our kitty Zoe

Status
Not open for further replies.
I created a SS for Zoe's numbers and you can see the link below my name. I plugged in all the data you have posted in this thread. If you have any numbers other than what you have posted, just let me know and I can add them. As you post more, I'll update it. Eventually you could do this yourself, but for now, I have no problem keeping up with it.

Carl
 
Carl - can you email me the excel sheet you are using and I'll pop Zoe's numbers into it as we test???
Thanks, Jennie
 
Jennie
yes, i'll email it to you after work tonite.
carl
 
Just to make sure I am reading her SS right--did you shoot a 61 on Saturday evening and then not test afterward? That seems really low to me but maybe you are getting advice from others, and I am certainly not qualified to give it. I just wanted to bring that up and bump this in case anyone more experienced has input. You are starting to get lower numbers so it seems to me (again, I'm not trying to tell you what to do) that I typically see people testing much more if cats' numbers are low, and maybe not shooting depending on the #. Hypos are potentially extremely dangerous.
 
Great point, Jennifer. There were a couple of low preshots (two nights in a row, the green and the blue numbers) that would be considered "low" to shoot a dose on. Not saying that you wouldn't shoot lower numbers, but normally you would want to make sure of a couple of things.
1 - try to make sure that the number is on the way up before giving the shot. You can stall for 15-30 minutes without feeding, and then test again to see if the number is rising.
2 - If you do shoot a low number (like below 200), do your best to get another test by +2 hours after the shot, to see if the number has gone even lower. That way if you see her number dropping, you can intervene by feeding a bit, or if it's really low you can use karo syrup to boost it up quickly. The danger with shooting low numbers is that the cat can become hypoglycemic, which can be harmful or deadly if it isn't caught in time.

Please try to get tests in between shots when possible, especially if you see low numbers at shot time. It's those mid-cycle numbers that determine if the dose is too high, too low, or just right.

Carl
 
I came here to check back in, and am seeing a couple more shots given at lower preshot numbers with no midcycle tests to follow up. Carl had some advice regarding this in the previous post, so I am just bumping the thread in the hope that you will see his advice.

Hypoglycemia incidents are potentially deadly, and I don't want anyone to ever go through the pain of losing their cat in that way, so that is why I am being a bit of a pest about this to make sure that you are at least aware of the issue and the possible dangers.

ETA: These are recent shots, so I know it's possible you have more test numbers that aren't in the spreadsheet yet.
 
Yes, please get some tests in between shots, so you can see if Zoe's BG is going too low from the shots you have been giving with those low preshot test number. Her dose may need adjusting, but you can't know that without tests "in the middle", and shooting insulin on those lower numbers can be dangerous.

Carl
 
just now
313
7h
164
12h
579
12h
120
8h
497
7h
94


a quick update. the chart should be uptodate. i am not keeping track of the records the miss's is. i will get her to post the updates here as well.
 
Nice to see you posting !
The higher number this morning is due to Zoe not getting a shot with that low number last night. You did the right thing skipping that shot.
We could all be more helpful if you can help us. We need to know what the insulin is doing in between shots.
Please try to test her at +6 hours after her morning shot for several days in a row. It is impossible to know if the dose is right without some tests in the middle of Zoe's shots.

Carl
 
I am thinking you guys have probably been consulting with your vet and other folks here and discussed a dosing strategy? I just ask because to me I would still be super leery of shooting her normal dose into some of these preshot numbers and not getting any midcycle tests. I know work schedules and stuff can make this very difficult, and I know she has done fine so far, but hypos are so serious and can happen at any time, without warning--including if she starts getting better and needing dose decreases. The preshot number is just a snapshot in time and may not give you enough warning if she is going to get too low.

I'm assuming you guys have a plan that you are working though. This is only my 2 cents. I'm sorry to nag but it worries me. I think it is important not to get complacent about shooting insulin just because it has been OK so far. I have only been on the boards since last August and in that time frame several cats here (that I know of) have died after going hypo. It's horrible and I wouldn't wish that on any pet or pet owner.

How is Zoe feeling? The numbers that you do have are looking like an improvement so I bet she is feeling better. :-D
 
My powder was on dry food his entire life and when he became diabetic in january 2012 I too was confused about the whole food issue. I got on this site and followed the advise of the people on here. I started home testing, switched his food to fancy feast classics and within 1.5 months he was OTJ. I cannot tell you how grateful I am. It is very overwhelming at first but if you can start doing the right things early on there is a good chance you can get your baby into remission. I definitely say, stop the dry food! It may be difficult at first but she will adapt. Hang in there!
 
My darling Zoe's number still are up and down, although not the amount they were.
6/14pm 106
6/15 am 92
6/15 pm 353
6/16 am 208
confused_cat
 
Caryn and Powder said:
My powder was on dry food his entire life and when he became diabetic in january 2012 I too was confused about the whole food issue. I got on this site and followed the advise of the people on here. I started home testing, switched his food to fancy feast classics and within 1.5 months he was OTJ. I cannot tell you how grateful I am. It is very overwhelming at first but if you can start doing the right things early on there is a good chance you can get your baby into remission. I definitely say, stop the dry food! It may be difficult at first but she will adapt. Hang in there!



We did stop the dry food. She likes it much better :mrgreen:
 
saimasmom said:
I am thinking you guys have probably been consulting with your vet and other folks here and discussed a dosing strategy? I just ask because to me I would still be super leery of shooting her normal dose into some of these preshot numbers and not getting any midcycle tests. I know work schedules and stuff can make this very difficult, and I know she has done fine so far, but hypos are so serious and can happen at any time, without warning--including if she starts getting better and needing dose decreases. The preshot number is just a snapshot in time and may not give you enough warning if she is going to get too low.

I'm assuming you guys have a plan that you are working though. This is only my 2 cents. I'm sorry to nag but it worries me. I think it is important not to get complacent about shooting insulin just because it has been OK so far. I have only been on the boards since last August and in that time frame several cats here (that I know of) have died after going hypo. It's horrible and I wouldn't wish that on any pet or pet owner.

How is Zoe feeling? The numbers that you do have are looking like an improvement so I bet she is feeling better. :-D

She seems to be doing better & some of the muscle in her hind legs seems to be working better. She was able to jump up (and hog) my computer desk chair.
 
Can you please try to get some tests in between her shots? We can't really give you an explanation for the numbers without knowing more information. If you could try to get at least one test 4-6 hours after every shot, that would help us see the full picture of how the insulin is working.

What I feel is that she may be getting too much, shooting a full dose at 92 could have made her hypo, which in turn would raise her blood glucose significantly for a few days. Can't say without mid-cycle tests. confused_cat
 
Ry,
There are a few mid-cycle numbers on Zoe's SS, which you can see in my sig.
I would love someone to help me make any sense out of Zoe's numbers...

Carl
 
ya her numbers go up and then drop. i have no freaking idea whats going on. i was just checking in to see how the wife was doing with posting here and i see..... ya nothing. ok so zoe numbers go from 300+ down to under 100 often. she is not eating as much as she was so she is nibbling all day night. as far as i know she is keeping the log numbers up to date i will check that as well next.
 
I feel like to really figure this out, you're probably going to need more data. Do you have a day off from work at any point in the week where you could do a curve (a test every 2 hours for 12 hours)? Or, could you try to set an alarm at night (or in the day if you work nights) and grab a quick test in the middle of each nighttime cycle for several days in a row? (Obviously, if someone is home during the day, it would be easier to grab the midcycle tests then... just depends on what works for you.) This would tell you if she is going low, or at least hopefully show you more of the pattern. My 2 cents.

I'm glad Zoe is feeling better!
 
Zoe's Mom,
First off, I have to say that Zoe's numbers lately are very, very encouraging! There are dozens (at least) of people here who after seeing those numbers would switch places with you in an instant! Thanks for getting some mid-cycle numbers lately too, because those are extremely helpful when trying to figure things out.
Any tests that you can get between shots is great data to have.

I'll post more later tonight,
Carl
 
I want to echo (loudly) what others are saying about the amount you're testing.

Lantus is a long-acting insulin. Dosing is based on the nadir -- or the lowest point of the cycle -- not on your pre-shot tests. To use Lantus safely and effectively, you need more information than just the pre-shot test. You need to know when Lantus onset begins, when the nadir occurs (because it's not always at +6), and how much duration you are getting. Typically, this means you need to get a curve. At the absolute minimum, you need to get at least one test during BOTH the AM and PM cycles.

Right now, you don't have any idea how low Zoe's numbers are going. This is particularly concerning over the PM cycle since many cats experience lower numbers at night. If you can get tests at random times -- when you come home, before you go to sleep at night, before you leave the house -- it will help to fill out the gaps and give everyone more information so they can give you better help.
 
looking good here!!! :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen:

since you've recently had to skip shots, how about reducing the dose to 0.5 unit?

hopefully, reducing the dose to a half unit every 12 hours will allow you to shoot zoe every 12 hours.

in addition to testing zoe's blood sugar at shot times, are you able to test about six hours after giving the morning shot and once right before you go to bed every night?

what do you think? do-able? :mrgreen:
 
Whoa... 40! :shock: That is crazy. Slow down there, Miss Zoe!

What do you guys think about Jill's advice to cut the dose? I am going to assume people would still advise you never to shoot a 40, but it looks like her numbers are going down in general, and that means caution (both in terms of dose and getting as many tests as you can) is probably warranted. I also think I have heard (although I could be wrong, and hoping someone else will chime in here) that Lantus works best on a consistent dose. So maybe 0.5u all the time would be better than adjusting based on the preshot? You would still have to get midcycle tests to make sure she is not going too low.

By the way, do you guys have any questions about what you need to do if she goes into low numbers during a cycle? Again hypos are very dangerous so it's good to be prepared. I am not experienced with handling hypos myself, but many people here are.

The additional testing data is cool. Hoping others will be able to lend expertise based on this. :mrgreen:
 
MyprettyZoe said:
6/26 AM 218
6/26 PM 128
6/27 AM 246
6/27 1:30p 91
6/27 PM 40
6/28 AM 322

hi jennie! thank you for posting more numbers. zoe is doing very well! however, i am very concerned about her dose. she's getting too much insulin.

please drop the dose to 0.5 unit (a half unit) even if the preshot number is high. a little bit of lantus is powerful enough to pull down numbers from the 300s.

since you've recently had to skip shots, please reduce the dose to 0.5 unit.

hopefully, reducing the dose to a half unit every 12 hours will allow you to shoot zoe every 12 hours.

in addition to testing zoe's blood sugar at shot times, are you able to test about six hours after giving the morning shot and once right before you go to bed every night?

what do you think? do-able? :mrgreen:


Be prepared:
(you can click on the links typed in blue below)
HYPO TOOLBOX
LIST OF HYPO SYMPTOMS
TREATING HYPOGLYCEMIA


DON'T PANIC! or HOW TO HANDLE LOW NUMBERS
First, try to not panic. Post to the Lantus Insulin Support Group or on the Health Board. Make sure your subject line indicates you are concerned about a possible hypo and/or add the 911 icon to the first post in your condo. People who are experienced in dealing with low numbers will be there to help. After posting, remember to refresh your browser periodically to see if people have replied.

It’s important to recognize that just because your cat may be experiencing low BG numbers doesn’t mean that your kitty is critically hypoglycemic. Many cats will have low numbers and never have symptoms. It’s important, though, to bring those numbers up into a safe range. ALWAYS make sure you have a stock of test strips, high carb (HC) canned food that contains gravy and is over 15% carb such as Fancy Feast grilled, marinated, or Gravy Lovers varieties (see Janet & Binky's Food Chart for a full list of options), and/or a simple sugar solution such as Karo/corn syrup, honey, maple syrup, etc.

If your cat is experiencing symptoms, especially if those symptoms are severe, you need to rub Karo syrup, honey, or maple syrup on the gums or, if symptoms are very severe, administer rectally and get your cat to the nearest 24-hour emergency facility. Take the bottle of syrup with you to administer on the way if necessary. (Note that it is rare that we see episodes of symptomatic hypoglycemia with Lantus and even rarer to see severe symptoms. But, you need to know what to do should they occur.)

The symptoms to be concerned about include but are not limited to:
  • staggering, uncoordinated movements, 'drunken' walk, wobbling, balance problems
  • ataxia - usually lack of muscular coordination, but maybe changes in head and neck movements
  • disorientation (yowling, walking in circles, etc.)
  • twitching
  • stupor
  • convulsions or seizures
  • coma
If your cat is testing in low numbers and you are not getting a quick response to your post, there are several things you need to do. (Low numbers are under 50mg/dL or 2.8 mmol/L.)

  • Depending on how carbohydrate sensitive your cat is, feed approximately a teaspoon or less of food with high carb (HC) gravy or HC food only. (If you have a cat with GI issues, using syrup plus LC food is an alternative.)
  • Test again in 15 – 20 min. Depending on the numbers, give more HC food.
  • Repeat the above steps every 15 – 20 min. until your cat tests in the 50 mg/dL (2.8 mmol/L) or above range for 2 consecutive tests. Continue to feed in small amounts to keep numbers in a safe range.
  • Test in 30 - 40 min. and repeat the test and feed process until there are 2 consecutive tests where numbers are stable or rising.
  • Test in an hour and follow the same steps.
DO NOT become complacent. If number have risen after one or two tests, it’s important to continue testing. Numbers may bobble up and down as the HC food and/or Karo wear off. DO NOT get one test where your cat has risen from low numbers into the 50s and go to sleep or leave the house. You are putting your cat in a risky situation. When in doubt, leave HC food out.

In the case of an accidental overdose or should there be symptoms of hypoglycemia, even if you have caught this in the early stages, you may need to monitor for literally 16 or more hours. Lantus and Levemir are long acting types of insulin. This means if your cat is over dose, you will need to stay alert for hours in order to closely monitor and to keep your cat safe.

Please post your numbers. Those people who are helping you will not abandon you. In fact, they are staying up with you. The experienced people will even work in shifts to make sure your cat is safe and you have the support you need. Remember to refresh your browser to see new posts and keep posting so we know all is well.

~ written by Sienne and Gabby
 
6/28 pm 117
6/29 am 64
6/29 11am 66
6/29 1:22pm 80 :mrgreen:
6/29 PM 63
6/30 am 107
6/30 pm 151
7/1 am 223
 
Wow, those are very nice numbers, and all on 1u doses at shot times. And you've been able to get some mid-cycle daytime tests too!

Anyone looking at the SS (in my sig)... does the 290 look like a bounce maybe? Would you stick with 1u, or maybe a little less?

Carl
 
Hi Jennie,
I know it's instinctive to want to adjust the dose based on the number you see at shot time, but try to stick with the .5 for a few days. And if at all possible, each day get an additional test at +6 during that period. We should be able to determine a pattern from that. Her numbers are good ones, and you're doing well with her!

Also, you can tell a great deal just from observation. Is she eating well, drinking less, peeing less compared to when she was first diagnosed? Is she pretty active and generally look like she feels better?

Carl
 
7/3 am 343
7/3 PM 194
7/4 AM 293
7/4 PM 112
7/5 AM 107
7/5 PM 197
7/6 AM 106
7/6 11am 114
7/6 PM 172
7/7 am 132
7/7 pm 78
 
She isn't drinking as much & her kitty box isn't as full each morning. I think she's using her hind legs better (Al doesn't). She's feeling better, although a little freaked when my 1 yr. old neice started crying. (not a normal sound in our house) :mrgreen:

Carl & Bob in SC said:
Hi Jennie,
I know it's instinctive to want to adjust the dose based on the number you see at shot time, but try to stick with the .5 for a few days. And if at all possible, each day get an additional test at +6 during that period. We should be able to determine a pattern from that. Her numbers are good ones, and you're doing well with her!

Also, you can tell a great deal just from observation. Is she eating well, drinking less, peeing less compared to when she was first diagnosed? Is she pretty active and generally look like she feels better?

Carl
 
Hi Jennie

Good report, and great looking numbers! PLEASE see if you can get some daytime or nighttime test in the +5, +6, or +7 time frame? It could be that the current dose of .5 is exactly right. But it could also be that it needs to be just a little higher or lower. But it's impossible to know without those extra tests exactly which way to go.

You two are doing a great job with Zoe!

Carl
 
7/12 PM 107
7/13 AM 84
7/13 PM 225
7/14 AM 212
7/14 PM 301
7/14 PM 225
7/15 AM 212
7/15 PM 108
7/16 AM 181
7/16 PM 84
7/17 AM 53
7/17 PM 121
7/18 AM 220
 
7/18 pm 125
7/19 am 86
7/19 pm 83
7/19 2hrs. l8tr 133
7/20 am 136
7/20 pm 94
7/21 am 68
7/21 pm 219
7/22 am 57
7/22 pm 113
7/23 am 129
7/23 pm 100
7/24 am 75
7/24 pm 191
7/25 am 48
7/25 pm 144
7/26 am 131
7/26 pm 120
7/27 am 56
7/27 pm 94
 
Hi Jeannie,
Wow, what beautiful numbers Zoe is showing you! And I see that you have skipped shots when the numbers were low, and she hasn't climbed back up to higher numbers afterwards.
I'm wondering if you would like to try something different?
The next time she needs a shot, can you eyeball a lower dose? I know it's hard to see even .5 in the syringe, but do you think you could do half of that and give her .25? I really think there's a good chance that she may not need insulin too much longer.
Carl
 
7/28 PM 61
7/29 AM 172
7/29 PM 150
7/30 AM 65
7/30 PM 74
7/31 AM 175
7/31 PM 115
8/1 AM 53
8/1 PM 167
8/2 AM 79
8/2 PM 213
8/3 AM 90
8/3 PM 62
8/4 AM 151
8/4 PM 75
8/5 AM 142
8/5 PM 152
8/6 AM 181
 
8/7/2012 109 0.25 69 0.25
8/8/2012 115 0.50 116 0.50
8/9/2012 63 0.25 139 0.50
8/10/2012 164 0.25 217 0.50
8/11/2012 42 0.25
8/12/2012 124
8/13/2012 124 0.50 107 0.50
8/14/2012 43 0.25 166 0.50
8/15/2012 68 0.00
8/16/2012 43 0.00 102 0.25
8/17/2012 42 0.00 134 0.25
8/18/2012 50 0.00 100 0.00
8/19/2012 42 0.00 102 0.00
8/20/2012 126 0.25 105 0.00
8/21/2012 68 0.00 100 0.00
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top