Picking up newly diagnosed 16y/o cat.

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Dolly is doing so much better today. Yesterday she was getting into her litter box every few minutes and only having a couple of drops of pee come out. The vet put her on clavamox which is an amoxicillin for cats. I am thrilled it worked so quickly. The vet still does not want me to give her any insulin, and to call him if BS goes over 350. Well I have a call into him cause her BS is running around 370 today. I am still hoping it is high because of the UTI. But I really don't know yet.
I am very curious to see what he says. I don't like it that high!
 
Yes, the clavamox can work very quickly and very well if it's an infection and not caused by anything else (i.e. crystals). It might take a couple of days up to a week before you see lowered BGs as the infection clears out (or as it resolves itself if it's not an infection).

Good of you to call. I would be a little worried myself since high BGs + infection are part of the recipe for DKA. How is her appetite? What food are you feeding her? If wet, try adding a bit more water than you normally do as this will help flush her out.

ETA: improper use of pronouns :oops:
 
She seems to like the Fancy Feast whitefish & tuna. I have been warming it up a bit and sprinkling a little parmesan on it. She is only eating about 1/2 of the can three times per day or so. I am also concerned that she might not be eating enough. She used to be solely on dry Science Diet mature cat hairball control only, so transitioning her to wet food only has been a challenge.
 
Great idea. I will check for ketones as soon as I can. I still have not gotten a call back from the vet .
 
Also I have noticed that I am able to get her to eat more if I hold the plate up to her mouth. Otherwise she would stop eating sooner if I left her alone.
 
Ok. Yes I am a pest and I don't care. I called the vet clinic again to see if I could catch the vet in between patients and he got on the line. I told him Dolly's BG level and he said to call him Tomorrow if it is still above the 150 mark. But I will keep. He king her ketones just to be safe, which requires constant litter box vigil.
 
I think you are right to be worried. 350 is a diabetic number. Now that you can test, you can make sure she doesn't dip too low on a small dose. Is this the same vet that told you to shoot on a 97?

Were you able to get a ketone test?
 
It's a different Vet thank goodness, but from the same clinic. He is the one that said those numbers of 80'to 120ish were low and not to continue insulin till above 300 and to call him before injecting. So after about 3 different vets from initial hospitalization till now I am keeping my fingers crosses this guy knows what he is doing.
I have not been able to catch my
Dolly getting in her litter box, but I will keep trying.
 
Oh wow, I would never have thought of that. What a great idea. Thanks so much for that suggestion. I am on my way!
 
Awesome! I did the saran wrap trick & obtained a sample. Thank goodness, negative! Thanks for all the helpful tips. Again, I am so,thankful for this website!
 
Took my Dolly in for her vet check. He has had me monitor her BG levels for a few days and they have been running consistently about 300 up until today and it rose to 380. He is putting her back on PZI half a unit twice a day and wants me to check her BG 4 hours after her breakfast. I know she needs the insulin to bring those numbers down. My concern is after her evening meal I want to check again before giving more insulin. I don't want it to drop to low and risk hypo.
My latest concern is she has been throwing up bile a couple of times or a day. I hope she doesn't have pancreatitis or something else going on with her. UGH.
 
Well, you know what we are going to say. :mrgreen: we want you to test before every shot to be sure that her number is over 200 and safe to shoot. And if you can get some tests in 5-7 hours after the shot, you can see how low the insulin takes her.

You need to test before feeding. Food can raise blood glucose numbers. You want to shoot a "real" number, not one influenced by food. We test, then feed and shoot. Lots of us shoot while they are eating.

Hope her tummy settles down. Have you changed to wet food? Maybe sticking with one flavor for a few days is a good idea.
 
Absolutely , I decided since her sugar is so high tonite to feed her and then to give her the Insulin just for tonite. But I will try to test her around 9:00pm to see if it has gone down at all. So tomorrow morning I will test her as I am giving her morning meal to make sure she is still over 200 before giving her more juice. I have had her on wet food ever since this ordeal per all the forums advice and have kept her on the one fancy feast whitefish and tuna which she seems to like. The vet today wasn't to keen on my whole diet change for her saying that the diabetic specific cat foods, either dry or wet are best. But after reading so much on this forum I beg to differ, but we will see. I will check her urine tonite for ketones and watch her closely regarding her vomiting issue.
 
I would see if she will eat other food besides seafood as it doesn't have the necessary nutrients for a healthy steady diet of it. Fish or seafood should only be given about two times a week.

As for the vet... they are too well programmed/compensated by Purina and Science Diet to believe that anything found on the internet beats their food. Their time is limited and they spend it on learning about new pet diseases rather than proper food. However- Dr. Lisa is currently writing a paper that explains the right food for cats.
 
Thanks for the advice. I didn't know about the fish not being enough nutrients. She only seems to like that one. I will try to get her to eat other fancy feast classics. Keep my fingers crossed.
 
I thought the fish restriction was due to the possible contamination with heavy metals such as mercury.
As far as I know, any manufactured cat food has to meet standards for nutrition.
 
Lcody said:
She seems to like the Fancy Feast whitefish & tuna.
Click to expand...

Is this the gravy lovers variety? I can't find specific data on that one, but I believe all of the gravy lovers ones are higher carb (just based on the gravy probably)
 
No it is not one with gravy. I bought just the classics and none of them have gravy. I hope this low carb and maybe weight loss would help her go into remission.
She only weighs 11 1/2 lbs.
 
It could be due to the food change, especially if done abruptly. Adding a tablespoon of water to the food may help.

This resource will tell you more than you ever wanted to know about Feline Constipation

How long has it been? If only a day or two, you might try 1/8 teaspoon of Miralax mixed in the food with water.

If several days, a vet visit may be needed to ensure your cat is not obstructed first. Pushing things through will not work if obstructed and may injure the GI tract.
 
Hi Cody (?) -

I'm Lu-Ann and I started my boy Grayson on ProZinc. We did the food change for a week before we started insulin, at the suggestion of an experienced person here. I didn't read anywhere in your thread about this, so I'll pass it on: Some kitties will drop BG levels 100 points just from the food change!

I also have a foster that came to me on 4u ProZinc. She only got lo-carb canned (Fancy Feast Chicken or Turkey). When I tested her she was usually about 75-100... healthy cat numbers. She has been completely diet controlled for 9 months! The food change may be all you need to keep Dolly healthy! And it may turn out to be all you need. Be sure to use the food chart at catinfo.org to find the lowest carb foods for Dolly. G doesn't do well with red meats, so we stick to the poultry varieties with occasional seafood - all FF Classics. list is at www.catinfo.org.

Glad you found us!

I also recently learned that a vet tech who may be pet-sitting for you will not dose any quantity other than what the vet prescribed for the pet. Apparently that is a standard, so I'm not surprised that's what they told you. I have friends who pet-sit for me, and they can call/text me with a number and I can tell them the quantity to dose, if need be. Or they can go from a designated scale based on MY kitty's numbers (ie: above 300 - shoot 1u; 200-299 - shoot .5; and 150-199 - shoot .25u; and anything less than 150 - skip shot.).

So many variables could be affecting Dolly's BGs - your absense, the vet, the infection, not enough water, dry food... so now that you can control the food/water and the infection is getting addressed, you might be surprised to see a significant turnaround. Hope so!
 
Thanks to everyone's posts! Yippee, Dolly finally had a BM after three days. I gave her a tsp of canned pumpkin wither meals yesterday and I think that helped. Also, I have been feedi g her Fancy Feast classsics whitefish and tuna which she really likes. She wasn't eating the other favors till I got that one. I guess I will need to keep trying to get her to eat other poultry classics as well.
I finally downloaded the spreadsheet template and renamed it, but that is as far as I got.i am not sure how to fill it out yet and what the abbrev mean etc.
Also, I never thought of regulating Dolly's Insulin as a result of BG readings. Great idea. Her am BG Pre Shot has been running about 275 and 4 hrs later it is 180, except yesterday it dropped to 116. At night pre shot it is about 300. I give her 0.5 Units twice daily.
 
The spreadsheet: amps=morning number before food and shot. U= units given. +1, +5 = hours after the shot. Pmps=evening number before shot

To put it in your signature so we can see it, first go to Share on top RH side and pick share with anyone with the link. Then got to LH side and choose File, then Publish and start publishing. The url that comes up is the one you highlight, copy and paste into your signature. If you want it to say Dolly's SS, type it this way: [/url= then paste in the long url from your spreadsheet ] Dolly's SS [/url]

Submit and it should come up everytime you post.
 
Dolly's BG was only 131 this am. Should I not give her the 0.5 U and wait till her insulin is due again and check her BG? Or should I check BG iagain in four hours and if it's up give her the PZI. At that time?
 
This is where the sheet would be really handy!

When did you last feed? We normally would want you to wait 30minutes ( dont shoot dont feed) and test again to see if she is rising naturally but if you fed then you wont be able to tell because she will be rising due to the food.

Wendy
 
To be on the safe side, and given that you dont have a lot of data (no spreadsheet) and she just ate which will influence her numbers, and that there is no experienced PZI users around right now.. I would skip. Edited to add- I sent a PM to Elizabeth and Bertie since they seem to use PZI. Lets see their thoughts.

However it would be really useful data to get some tests in today to see what she does without the insulin. Also do you have urine ketone strips in the house?

For future, its test, then feed/shoot. But if you get a low preshot number- then dont feed or shoot. Wait 30mins and test again to see what she is doing naturally.

And lets get that spreadsheet set up!

Wendy
 
Sounds like a plan. Yes, I have ketone strips and I will keep an eye on BG levels today. Thanks so much. I will try to work on SS this aft when I get back from my Dr appt!
 
Well since you arent shooting I would get a ketone urine test in later today just to be on the safe side. Later today because his BG is low right now so he probably doesnt have ketones yet but if he heads up above 300 you will want to do one for sure.

let us know if you need a hand with the SS.
 
Hi,

I use a different PZI to you, but agree with Wendy that it's better to skip this shot.

That 131 (7.2) is at the higher end of normal blood glucose numbers! Interesting....

Eliz
 
Ok. I just finished the Spreadsheet. I told it to start publishing. Then I copied document link and went to user control panel ,profile tab & edit sig. and under url and pasted. But I don't know if that is correct? I am not so computer savy.

Oh and I took Dolly's BG At 1PM and it was only 1421. No Insulin given this am.
 
Go into

User control panel
Profile
Edit signature
Click the URL link above the empty post box, then paste your URL in the centre
Then click preview to see how it works
Hit submit if its ok
 
It looks great. Be sure you have the original copy in your bookmarks or favorites. The one in your signature is a read only.

Now for the numbers. What I'd suggest is to "chase the numbers":

When your cat is consistently in numbers too low to shoot at shot time and in numbers in the 100 range and below during the cycle, you can consider micro dosing. This process should be guided on the forum by experienced members and will require more frequent testing. (If you want help with this, post on the PZI forum)

You may be shooting at times longer than the 12/12 schedule, when the blood glucose levels rise enough to require a small dose of insulin. You will need to pick a number somewhere near the 200 range at which you will plan to shoot, being sure that the number is indeed rising. The dose at these low numbers will vary with each cat and its patterns, so advice should be solicited. But you may be considering doses below .25 and even considering a “drop” of insulin. At this point, U100 needles and the conversion chart may be necessary. (For you, I'd think .5 may work above 200 but your testing will tell you.)

It is important during this period to offer small frequent meals. You may want to experiment with the lowest carb foods to help bring down the numbers, staying away from seafood more than once or twice a week.

Does that make sense? You never shoot earlier than 12/12. You shoot when the number is 200+ past 12/12. So on your spreadsheet, he is at 142 16 hours after the last shot. When he reaches 200, you shoot .5 and then monitor until he reaches 200 again - most likely to be more than 12 hours after that shot.
 
Yes, I think what you said is if her blood glucose is rising to 200 or above that I could give her .5 as long as its been at least 12 hours since her last shot. And keep checking BG levels Until it reaches above 200 again, which shouldn't be for another 12 hrs?

Also, I,tried to feed her the fancy feast classic chicken w/Parmesan on it last night and she only would eat a small amount.i don't want her to starve, that is why I keep feeding her thw whitefish and tuna cause she will eat that one. Any suggestions to get her to like another one?
 
ok cool it works!

Could you add some more details to your signature as well as the link ie Dolly ?8lb, 16yr old female . PZI 0.5IU. Meter: ?Relion. Fancy feast. It reminds people whats going on without having to read all prior posts.

As for food, you could try and transition gradually.You could try mixing the chicken ones with the fish ones in varying ratios of fish to chicken until its just chicken eventually...
 
Thanks again. You have been so helpful. I am so appreciative. Next I will try to upload a photo. It's all still so new to me.
 
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