Pet numbers vs Human numbers

[Lion]

Hi everyone,

The last curve I ran before FDMB was using a pet monitor. Lion was at 2 units and it looked like this:

6am 324
9am 170
12:30pm 103
2:30pm 121
6pm 379

I'm not putting this on my spreadsheet as generally my records are a mess before FDMB.

I know there is no easy conversion, but can someone please tell me the equivalent in human numbers? I"m especially interested in the low of 103.

Thank you!

 

[Librarianista]

There is unfortunately no direct conversion between a pet meter and a human meter.

Anecdotal evidence suggests that they vary widely at the higher range (e.g. a 350 on a human meter could be a 500 on a pet meter), but the differences are less severe at the lower numbers. A 90 on a human meter might be a 120 on a pet meter. But they all have roughly 20% margins of error.

 

[smorgasbord]

This was the very first thread I started when I first joined, asking what the conversion was, so I feel your pain.
I transitioned over to a human meter slowly, and continued to get pet (AlphaTrak) readings at the same time as human readings (CVS AgaMatrix) for far too long.
I have some of the readings side by side in my SS under the "range" tab. Hopefully this helps, I understand the need for data.

6am 324 (I got a 324 pet, 253 human)

9am 170 (I got a 169 pet, 124 human)

12:30pm 103 (I got a 104 pet, 61 human)

2:30pm 121 (I got a 120 pet, 79 human)

6pm 379 (I got a 379 pet, 256 human)

 

[Lion]

Thank you Joey. I will take a look at your spreadsheet. But just looking at your numbers above may answer my question. When Lion hit 60 today on a human monitor I was panicked, but I'm now suspecting he often hit 60 in the past, I just didn't realize it because I was using a pet monitor.

Thank you very much for your post.

 

[smorgasbord]

hit 60 today

You're welcome! And remember, 60 isn't a bad number. It's actually a good number, it's just shocking and scary to see it at first after so many high numbers. I felt the same way when we first started

 

[Lion]

Hi, then why does the How to Treat Hypos sheet say to give food or treats to raise it if its between 40 and 60? Thanks!

 

[Librarianista]

Hi, then why does the How to Treat Hypos sheet say to give food or treats to raise it if its between 40 and 60? Thanks!

A lot of this depends on *when* your cat hits these lower numbers.

If you see these low numbers at or around his nadir, a little low carb will keep the kitty surfing in a safe range. The BG will rise throughout the latter part of the cycle and hypo dangers should be clear. A test an hour or 2 later should confirm that the cycle is working the way it should be.

However, if your cat is low with hours to go before his nadir, he'll go lower as the Lantus kicks in and keeps working, and you need to boost that with food so the insulin doesn't take him too low.

These are the guidelines for feeding at low numbers that I have recorded (human meter numbers):

>59 Feed Low Carb
50-59 Feed Medium Carb
<49 Feed High Carb and/or Karo/Honey

The Karo/Honey will raise the BG quickly, but it will drop again pretty quickly - usually 20-30 minutes. Food will keep those numbers up for a longer duration while the insulin works through the cycle.

Below 50 gets food regardless of when in the cycle it happens, but I might do MC if it's at nadir rather than HC and keep testing to see if she needs more.

 

[Lion]

That makes sense, thank you. The problem is I only work from home on some days and some days I am in the office.

Another issue is there is no feeding low carb at a low. He only grazes all day, the only way to get him to eat more at any given time is high carb.

Right now I’ll just try to get him going on SLGS with consistency and worry about each problem as it comes up : )

 

[Mocha's_mom]

There's not a conversion unfortunately. And even between 2 different human meters you will find inconsistencies (not nearly as big as human to animal tho). The important thing to look for is trends. Where is the onset, where is the nadir? The trends will help you make decisions about dosing.

Feeding is definitely an issue with Mocha too. He went from grazing all day on high carb food to low carb all the way. He gets low carb dry food to graze and low carb FF wet a few times a day. I should say "I offer wet food several times a day". I still can't get him to eat anything consistently so it's a struggle. Sometimes he will just lick the wet food to death, sometimes he'll actually eat it & sometimes he snubs his nose. He's very moody. In the very beginning I put some of his old high carb kibble on top of the wet food and he looked at me like, really? now my yummy food is tainted!

Does Lion like anything low carb as a treat? One of my cats loves the freeze dried chicken. And Mocha gets deli meat when I take his blood.

 

[Librarianista]

You seem comfortable with BG meters, and I see he has a Freestyle on and you're feeding LC wet food. You could do TR if you choose. Since it looks like you're starting fresh, you would hold this dose for the next couple of days anyway.

I am also sometimes at home and sometimes in the office. Either way, I leave wet food out all day for her to graze. If I'm going to be in the office, I might pick a food that's slightly higher on the LC scale than if I were at home. If he is used to grazing, that's not a problem for the Lantus. On days I am home, I notice Chloe going back to her food dish around her nadir. Like people, cats will snack when they feel their BGs start to get low

Best of luck! Hopefully he clears this bounce quickly as you both get on the new routine.

 

[Lion]

Christina - Lion had some teeth removed and there were complications. I was given an appetite stimulant called Mirataz. My vet has said it is okay to stay on it longer than 14 days (I can’t promise that it is, check with your vet.) but Lion has been staying on it while we get him a little more set with the diabetes. It adds a whole other level to the drama when he won’t eat before a shot. I haven’t ever done snacks. Lion is probably lucky I give him wet food twice a day, it’s a lot more work than leaving out the high carb dry food I used to feed both kitties with 4 years ago. : )

Alex & Shane – yes, I’m not really fully decided between TR and SLGS. Right now I’m just trying to get him a little more consistent for 3 full days! Since I suspect his correct dose is 1.75 or 2.00 I’m not opposed to changing more frequently than every 7 days, but I don’t think I could take the stress of the lower threshold for TR.

What food do you leave out when you are in the office? Lion has been on Friskies Pate for 4 years.

My vet said to not worry about Lion not eating right before the shot if he has been grazing all day. People on FDMB said they tend to disagree (and I’m feeling I disagree also).

Do you shoot if Chloe has not nibbled or ate for 2 hours before the shot?

 

[Librarianista]

We do Weruva foods now because of her kidneys, and they stay moist most of the day.

Before that, we were on Friskies and Fancy Feast. You can add water to the pates, and that keeps them moister longer. They might start to get cakey at +8 or +9, but by that point, I’m almost on my way home to pick up the food anyway. No food between +10 and PMPS. Chloe’s a picky texture eater so we had mixed results with that. If she got hungry enough, she'd eat it. If she pouted and didn't, she just gobbled up the fresher second meal faster.

There are a few reasons it’s suggested not to feed them 2 hours before each shot. 1 is so that you get an accurate BG reading at pre-shot that should not be influenced by food. The other is so that they’re a little hungry when you do put food down and will eat something when you give the insulin.

Chloe almost never eats more than a tablespoon or 2 in the morning, and I shoot within 15 minutes of her eating something (she does not like the shot while eating). She usually eats more in one sitting when I put down the evening meal. I have observed her long enough to know that she’ll go back to the bowl a few times in the morning, usually after things calm down in the kitchen and we’re not making breakfast for ourselves or anything. Since Lantus doesn't kick in until about +2 normally, as long as she eats in that first 2 hours, I've been counseled several times on this board that it is fine to give insulin as long as she eats in those first 2 hours.

So because I've learned that about her habits, yes, I'll shoot even if she's barely eaten that morning. I might top the dish off with a little MC gravy before I go (and make sure she smells the open can) if she's not showing ANY interest in food. If I started to notice anything off for more than 1 cycle, I'd probably post on the board for suggestions on what to do. It could be breaking out the MC or HC food (at that point, anything is better than nothing). Shooting a reduced dose is sometimes an option. It all depends on that situation.

 

[Lion]

The Weruva foods look interesting. Would you mind giving me a brief summary of the different types? It looks like they come in cans and pouches, and then there are bunch of different types (Truluxe, Classic, BFF etc) beyond that.

I have been removing food 1 hour before the shot, so it sounds like I was on the right path with that. If needed I’ll do that 2 hours before the shot when possible (I’m not always home).

Lions food bowl is in the spare bedroom. I know the 2 times I monitored he ate about 1 ½ ounces between shot and +3. This could be explored further if needed.

Oh! and what is the .75 Clavamox please?

 

[Librarianista]

So long as he's not begging for food and always has access to it, he's probably getting enough I don't get up early in the morning just to pick up her dish, so might only get 1 hour of no food in the morning, like with your PM situation.

Oh boy. I have gone down the Weruva rabbit hole trying to find something my girl likes to eat and have tried at least a few flavors in almost every line. So I'll try to keep this dissertation short.

The different lines of food seem to be based on textures. Most cans have a corresponding pouch. If the line (e.g. BFF PLAY) and the primary ingredients are the same (e.g. chicken and tuna), the food will likely be very similar. The nutrition info can sometimes be different, though, so the recipes aren't identical. I tend to lean toward the cans because it's easier to store leftovers. My girl does not usually eat a full 2.8 oz pouch and I hate throwing the food away. But you can get variety packs of the pouches more easily for testing. However if he doesn't like them, then you're in the situation I am where I have a ton of cat food my cats won't eat without extreme coercion. Petco sells singles of a LOT of flavors, so if you have one near you, that might be an option for trying out a few different types without having to buy a whole case of anything.

Their website is so great and details - you can find pictures of all of the foods in addition to GREAT nutrition info. But here's what I know of the textures

• Soulistic (budget arm of Weruva) - pates, usually with some extra juice or broth
• BFF PLAY (Pate Lovers - Aww Yeah!) - pates, slightly higher quality than Soulistic
• BFF Originals - all tuna based, kind of the consistency of spicy tuna sushi (this is Chloe's current favorite)
• BFF OMG (Oh My Gravy) - thick liquid with meat chunks, very wet meal
• Classic - chunks of protein, in broth or gravy
• Cats in the Kitchen - depends on the flavor; can look like Originals or Classics
• Truluxe - looks like Classics to me, we've not tried any of these personally
• Cats in the Kitchen Pates and Classic Pates - these are more gelatinous than what you'd be used to with Friskies pates, and my cat didn't care for them. The PLAY line is closest in texture to Friskies if he likes pates.
• Stews - a lot like BFF OMGs

 

[Lion]

Thank you so much! I have stored all this information in a Word document! I am trying to stay with the Friskies right now as the costs of all of this (as you know) are high. However I still have to get him off the appetite simulant so this is good information to have if that does not go well.

Thank you!

 

[Mocha's_mom]

My vet has said it is okay to stay on it longer than 14 days (I can’t promise that it is, check with your vet.) but Lion has been staying on it while we get him a little more set with the diabetes. It adds a whole other level to the drama when he won’t eat before a shot

I'm surprised Lion can tolerate it! Mirtazapine has always made my cats foam at the mouth. I feel so bad, obviously it tastes terrible. Then we try to feed them and wonder why they wont eat?

 

[Lion]

Hi,

This is an ear cream you rub on the inside of the ear, alternating ears. Each day you clean off yesterdays ear.

 

[Mocha's_mom]

Hi,

This is an ear cream you rub on the inside of the ear, alternating ears. Each day you clean off yesterdays ear.

That's great! I didn't realize it was made into a topical! I'll keep that in mind next time I need it (hopefully I won't tho)

 

[Lion]

@Mocha's_mom - I think it may be the Mirataz has been making his numbers so erratic. I didn't give any this morning and his morning numbers look better so far. I don't know if the its the Mirataz, but I wanted to post this just in case.