Pancreatitis Treatment

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lmart186

Member Since 2012
M 12 year old male was diagnosed with Pancreatitis in April. I believe he still as it. He is lethargic, lays all the time staring into space, is gettng weaker, and hi bg numbers and higher than normal.

I have changed his diet to raw, given him a B12 shot, and added supplemnts (taurine, L-Caritinine, Milk Thistle, Probiotics). It's only been 3 days since diet change but stil very high bg #s and he feels awful. Barely walking and very weak.

Anyone have experience with diabetes/pancreatitis combo and best way to deal?
 
lmart186 said:
M 12 year old male was diagnosed with Pancreatitis in April. I believe he still as it. He is lethargic, lays all the time staring into space, is gettng weaker, and hi bg numbers and higher than normal.

I have changed his diet to raw, given him a B12 shot, and added supplemnts (taurine, L-Caritinine, Milk Thistle, Probiotics). It's only been 3 days since diet change but stil very high bg #s and he feels awful. Barely walking and very weak.

Anyone have experience with diabetes/pancreatitis combo and best way to deal?
Click to expand...

Many people here have experience with diabetes/pancreatitis, but it would be a good idea if you could provide more info like what insulin you are giving, how often, what dose, and also what BG numbers you got at what times (in relation to the shot times).

If your cat is lethargic and has very high BG numbers, that could be the cause.

I am glad you are giving the B12 shots, and feeding raw with the proper supps is perfect. The not barely walking - how exactly is he walking? Does he have any neuropathy issues?

How were you treating pancreatitis in the past? Normally, you would give subQ fluids, pain meds and nausea meds; are you following that sort of treatment, and if so, what pain and nausea meds are you or were you giving?

If you can reply with a bit of the above info, people can offer you more clear suggestions.
 
He is a 12 year old, 14.5 pound male cat.
He is on PZI Bovine Insulin, bg checked 3X daily, and dosed aprox. every 8 hours.
He was strictly on 9Lives chicken dinner canned, until now - he is now on Rawhealth frozen patties (raw food)
In his 3 years he has never been able to be regulated - numbers range anywhere from 180 - 350s
Lately he is in 380 - 500 range.
When first diagnosed with pancreatitis, he was hospitilized, given IV fluids, anti-acid, antibiotic, and liquid vitamin. That was in April.

Since then at home, I've just been giving him the liquid vitamins and nothing else for pancreatitis. But since he is getting worse, I changed his diet, got the B12 today, gave him oral .05 ml buprenorphine for pain today. Not given nausea med as he is not vomiting and no diarrea. Eats slowly (I add 2 oz water with his food) and walks very slowly and stiffly. Walking less each day...

Dosing Chart:
PZI BOVINE INSULIN
150 or less 0 units
151 - 180 5 units
181 - 200 6 units
201 - 240 7 units
241 - 289 8 units
290 - 349 9 units
350 - 389 10 units
390 - 449 11units
450 - 500 12 units
501 and over 13 units

However, I have been dosing higher the past 2 days, about 2 units more than I would according to this chart.

I hope that helps with the info? Thank you!
 
Hi,
I'm going to see if I can contact a friend, Kim, whose kitty, Kitty, also dealt with many bouts of p-titis. She used Prozinc, and also dosed TID with Kitty. Her user ID is "kse". Hoping she can give you some advice...

Carl
 
lmart186 said:
He is a 12 year old, 14.5 pound male cat.
He is on PZI Bovine Insulin, bg checked 3X daily, and dosed aprox. every 8 hours.
He was strictly on 9Lives chicken dinner canned, until now - he is now on Rawhealth frozen patties (raw food)
In his 3 years he has never been able to be regulated - numbers range anywhere from 180 - 350s
Lately he is in 380 - 500 range.
When first diagnosed with pancreatitis, he was hospitilized, given IV fluids, anti-acid, antibiotic, and liquid vitamin. That was in April.

Since then at home, I've just been giving him the liquid vitamins and nothing else for pancreatitis. But since he is getting worse, I changed his diet, got the B12 today, gave him oral .05 ml buprenorphine for pain today. Not given nausea med as he is not vomiting and no diarrea. Eats slowly (I add 2 oz water with his food) and walks very slowly and stiffly. Walking less each day...

Dosing Chart:
PZI BOVINE INSULIN
150 or less 0 units
151 - 180 5 units
181 - 200 6 units
201 - 240 7 units
241 - 289 8 units
290 - 349 9 units
350 - 389 10 units
390 - 449 11units
450 - 500 12 units
501 and over 13 units

However, I have been dosing higher the past 2 days, about 2 units more than I would according to this chart.

I hope that helps with the info? Thank you!
Click to expand...

OK I can't comment on the insulin you are using as it's not one I have given to my cats.

For the nausea, you don't need to wait till your cat is vomiting; you would have to give shots of famotidine/pepcid then.... think of yourself if you sort of feel like you have an upset stomach and think if you eat, you will hurl.... that's sort of how many cats are feeling, and that's why if you give 1/4 tab of pepcid before shots and the shot meal, you may see your cat feel less nauseous.
The bupe dose you are giving is very small; if he's in pain, I don't think a .05ml dose would do much. You could try to up that dose to maybe closer to .1ml or 10u in a U100 syringe.... not sure how you are giving the bupe though.

Would you be able to provide the BG tests, times, and dose given?
For example,
8am - 250 - shot 8u
4pm - 360 - shot 10u
12am - 349 - shot 9u

can I assume you are using U40 syringes? I am asking as some use U100 syringes with this insulin.

that's alot of insulin, something like you may see in a high dose cat with an insulin resistance condition.
What was your starting dose when first dx, when was he dx, and have you tried lowering his dose to see if he's been getting too much insulin.... I would also wonder if you considered switching to a longer lasting insulin like Levemir? There have been several others who have made such a switch and done much better with the overlap and longer lasting effects.

Would you be able to do a couple curves? Testing every 2 hours just to see how long the insulin is lasting, and do you have any past BG test numbers - I am guessing you did first start giving shots every 12hrs?
 
I just saw this and I am not near a computer, I am using my phone. I want to respond and offer my support concerning the pancreatitis and diabetes. My cat, Kitty, battled this for a year. I will respond Once I get to my computer -- that probably will be in the mornIng. Don't give up Ptitis is tough, but there are things you can do to battle it.
 
I did use bovine PZI, but only shot 2 times a day with Bob. The highest dose I ever gave was 4u though. Are you using some form of the Hodgkin's protocol? The scale you are using, did that come from your vet?

Carl
 
I too have a cat that has pancreatitis and newly diagnosed diabetes. Pancreatitis is a nasty disease all on its own - my cat almost died a few times and like you I had to take him in to get fluids, syringe feed him, etc.

I am fairly new to this board but whenever I see pancreatitis in a cat I feel like I can at least share with you what has worked with my Lucky cat. I also give bup to my cat - I can tell as you when he is feeling bad I give him .1-.15 ml of bup, usually at the first signs of the pancreatitis acting up (when I can tell he is starting to get that Pancreatitis look in his eyes). When he was really sick with severe bouts I think my vet prescribed him with .20. My cat weighs about 12lbs. I agree maybe your cat isn't getting enough bup?
Also, my vet experimented with Viokase powder. She said it was worth a shot when we didn't think my Lucky was going to make it. It is widely used with dogs but back some years ago was considered experimental in cats. I said I didn't have anything to lose and tried it. I sprinkle about 1/4 tsp on his canned food in the AM and again at night- add water and mix it up. My cat definitely would rather NOT have it in the food but it is supposed to help the pancreas digest the food. YOu might want to do some research on this and ask your vet about it. It takes time for the cat to get used to the smell - my cat snubbed it at first and I had to start with a really small amount of powder and go up as he got used to it. And I had to be persistent with it.

Hang in there.. it sounds like you are doing all the right things and with pancreatits it seems you just have to get thru the severe bout. PM me if you want to share any more info. I don't have all the answers but am here to share what has worked for my baby.
Julie
 
I also have a cat who uses PZI and doses every 8 hrs ..... and has suffered from Ptitus. My cat also throws off ketones which sometimes puts her into DKA, so I've walked a fine line too. The most important thing right now is to stabilize ... he needs to eat, he needs to keep it down. He needs the burp in a larger dose and start the anti-nausea meds now, they need time. Feed him a lot of small meals, I would start with meat baby food until he levels off and then feed him one of the FF pate's.

I wouldn't worry at this moment too much about his numbers. When they are sick the numbers go everywhere, but soon you need to play detective and figure out what is not working. I have tried adjusting the dose with a chart and over time, it is a very hard way to do it. Some kitties will always need every 8 hrs. but in time the dose should become constant, it helps with the healing and then they become stronger.
My Payne is a year out from her last DKA and I don't think I will ever go there again, I know how to keep her healthy and see the early signs.

There are many more things, lot's of people will respond. I would also visit the PZI forum to help you get him regulated .... my girl almost died 4X but with the knowledge I learned here and I thank God for the hundreds of people who took their time to say .... "maybe if you tried this it would help, it worked for me."
And especially to a dedicated few! who prodded me along the way :)
Nancy
 
Kim is really the best person to advise you, but as a former ProZinc user w/ a high dose cat, my first instinct is your sliding scale doses are extremely high! Grayson was up to 9 units TID before we switched to Levemir. We did a re-boot from 6 units down to 3 units and then 2 units... and he did just as well on those as he did on teh 6. After that, we started climbing again. I had the tests run for Acro and Insulin Resistance (IAA), both positive, which explained why he wasn't responding to the ProZinc much.

Another thought I have is about the change of food. Did y;ou transition gradually? Or do it cold turkey? It may be that his stomach is sensitive. THere've been several other folks that have changed to raw, and some had problems early on.

I've not had experience w/ P-titus, but because Grayson LIVED in high numbers, ketones were an issue that was ALWAYS on my mind. Have you been checking for ketones in your kitty's urine? Are you familiar w/ the ketone test strips (hold in a stream of urine).

Also, what kinds of numbers have you been getting when you test?

Are you giving sub cutaneous fluids (lactated ringers?)???

OOPs - sorry Nancy... I forgot you'd been there as well... and we must've been posting simultaneously.

Lu-Ann
 
150 or less 0 units
151 - 180 5 units
181 - 200 6 units
201 - 240 7 units
241 - 289 8 units
290 - 349 9 units
350 - 389 10 units
390 - 449 11units
450 - 500 12 units
501 and over 13 units

I am very confused about your dosing schedule. Going from 0 - 5 units if the bg level increases by 30 points is very unusual. We have very few kitties on such high doses unless they have additional complications like acromagely.

We suggest that cats start at one unit, and raise doses by .25 and .5 at the most. We tend to have cats with dosing changes in those ranges also. So if the kitty is getting one unit at 180, at 250 they might get 1.25. You might go over to the PZI forum and look at some of the spreadsheets of cats there.

Please explain more about your dosing schedule, what dose you started with and how it was raised.
 
Hi,

I am also new to the pancreatitis/diabetes combo. My cat, Max, was diagnosed with pancreatitis a few years ago. He was diet controlled with Royal Canin Hypoallergenic dry food for awhile, however, it is probably what triggered his eventual diabetes. He was put on Lantus and I changed his diet to canned Fancy Feast. He was OTJ within one month. Unfortunately, the Fancy Feast was not ideal for his pancreatitis. Max's pancreatitis symptoms include vomitting, lack of appetitie, hiding, and sitting in a "meatloaf" position. During his bad flare-ups he was given fluids, anti-nausea meds, and antibiotics at the vet's office. His bg numbers would also rise during an attack. I went on a mission to find the right combo of meds and food to help both the diabetes and pancreatitis. I found certain foods made the pancreatitis worse. It definitely takes some detective work to find out what foods trigger the pancreatitis. It also takes some time for the change of foods to have an effect as well as the amount of time it took to slowly transition over. Sometimes I would know if the food was O.K. within a couple of days (severe reactions like loss of appetitie, severe vomitting, dark stools), or within a week or two (less severe reactions like occassional vomitting, slower to eat). For Max, he seems to be most sensitive to fat content and certain proteins. He currently gets 1/4 tablet of Pepcid AC 10mg (OTC from the drug store) one hour before each meal (he's fed 2x a day, approx. 12 hours apart). He gets the Pepcid even if he's not acting nauseous. He eats low fat, low carb Weruva chicken and low fat, low carb Fancy Feast Elegant Medly Shredded Chicken. Many people use Fancy Feast Classics as several types have no wheat gluten, however, Max is more sensitive to the fat than wheat gluten. I found a lot of info on ibdkitties.net as well as posts here on this board when I typed "pancreatitis" in the search box.
Good luck! Pancreatitis is no fun.
 
Hi there! My Charlie started on Prozinc, but is now on Levemir. I was tossing around the idea of TID dosing, but I just couldn't do it with timing restrictions. Plus, pz cost a lot more than Lev. Plus we were pretty certain he was acromegalic, and Lev is a really good insulin for acro cats. But we also suspect he has mild p'titis. He hasn't been dx'd, but he does show some of the classic symptoms. I think you should consider increasing the frequency of your pepcid dosing. Many p'titis kitties are 1/4 tablet daily to help keep symptoms at bay. Many p'titis kitties are also on sub-q fluids, as those are considered to be very helpful. We have never tried them before since his flares are very minor and short-lived.

To be dosing so much insulin and getting so little response raises some red flags. Have you ever considered switching to an L insulin? Humans on high doses report that Levemir doesn't sting the was Lantus does, which is why most of the acro kitties are on Lev.
 
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