, it was a bit of surprise that he floated down that fast. I opted for a decreased 4u from my scales and was a little taken aback by how fast he fell in only 3.5 hours... He is hanging steady around the 100 range, but I am interested to see where this is going to go. I even cut his dose by 5uL last night as well. Honestly, I am glad I did as he is already sitting fairly low and is just about mid-cycle.. Of course, none of it seems to even phase him... :rolleyes:

Stacy & Asia said:
Asia is doing okay today, she's been in the 200s most of today. I don't have Internet at the moment so you probably can't see her up to date SS. I like the control of R, it is a relief! Still need to figure some things out to find how to use it best, but so far, so good. Humans don't bounce because when their BG goes high, they correct it! I very much like the basal in the background keeping things smooth and being able to make short term corrections on top of that. :)
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Wonderful! I think that was my most favorite part about having the R in the mix, the added control. I stopped using it as he just did not need it. However, with the larger depot and his soon to be decline in need has me wanting to pull the L back a bit so I can leverage the R incase a rapid change is needed. This is something I am going to consider soon. I am glad that it is working good for Miss Asia... At least it keeps you from having to do the TIB. I assume that was partially the goal. I cannot imagine that would have been overly easy.

Stacy & Asia said:
I use radcat in the autofeeder overnight. I have tiny dishes like you would put soy sauce in that fit in the wells and I put icebubes on top of the food to melt over time. I've also added ice cubes below the dishes if I know it's extra hot or I load the feeder up early. My nightly routine the longest the food is in there is 4-5 hours. You can also put frozen in there and let it thaw. Touch wood, never had any issues with tummy upset/food spoilage. I have some peace of mind they use HPP on raw too, so it likely isn't teeming with bacteria the moment it thaws.
Click to expand...
This is awesome!! If I can put raw in the feeder then we will be okay! I worry, though, if I put it in there frozen that he won't get all ravenous (like pigs like to do) and choke on a piece of frozen meat... He is smarter than that, but anxiety tells me its possible... :p I do, however, think a good test run is in order when we get home. I am in the process of communicating with feline-nutrition to see if they recommend the use of bone broth with the raw or with another food before the move to solely raw. Good thing I have a freezer full of the stuff! :woot: Turns out, Tail's ear might be the cause of a food reaction as well, so I guess we are going 100% raw or home cooked.... :smuggrin: I am hoping to find a way to make it work with Pig's digestion. I think if I can give him a million tiny meals a day this might appease his intestinal Gods and we will make some progress..
 
LuvinThisPig said:
I put it in there frozen that he won't get all ravenous (like pigs like to do) and choke on a piece of frozen meat.
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If I load it up and I know the next meal is going to be in an hour or less, I just add a little water and no ice cube. So you could put the nearest meal of defrosted cat food instead of frozen if you are worried. My friend's cats will eat raw food frozen. :eek: Stella and Chewies they have little nuggets larger than kidney beans! His cats have been fine when it happens, they are pigs too. ;) I don't think it's highly likely to choke on something frozen that is mush when thawed as I assume their body heat would defrost it enough that it would decrease in size a tad should it get lodged anywhere.
 
Stacy & Asia said:
If I load it up and I know the next meal is going to be in an hour or less, I just add a little water and no ice cube. So you could put the nearest meal of defrosted cat food instead of frozen if you are worried. My friend's cats will eat raw food frozen. :eek: Stella and Chewies they have little nuggets larger than kidney beans! His cats have been fine when it happens, they are pigs too. ;) I don't think it's highly likely to choke on something frozen that is mush when thawed as I assume their body heat would defrost it enough that it would decrease in size a tad should it get lodged anywhere.
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I know you are right about this... I am just crazy paranoid with irrational fears.. :p
I do like the idea of putting a thawed meal out for the first feeding... That will give time for the rest to pretty much thaw out...
 
I followed the recipe Wendy linked. I bought beef bone and other big bones. I put them in slow cooker and let them cook for about 14 hrs. The smell got to be to much for me. Since I wasn't using the bone I just need the marrow to come out. Once bones were hollow, it was done. Put in fridge for awhile and you can remove most the fat easily. Then I froze in ice cube tray and once frozen put in Ziploc baggie. One cube would last me 3 days. I took one out when I finished one. I only gave (1 tsp daily) to Smokey to help him eat and help his digestion. He loved it.
 
Love-Paula aka Woodsywife said:
I followed the recipe Wendy linked. I bought beef bone and other big bones. I put them in slow cooker and let them cook for about 14 hrs. The smell got to be to much for me. Since I wasn't using the bone I just need the marrow to come out. Once bones were hollow, it was done. Put in fridge for awhile and you can remove most the fat easily. Then I froze in ice cube tray and once frozen put in Ziploc baggie. One cube would last me 3 days. I took one out when I finished one. I only gave (1 tsp daily) to Smokey to help him eat and help his digestion. He loved it.
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Yes... I am perusing that site now. It is all very good information... He certainly does not need any help with appetite, but if it is something that he can really enjoy then we are totally game for it. Yet, I want to be aware of kidney values as I am hearing a lot of warning over the P.... He was a bit elevated a few months ago, but this was attributed to him not being regulated. Dr. Fidel said his values were fine, but it does concern me a tad..
 
Hmm... I am thinking this nice pretty cycle can be attributed at least slightly to the R dose last night. I will keep him at 40u for tonight and see where he goes, but I may pull a few units for the trip home...
 
LuvinThisPig said:
Yes... I am perusing that site now. It is all very good information... He certainly does not need any help with appetite, but if it is something that he can really enjoy then we are totally game for it. Yet, I want to be aware of kidney values as I am hearing a lot of warning over the P.... He was a bit elevated a few months ago, but this was attributed to him not being regulated. Dr. Fidel said his values were fine, but it does concern me a tad..
Click to expand...

I don't know about the phosphorus. I have no idea how much could leach during cooking.
 
Well, he is surfing it out and hanging at 89 for pmps. What a great way to end up our day of rest. Right back on kitty track!
 
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