Patches 1/13

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yeah we did but we were hesitant because she kept throwing weird numbers every few days. Think I should try it? 1.2 is like 1.25 or 1.5?
 
Whenever you're not sure about an increase, try to do it when you can be home to check mid-cycle.

The spreadsheet appears to support a small increase. If you are using U-100 syringes, increase by 0.2 units. If you are using U-40s, it can help to line up a ruler with millimeter markings against the barrel and use the tick marks as a reference.
 
Each 0.5u on u100 needles is 0.2u of u40 insulin. (or, 1u is 0.4u insulin). So, if you want to dose 1.2u, draw to the 3u mark on u100 needles.
 
ok so looking at hat chart Patches' dose is .4 right now. I draw up to the first mark and since my syringes don't have half marks then it has to be .4 right? My vet was calling that 1 unit, that's why I marked it as that on the ss. So going to 1.2 would triple the dose she is on now.
 
Taintedhalo said:
ok so looking at hat chart Patches' dose is .4 right now. I draw up to the first mark and since my syringes don't have half marks then it has to be .4 right? My vet was calling that 1 unit, that's why I marked it as that on the ss. So going to 1.2 would triple the dose she is on now.
Click to expand...

Whoa....clarification needed. You have been drawing up to the 1 unit mark on the U100 syringes? Your vet has been calling it 1 unit on a U100 syringe?

If you have been doing this, then Patches has only been getting 0.4 units of ProZinc. Maybe this is why her numbers are so high...not enough insulin. And her dose numbers on the ss would be showing the incorrect amount of ProZinc given. We indicate the amount as if it was from a U40 syringe.

To get 1 unit of U40 ProZinc in a U100 syringe, you must draw up to the 2.5 line.
 
Exactly I was confused thinking that what my vet was calling 1 unit was what you guys meant by one unit. But its to the first line on the u-100 syringes without the half marks so it would be .4 from what I am understanding on the chart. Thank God that light bulb finally went off cause I was so confused and now I will have to go back and redo the doses on the chart. Or mark that its U-100 syringe or something.
 
Glad we caught this. :-D
Now Patches should be showing better numbers for you.

I would change the numbers (you don't have too many yet) and then make a note in the comments about what you did and make it "bold".

If you are going to stay with an actual dose on 1 unit, then draw up 2.5 on the U100 syringe. BUT...you might want to "reboot" at 0.75 unit first...which would be a lettle less than 2.0 on the U100.

I asked Sue to check in .... I have to get up for work in a couple hours. She will be able to help you later.

I hope this makes things better for Patches now. cat_pet_icon
 
Sue when you see this here is how the vet told me the dose. She told me to ONLY use u-100 syringes then drew up the dose showing me that it was at the first line. She made a point of showing me that then told me that was 1 unit but now I know that is 1 unit on the syringe not the actual dose because the dose would be .4 of u-40. She has never been above .4 since diagnosis.
 
Whoa! Glad you caught this! I might try 0.75 too just to see how it works. Keep from increasing too much. However, I'd also do whatever Sue says. She's got WAAAYYYYY more experience than me.
 
redoing the ss now. Rachel I am glad too can't believe I didn't "get" it before cause I have seen the chart. For some reason it just didn't click. I agree Sue is awesome. .75 would be an increase almost double what she gets now though wouldn't it?
 
Appreciate the vote of confidence, but this is an area I am not much good for. I never used U100 needles. I have passed the buck and asked BJ to weigh in.

What I don't get is why your vet would give you U100 needles for a U40 insulin and not explain conversions. It's important that we are sure what dose you have been giving before we suggest a change in dose.
 
I have no idea why she did that. The way she acted was like that was the syringe made for it. Even said only use u-100 for this insulin. I only knew there were u-40 syringes after I came on here. Thought ok maybe she didn't like those kind or something. Like I said before she gave me very little information on diabetes a few printed out sheets about the tests and that's about it. Most things I know now are what I am learning on here.
 
I recommend starting at 0.6u (1.5 mark) before jumping to double the dose. Give it a couple days, then increase again if needed. Some cats are fine with big jumps, but some (like Cass) are very sensative to dose changes.
 
The thing that worries me is there is insulin, called BCP PZI - not ProZinc. It is a compounded insulin that does come in U100 strength and you use U100 syringes with it. I am wondering if that confused her OR if she did give you BCP PZI and that's why she stressed the U100 needles.

I suggest you not change anything until you ask your vet in the am whether you are giving U40 or U100 insulin. If it's U40, ask her why she has you using U100 needles.
 
this is what my insulin bottle and box look like http://www.lambertvetsupply.com/product ... MgodHy0AUg and it says u-40 on the vial. I will ask her tomorrow to confirm though and not change anything till then. I would think Patches is probably one of the sensitive ones since she tends to throw weird numbers in on this dose even. Been driving me nuts to try and figure out what may have been different on those under 200 days.
 
Interesting. Under Directions/Dosing it says this:

Recommended dosages only. Always follow the directions for dosing and administration from your veterinarian.

]Use of a syringe other than a U-40 syringe will result in incorrect dosing.
For subcutaneous injection in cats only.

ProZinc insulin should be mixed by gently rolling the vial prior to withdrawing each dose from the vial. Using a U-40 insulin syringe, the injection should be administered subcutaneously on the back of the neck or on the side of the cat.

The initial recommended ProZinc dose is 0.1 - 0.3 IU insulin/pound of body weight (0.2 - 0.7 IU/kg) every 12 hours. The dose should be given concurrently with or right after a meal. The veterinarian should re-evaluate the cat at appropriate intervals and adjust the dose based on both clinical signs and glucose nadirs until adequate glycemic control has been attained. In the effectiveness field study, glycemic control was considered adequate if the glucose nadir from a 9-hour blood glucose curve was between 80 and 150 mg/dL and clinical signs of hyperglycemia such as polyuria, polydipsia, and weight loss were improved.

Further adjustments in the dosage may be necessary with changes in the cat's diet, body weight, or concomitant medication, or if the cat develops concurrent infection, inflammation, neoplasia, or an additional endocrine or other medical disorder.

Storage Conditions: Store in an upright position under refrigeration at 36-46°F (2-8°C). Do not freeze. Protect from light.

i'd share this with your vet.
 
U-# refers to the number of units of insulin in 1 milliliter (mL).
-- U-40 has 40 units per mL
-- U-100 has 100 units per mL

U-# syringes are intended to measure units of insulin for U-# insulin
-- U-40 syringes meaure units for U-40 insulins
-- U-100 syringes meaure units for U-100 insulins

So what happens if you use a syringe marked for a different concentration?
You have to adjust for the concentration! (You knew that fractions and decimals had a use, right?)

To use U-100 syringes for U-40 insulin, the math that makes your conversion chart is
U-100 syringe mark * 0.4 = U-40 dose

0.5 * 0.4 = 0.2 units of U-40
1.0 * 0.4 = 0.4 units of U-40
1.5 * 0.4 = 0.6 units of U-40
2.0 * 0.4 = 0.8 units of U-40

Or each tick mark is 0.2 units and you just count 0.2, 0.4, 0.6, etc
 
I will tell her but to be honest I think she is gonna ignore me. She told me not to be worried about that one antibiotic shot you guys warned me about that it was completely safe but that she only gave it for skin problems. After everything I have read on the internet about that shot I wouldn't let it be given to my cat. She did tell me to roll it between my hands for 30 seconds before drawing up the insulin and to keep it from the light. Ugh I wish there were more vets in my town but only 2 offices in 40 miles and 1 of those has already ripped me off big time so I can't trust her. Added charges on the bill twice for services she didn't do. Can't trust someone that pads the bill to have Patches' best interests at heart.
 
Ok BJ should I up her dose day after tomorrow to .6? She is still giving weird number like just now it was 208 at pmps waiting 20 minutes without feeding and gonna retake to see if she should get a shot tonight. But last few nights were high 200's or in the 300's
 
Hmmmm...that stinks. I wish there was another vet near you. All I can suggest is to just keep insisting. My vet didn't want to test for pancreatitis but I insisted. Just said I'd pay but please do the test for my peace of mind. She agreed though we didn't end up sending it out.

Just keep asking. Read her what it says on the vial and tell her about the conversion chart. I hope you get some answers!!!
 
It seems like we're missing something. It's Diabetes 101 to know that the syringes have to match the insulin unless you convert it. I can't imagine any vet messing that up.
 
I don't know what is going on with the dose but I will ask her tomorrow why that dose and why that syringe.Oh don't worry I am not one to back down if I think a test is needed and will beg a ride to the next town to have it done if I absolutely have to for another vet that will do it. Course that will cost me lots in gas money so I hope its never an issue.
 
Maybe the vet was starting low, going slow.

And yes, go up to 0.6 units.

If you would, edit your previous entries to correct the dose to the actual dose given.
 
Ok she is @ 225 so I am thinking .4 is too much since she can drop quick when she gets that much @ 280 even ,maybe .2? or no shoot cause I won't be able to monitor well tonight. Edited the 1u to .40 that's right isn't it?
 
That's correct
1.0 * 0.4 = 0.4
Or, 2 tick marks * 0.2 = 0.4

(Personaly, I just count tic marks by 0.2, 0.4, 0.6, ... etc)
 
Start a new thread with your new ss (great job resetting it all btw) this am?

So, we all are amazed at the numbers you have been getting at these low doses! Very encouraging and more explainable. (i always think the numbers are more volatile at the low doses as there is less room to drop and to manuver with dosing)

Very interested in what your vet says this am....
 
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