P - AMPS: 359, +6: 318

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Melissa and P

Melissa and P

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Today was my long day at school, so we're only working on two numbers today; AMPS and +6.

Fed after +6 test, will test at +8 to see if we get a yellow. Increasing to 4u tonight and will monitor closely.

Until then, Momma Bean is taking a nap!



Edited to add:
PMPS: 545
+2: 537
+4: 360
+6: 349
+8: 302
 
I fell asleep before +8, so I didn't get a test. I had DH test at +10 but I should have told him to retest if it looked "off."

+10: 515

Could be a bounce. Could be due to later feeding today. Hmm.
 
Shoot! The only thing that might make sense to me is that he dropped over 100 points between +6 and eight yesterday. If he did the same today, he could have been around 200 at +8 which could have caused the bounce up for pmps?
 
+2: 537 - At least it went down, not up, even with food.

We call ProZinc an in-and-out insulin, correct? Should be in and working at shot time, and done and over at +12? And it's a shorter-acting insulin?
Doing some research and just want to make sure I'm on the right track. Also, I posted in L-Land last night to ask for people who've experienced insulin resistance/high dose cats, and kind of got chided by a user for increasing "too fast". I stuck up for myself without being mean (I hope), but then I got to thinking "Man, I hope I know what I'm talking about."
 
L insulin does suggest waiting longer before increasing. With proZinc usually we think in terms of 3 cycles and increase. But with the numbers you are seeing, I am not so concerned if you don't wait that long.You need to see some drops into lower ranges.

They really are completely different insulins, and there is not a whole lot of room for alternative dosing with the Ls, because they have a pretty strict protocol.
 
Those 500s do look like a bounce, Melissa. That first night with the 500's looked kind of weird since it happened in the middle of the cycle, but looking at tonight's +10, PMPS and +2, that does look like a more typical bounce - higher around a pre-shot. I am also wondering if there was an undocumented lower 200 in the AM cycle around +8. That would be consistent with his last couple days.

In terms of dose, let's see if P clears those 500s and gets some movement tonight. He did clear that last bounce pretty quickly, which is a good thing. I can tell you from experience, those bounces that last a full cycle or two are maddening! :smile: If he did get something in the mid to low 200's during the AM cycle today, I'd suggest holding the 4u for at least maybe 3 cycles just in case he needs to settle a bit before going up.

Downward movement vines headed your way! Let's get with the program P! :-D
 
We definitely got those downward movement vines, Jen! :-D

I wish I would have gotten that +8 today, but this weird sleeping schedule I'm keeping is catching up with me.

We'll see about tonight and tomorrow's numbers, but so far, I'll plan on holding at 4.

bunni9 said:
Looks like he's a champ when it comes to clearing a bounce! :-D
Click to expand...
:-D :-D :-D
 
Melissa and P said:
I wish I would have gotten that +8 today, but this weird sleeping schedule I'm keeping is catching up with me.
Click to expand...

I hear ya there. I've been a night-owl/insomniac since I was a teen, so being up late isn't too big of a deal for me. It does catch up with me when I'm getting 4-5 hrs. for days and days and days. Ugh. I laid down for a short snooze after work tonight, and sweet DH took care of PMPS test and shot without waking me. I woke up 3 hrs. later at 9PM confused as to whether it was morning or night. :? I know lots of folks here set an alarm to catch a PM test once they've settled into a dose a bit better. Might that be an option for you if we can get P headed in the right direction? For me, an alarm wouldn't work. I hit snooze a million times without even being aware of it, and DH would kill me if I did that at midnight or one in the morning every night LOL. Getting more than maybe one mid-cycle test during the day doesn't work for me, so night time is when I get a good idea what Eddie's doing with a dose. :smile:
 
I used to be a night owl too, until I started getting P on a feeding schedule, in anticipation of being put on insulin. I started getting up early and going to bed early. I still consider myself an insomniac because it takes me so long to get to sleep. Just like my nap today...could've gotten 4ish hours of sleep, but only got two because I suck at falling asleep, even if I'm tired. lol It's not staying up late that's the problem, it's only getting a those 4-5 hours and having to get up early and having to go to school.

I used to have a huge problem getting up to an alarm, but I've got that down now. I guess knowing that I have P depending on me makes it easier. I don't know how I would do setting an alarm to get a PM test, once P starts heading in the right direction. I'd be able to wake up and test, but I wouldn't fall back asleep easily. Who knows though, we'll try it out when it's time. And if it doesn't work, then I'll just be a zombie from not sleeping enough because I've gotta do what I've gotta do for my baby. That's what I told myself when I was freaking out about giving P shots before he got on insulin. (HOW can I give him a shot?! He's going to HATE me!!) It was just like, I know I'm going to have to do it, so I'm going to be able to do it.
 
How sweet of DH. My DH is like you...he wakes up and has no clue he's been hitting the snooze for an hour. The snooze button is actually breaking on his alarm!
 
Melissa and P said:
+2: 537 - At least it went down, not up, even with food.

We call ProZinc an in-and-out insulin, correct? Should be in and working at shot time, and done and over at +12? And it's a shorter-acting insulin?
Doing some research and just want to make sure I'm on the right track. Also, I posted in L-Land last night to ask for people who've experienced insulin resistance/high dose cats, and kind of got chided by a user for increasing "too fast". I stuck up for myself without being mean (I hope), but then I got to thinking "Man, I hope I know what I'm talking about."
Click to expand...

Sorry I missed this Melissa. ProZinc has an onset usually somewhere between +2 and +3. So it doesn't hit immediately. If the BG is on the rise due to food, or the previous shot wearing off, or a bounce, you can see it continue to rise to +2 or even +3. I personally like to try to catch a +2 on Eddie if I'm suspicious that he's still rising pretty fast at the time of his pre-shot so I have a better idea of how high his BG is when the ProZinc begins to onset. ProZinc is technically considered a medium or longer lasting insulin. I believe the manufacturer indicates a duration of 10-14 hours. The power of the insulin is usually wearing off around the time of the next shot which is why the "ideal" curve is a smile. Some cats don't get that long of a duration. See Lucian's SS for example, and some get a bit longer duration. You can see on Eddie's SS where he's occasionally had a dose that lasts longer than 14 hours.

You are correct on the in-and-out nature of ProZinc. There's some varying opinions on whether ProZinc requires a time to settle a dose. Some cats do seem to need a little time to settle into a dose. I suspect that has more to do with whatever hormones might be floating in the cat's system at the time a dose change happens than the dose change itself. With lower numbers that are closer to the healthy range, you'd probably want to go a little slower with smaller adjustments, than necessarily when you've got a lot of room to move down.
 
You ladies are getting so good at this! Impressive. You'd be surprised (or maybe not) how many beans will not read anything on the site other than the posts to their thread....

Jen, you are exactly right. PZI is an interesting, but I think challenging, insulin because it is truly an ECID insulin. Sometimes in and out - sometimes cats have longer cycles. Sometimes 8 hours like Lucian, sometimes 12+ hours. Yes, all those other factors enter in (food, activity, illness etc) but I also think it works a little differently in every cat. One of the reasons any kind of a protocol was so hard for us to write. The L insulins seem to be more predictable on most cats.

Look at Autumn this am. Her N is definitely an 8-10 hour insulin, in every cat I have ever seen. For Autumn last cycle, she is 49 at +24. Definitely something besides insulin or something in her makeup that is wildly different.

Melissa, little lower last night and no bounce this am. Let's see how it goes today. One thing ProZinc used to do that I seldom ever see anymore is that if you'd keep increasing the dose,eventually the cat would crash - down to double digits for a nadir. Haven't seen that in a long time. Now it seems to be a more gradual change down. But always have that in the back of my nervous mind which is one of the many reasons I tend to be a little conservative.
 
As always, thanks for the clarification, Jen. :smile:

Sue, I completely understand being conservative. I'm just so ready to get out of these high numbers, away from the renal threshold, but not so much that I want him to go too low, too fast. So I'd say I'm conservative with a hint of anxious anticipation.
 
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