Pam and Alley 12/30

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pamela and tigger

pamela and tigger

Member Since 2009
Looked at your spreadsheet and saw that you were thinking of raising the dose.

I wonder if the Evo at 7% carbs is too much? Is that the only food he is getting? Maybe you could also try not feeding him after +7 which seems to be 'around' the time of his nadir. I know that some say with these longer acting insulins it isn't as big of a deal, but he is jetting right back up there so quickly. If it were me I would try this before raising the dose yet.

How are you doing on getting your profile done? Sorry to be such a nag! If you are having problems let us know so we can help. :)
 
Thanks for your suggestion. Alley's AMPS and PMPS are at 7:30 Mountain time. He free feeds both times from 6:30 until 12:00 and then I pull his food. He is not eating then again for 6 + hours. The 7% carbs from EVO is per 15 ounce can, so 1 can lasts about 2 days, as I have a civie eating with him, but she is much smaller and eats only at the start of each feed time, whereas Alley likes to graze. I also spread a knife size amount of K-D on top of the food at the original feedings because my vet has scared me into thinking Alley may have a kidney problem. But all his bloodwork and keotones are normal. He also likes the smell better than the EVO and eats more.
I know his numbers are no longer in the greens, but overall, these are the lowest "high" numbers yet. Does that sound strange? I feel he is on the brink with a tiny drop more, but will wait until Sunday to make a decision. Is there a better food choice I could try?
I will work on the profile, no sure I have any additional information though, as Alley has never had any type of health issues until diabetes.
Thank you
 
I would think a 7% carbs wet food would be ok. Most of the Friskies I feed are 6-8%. Some Fancy Feast is 4% (the classic pate, or whatever they call it now). Wellness canned is also lower. I believe 4% and it is grain free, high quality protein.

Do you know about the food lists? Here is a link:
http://binkyspage.tripod.com/canfood.html
That will give you carb amounts for various canned foods.

My opinion on the KD food is that it is that it is "old school" thinking of lower protein/higher carbs, which might help human's with kidney issues, but not cats. They need moisture to help the kidneys function better. However, if Alley's blood work is not showing anything, why worry about it?

OMG, just looked it up on the link I gave you. KD is 27% carbs! I'd stop feeding that ASAP.

Getting back to the moisture idea, I add water to all my cat's food - about 1/3-1/2 as much water as food (1 can food, 1/3 can water). The only two cats that drink additional water are my hyper-t (also causes excessive thirst/peeing) and Jeddie sometimes. Once you have a cat in measurable kidney insufficiency, using distilled water is best (probably its best for all cats), then as things progress, you want to start using sub-Q fluids. But it sounds like Alley is no where near that stage.
 
Alley has always been a drinker, even when he was much younger. He likes to play in the water bowl, and lick it off his paws. His litterbox shows no signs of excessive urine. But I have started using distilled water for all the cats as I read it somewhere here a while back. I also add water to their wet food from your suggestion, it does keep it from drying out especially at night. The amount of K-D is approx 1/2 teaspoon per day. I know the carbs are high, but once the vet told me to switch to only K-D (not gonna happen!) and I started putting a smudge on top of the EVO, he won't eat the EVO alone. I only do this in the morning feeding, not the night, as he is more hungry at night and not so picky.
I am really happy about his numbers as it seems he is settled somewhat but nowhere near low enough yet. This is one stubborn cat. Tried going down on the insulin, wish that would have been the answer, but it seems maybe 1 more drop would do the trick? Do you think the food is the problem? I still have 2 cases of EVO left from when we moved here from Indiana, as I thought maybe I would have a hard time finding it here in Colorado, duh, it's everywhere here.
Thank you for your help. I will not buy any more K-D, two cans left, then that's it.

Pam
 
Pam & Alley said:
He also likes the smell better than the EVO and eats more.
Click to expand...

Have you tried sprinkling parmesan cheese over their food? Works great! Also, if you can get some Fortiflora it works well (and recommended by Dr. Lisa). You just sprinkle a little bit over their food.

http://www.amazon.com/FortiFlora-FELINE ... B00164YL22

Sheila gave you the link to Janet and Binky's canned food chart. There are lots of choices as she mentioned. You maybe can't get a lot of foods locally where you live but you can order most online at petfooddirect.com.

Cats do get tired of the same food all the time. Sometimes a little variety helps. BTW, if I fed Tigger 7% carb food I would notice. But each cat is different.

When trying to find your right dose you need to eliminate as many variables as you can that might be interferring. He may just need more insulin, but again, I would try these things first. We need to get his numbers down. That would help his kidneys more than anything right now.

ETA - just saw your post before I sent this. You may still be able to use the Evo. Just try to eliminate it for a while and see if it makes any difference. If it doesn't make a difference you can still use it mixed with other low carb food so that you don't waste all that you have and so that they have some variety.
 
Wow, never heard about parmesan cheese! That is great. Just took a reading, I think Alley has been listening to me...82 at +6. Thought I was doing well with 7% carbs, but Wellness is 4%? Going to try that for sure and will hold off with the 1 drop adder.
I do have the printout on all the cat food, trying to locate one low in carbs and high is phosph, as the vet was pushing the necessity to only use K-D (gee, she sells K-D at a huge mark-up, think that makes a difference???) No more K-D. Very helpful, just thought 7% was really good, but if it makes a difference on his BG, I am going to try the Wellness. Out to the store before another snowstorm starts!
Much appreciate the help
Pam & Alley
 
Pam, you want low phosph not high (and KD isn't even that low in phosph). Really, you don't have to worry about low phosph until there are "issues" with his blood work. And even then, I have read here about people using phosph binders, but not until there is a significant decrease in renal function.

There is another thing you can sprinkle on their food to make it tasty: Prime Taste Treats Chicken (http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp?productId=4406466) All my cats love these as treats or on their food. There is a cat product (Halo) that is exactly the same, except at least twice as expensive.

Yep, vets make a lot of money off those foods, and I don't blame them for wanting to do that, but the only ones really benefiting from those foods is Hills/Purina bottom line near as I can tell. I actually said that exact thing to someone that worked for a veterinary publication where Hills was one of their "biggest clients" by that, I think she meant biggest advertiser. She got a little perturbed over my comment, which was specifically related to FD. She kept saying to me, for some reason, that FD was not a death sentence and could be managed using the "special" meter at home. This was after I told her I had two FDs, one adopted because he was going to be PTS because of this dx. I told her that most of us couldn't afford that meter or its strips and that a free meter and strips from ebay worked just as well. That also seemed to annoy her. I guess Abbott (they make that meter, right?) is one of there other "biggest clients". Sigh.....
 
Sheila, you are so right! I meant LOW in phosph, not high!

I have discontinued the K-D. Even a little boost in carbs may trigger a higher number.
I tried to go out and buy Wellness (Core, I think, no grains) but the only distributor around my area is the local vet, not my vet, and she was closed until Tuesday. I will order some of the Prime Taste treats chicken, thanks so much for the tip. I also tried to shoot him farther up on the neck, unless it is just a coincidence, seems to have lowered his numbers. Hey, I'll stand on my head and shoot if it will help!

thanks
Pam & alley
 
Pam, you might want to consider ordering Wellness from Pet Food Direct. As long as you take advantage of their promotional discounts (usually someone posts codes on Supply Closet every so often) the price is comparable to what you pay in the store because the website doesn't charge tax.

You may want to get a few cans first from that vet (a vet that sells Wellness, that's remarkable) to see if Alley likes it.
 
I went to www.wellnesspetfood.com to look for retailers in my area, only the vet in town and another vet in Gunnison, CO. carry wellness in my area. Pet food direct would be ideal, but at -21 degress this morning, it would freeze in the truck. They do not package for extreme bitter cold. I am the one that got the previously frozen vial of Lev a month ago! Even the pharmacy has a problem with their supplies! It sure was different living in the Midwest compared to the mountains. As soon as I can, I will take a road trip to Petco, approx 90 miles one way. In the meantime, will make sure Alley likes it.

Thanks for your help
Pam & Alley
 
Pam, was the 82 after he had KD in the morning? Wondering about cause and effect. I see that you have stopped the KD, just not sure when. It will be interesting to see what happens with his BG after a few cycles without the KD.

That's too bad you have to drive so far to get Wellness.

Which Evo are you feeding? Is it canned, yes, it must be because you say "15 oz can..." I can't find a 7% carb canned food on their website. The EVO 95% Chicken & Turkey Canned Cat Food is 1% carbs and the EVO Turkey & Chicken Formula Canned Cat and Kitten Food is 2% carbs. So, I am just wondering.
 
Sheila, the EVO I feed him is Cat & Kitten food, turkey & chicken. The can is 13.2 oz (wrong again!) but I am sure when I started feeding him EVO years ago that it was 15 oz. The sizes always shrink, and the price goes up.
So my 13.2 oz can says "less than 7% carbs". I found the SMALL can of EVO (same stuff) listed on Janet & Binky's site as 0% carbs. You found on their website 2% carbs? SOOOOO, am I adding carbs if I go to Wellness at 4%? Talk about confusing!
So thankful I have help with all of this stuff, Alley has not been red for 5 days, that is a breakthrough for me. Now I am aiming at no more pinks, may take a while, but the pink numbers are at the low end, not the high end. I think today's numbers are a result of me not getting all the insulin in him, it is so hard when I push the barrel and it barely moves. Then when I am done injecting him, I always push it up to see that there is no more insulin in the cylinder, there was a minute part of a drop. So his nurse failed a little today.

Happy New Year!
thank you
Pam & Alley
 
I always hold the plunger in as I withdraw the syringe (stab, inject, hold finger hard on end of plunger, withdraw).

I think you are good with the Evo. The confusing thing about carbs is there is a percentage of ingredients and a percentage of calories (as fed), so the Evo can may be citing as fed percentage, while I am getting the percentage of ingredients from their website. At any rate, I think it is safely low enough. You can certainly try the Wellness and see if there is any difference in his numbers on such a small percentage change. A few cats are that sensitive, but not most of them.
 
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