OZZIE - LATEST DATA AND VET DOSES

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lauren77

Member Since 2010
Hi all - the latest regarding Ozzie is he's holding is own and eating and finally drinking water by himself. Got a little worried there about his fluid intake, even though I souped up his ff plates of food three times a day.
I stayed up all night b/c after the vet recommended 1/2 a unit I thought it was important to get the data and watch the little guy's condition.
6:45pm - 401bg
then after the shot only 1/2 a unit of lantus
12am 407
2am 418
3am - I didn't test but he went to the bathroom and I put the duo strip under him - neg ketones - 500/dark green color/1/2 it says
Let him rest for 3 hours and at 6:30 - he was 448
Shot him an hour later as per vet the night before 2.50 units and gave him FF gourmet grill w/ water
9:30am 380bg
11:45am 325bg ---
12:15pm --- fed him 1 can of ff oceanfish w/ water
2:00pm 383 went up again!

spoke to the vet at lunchtime - the regular vet in ER who brought him thru this and he said that he wants the number of the 6pm test to determine his dose. He thinks that he may have been on too much at 3.50 units and the mild case of pancreatitis could have caused his body not to use the insulin correctly. He is thinking 1 unit tonight if he is 350 and over at 6pm. So maybe 1 1/2 in the am and then 1 1/2 in the PM....I don't know whether that is enough - every vet that ever meets him, says what a big guy he is - his musculature - he is usually 14 lbs but now down to 13+ after this bout of DKA. How does he go from a healthy, no problem at 3.50 units twice a day to ketones stage from the mild inflammation from pancreatitis is that possible this has caused all of this.
He says he needs to be on baytril and as I put in the earlier post the liquid as I said last nite he was gagging on, me too it was vile and so I have to run out to his local vet = he will be his local vet until we leave Brooklyn and get the tablet form of it.
The testing is hard - easier for his paw. I mutilate his ears b/c first they aren't used to it and I keep missing the "sweet spot" and so three pokes and I use that word w/ liberty more like stabbing him, 3 pokes is the limit. I swear it's just hard - I warm up his little ears and think okay - put a little pressure on the spot and then poke him, I get a little drop, keep trying and either he winces or moves or it runs a little and his hair catches it so off to the poking I go again. So after numerous tries I just head down to his paw. I have to squeeze that to and I hear him sigh and then his tail starts whacking back and forth on the chair - so now we're in trouble and he's had enough and he's telling me so!
But right now I have to be grateful I'm getting it eventually from his paws.
The vet said today he is a tricky guy now so getting the units sorted quickly is kinda of important but I just am thinking once I go back to working - right now I am interviewing so I can happily do this --- how do you guys do it and hold down your jobs and take care of your families and your other pets? HOW?
Sienne and the experts mentioned the same dose at am and pm and I asked the vet about this - he said this is true and ideal but b/c he's a tricky guy at present to try and get the overall dose for a 24 hour period minus all possible variables is their goal. Then once he gets those low numbers the 200's and late 100's then we're looking at the right dose.

Thank you so much for all your wonderful advice and words of encouragement and the help you have sent via DCIN and Venita, I am so grateful and Ozzie sends a big kiss and hug to all you wonderful people.
I am going on now to try and sort out the ss - b/c I know it's easier to follow the data on those - just w/ phone interviews, looking online, pc running slow etc...well you guys know what it's like...BLOODY HARD IS WHAT IT IS...but the alternative is my little Ozzie could die without carrying on with this and I couldn't live w/ myself if that happened...

love and kind regards to all - Lauren and Ozzie
 
Lauren:

What brand of Ketostix are you using? The ones that I have (they are Bayer Ketostix), the lowest readings for ketones are a flesh color/slightly pink. You don't want to see more than a trace amount of ketones present. Are you sure you don't have strips that test for urinary glucose? Those test green for glucose. Take a look at this page and the color coding.

If you can get your test results into a spreadsheet it will help you and help us. (I know -- I sound like a broken record but it is really very helpful.)
 
Sienne, I think that Lauren is using glucose sticks that also can detect ketones. I bought one for my Ultra touch. I remember that the green was for bg

Pattie
 
Thanx Sienne --- I just popped off to see that chart. He was 250/1/4 on the glucose and at 3am he was higher 500/1/2 so reading that it's not his BG when he urinates so it's less accurate than a blood bg "prick". I am using Bayer and the ketones thank god are showing neg...
SS - omg it's like rocket science trying to figure that out LOL....I'll try again when I get back from the local vet picking up the tablet form of baytril....many, many thanks for your superb help, you're wonderful!
 
Hi Celi and Patti -


How are you guys and your babies doing? I'm just popping out to the vets to pick up the script...back later on tonite !
 
Don't use the sticks for urinary glucose. It's not "to the minute" since it takes a while for there to be enough urine for a cat to feel the urge to empty his bladder. Also, urinary ketone measurement is inaccurate for low numbers.

I'd just use the sticks for the purpose of ketone measurement.

Also, you may want to see if you can find some allergy formula Pill Pockets. The allergy formula is diabetes friendly (no corn syrup) and they will mask any nasty smell from the pills. I've found them at Petco but you may want to call around. If they don't have the cat sized Pill Pocket, the dog version is the same -- just bigger. You can break off as much as you need to encase the Baytril.
 
Lauren, I've got a blank spreadsheet set up in Excel (.xlsx format), and would be happy to email a copy to you. It's quite easy to upload to Google documents and updating is a breeze once you get it uploaded.
 
Sienne and Gabby said:
Please do not use an Excel spreadsheet. Not everyone here uses Excel. Please use the Google docs template.

It converts to a Google doc when uploaded. I've not have anyone say there are problems with seeing Boo's.
 
Lauren:

One thing about what you wrote: we don't determine doses by the PS number; we look primarily at the nadir with only some consideration to the PS so it's not a good idea that your vet doses on PS.
We also never hop the dose around like that. We start at a dose calculate by weight (generally) and then follow the protocol on increases.

If you can get the SS up and running, we have lots of experienced folks who can do a great job helping you with the dose.
 
Just wanted to stop by and say hello. You are doing great! Tarragon had acute pancreatitis in Sept. He was fine one day and I found him unconscious the next. His BG never went higher than the 200's and he ended up with DKA from the pancreatitis. Three days in the hospital with fluids and is back to normal again. He went from 11 pounds to 9 in a matter of days. This board kept me together and was the only way we got through it. I know how scary it it but you are doing a wonderful job.

There are a lot of us who work and still manage. I an away for about 10 hours during the day. I just test a lot at night and on the weekends. You will get a routine and learn what direction Ozzie is headed by pre shot numbers and +2 numbers. That will enable you to use food to steer him. It sounds overwhelming now I know. We have all been there so ask lots of questions or just vent. There is always someone here for you.

Have a great night!!
 
Well I am trying this SS business and do I go into a live one and input my data or start another one so the colors show up?
The latest is I spoke to the vet before I shot this evening.
His numbers were high all day and as of yet has not had a bowel movement plenty of urine though - neg ketones/and I know that the glucose is not up to the min like a blood bg test is.
2pm 383
5:10pm 442
8:30pm 401 so it's coming down I guess

Spoke to vet said to shoot 1 1/2 -but tonight he's mooching around for food and his eyes red and sticky a little and I'm wondering if those numbers where he dropped really low is b/c he didn't get a whole load of food in the hospital and now he's back home on his regular schedule he's needing more than 1/1/2 each shot.

Sorry stopped writing this - he just had his bm - hurray!! so at least the worry has gone there...
Does anyone think that 1.5 units am and pm is enough in their opinion given that he got ketones b/c of not getting enough insulin. HOpe this makes some sense...it's so hard, hard hard to know. Last year I picked him up from his DKA of 1-1/2 units and they said 3 units for his size and conditon. Albeit that was 7 kitty years ago but I never had trouble like this. I tested once a day and did the strips for a couple of weeks till he turned the corner...I know he has pancreatitis but is this dose too low - he is jumping up on the counter again looking for food and that were the symptoms before his DKA crisis and before his DX of diabetes...
Will continue to test thru the evening and early morn but I call the vet at 7.00 before I shoot and depending on the nos I shoot what he tells me...is it enough does anyone think?

MT to you all I'm flying blindly but thank god I have this board to refer to...will ask the relevant q's tomorrow in AM but am worried as a few ppl on here said - we don't want to head back to ketones b/c of the wrong dosage...
 
Good luck with the dosing. I agree with Marje, we don't keep changing the dose using the pre-shot BGs. Lantus likes consistency. I hope you were able to find the ketostix? When the BG is high they are hungry as the numbers stabilize his food needs will decrease.
 
lauren77 said:
Well I am trying this SS business and do I go into a live one and input my data or start another one so the colors show up?
Did someone assist you with the ss?

Speaking for myself, I can't make a dosing recommendation without seeing all the data on the ss. It would be irresponsible of me to do so.

Help us help you -
 
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