OTJ trial have some questions

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JenaThompson

JenaThompson

Member Since 2020
So yesterday opi started out at 51 for his amps fed him and then gave insulin a hour later(prob shouldn’t have) so he had no shot last night or this morning. His amps were 135 this morning and 90 at +4. I have no experience with the OTJ trial so wondering if the start of it is looking good and how many days with no insulin is considered in remission. We have come a long way since Jan with his numbers starting in the 700s at the vet and they basically told me we would never get to this point so I don’t want to screw it up for him.
 
Hi Jena,

JenaThompson said:
We have come a long way since Jan with his numbers starting in the 700s at the vet and they basically told me we would never get to this point so I don’t want to screw it up for him.
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Wow! What a difference when you changed Opi from Vetsulin to Prozinc!! Great response. What a great job you're doing! :cool:

jt and trouble (GA) said:
it does look like he will need a little help (insulin) to get down to the greens.
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I agree with Jeanne here. Helping a kitty to spend sufficient time in green numbers tends to lead to a stronger remission. That said, because I've not used Prozinc I can't help with that side of things.

By way of anecdote, we did have a kitty here a few years ago who was on the Prozinc trial run by the Royal Veterinary College. He was in similar numbers to Opi and after suspension of insulin treatment he drifted down into green numbers by himself over a short period.

The goal for an OTJ trial is to see the kitty in mostly green numbers, perhaps with some very low blues for a period of 14 days without insulin. Assuming the trial is a success the cat is then considered a diet-controlled feline diabetic.

JenaThompson said:
That’s what I was wondering but he hit 90 at +4 today without any insulin
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Points to some pancreatic activity alright.


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Afterword: I drafted this post ages ago and I must have hit the FH forum link instead of hitting 'Post Reply'. Sorry! :oops:


Mogs
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Critter Mom said:
Hi Jena,


Wow! What a difference when you changed Opi from Vetsulin to Prozinc!! Great response. What a great job you're doing! :cool:


I agree with Jeanne here. Helping a kitty to spend sufficient time in green numbers tends to lead to a stronger remission. That said, because I've not used Prozinc I can't help with that side of things.

By way of anecdote, we did have a kitty here a few years ago who was on the Prozinc trial run by the Royal Veterinary College. He was in similar numbers to Opi and after suspension of insulin treatment he drifted down into green numbers by himself over a short period.

The goal for an OTJ trial is to see the kitty in mostly green numbers, perhaps with some very low blues for a period of 14 days without insulin. Assuming the trial is a success the cat is then considered a diet-controlled feline diabetic.


Points to some pancreatic activity alright.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------

Afterword: I drafted this post ages ago and I must have hit the FH forum link instead of hitting 'Post Reply'. Sorry! :oops:


Mogs
.
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Yes prozinc made a huge difference for us. I’m so happy to see him have even blue numbers. Vet was very certain we would never get to this point. So glad I found this site it has been a life changer for both him and I.
 
Cats on Prozinc, have a hard time getting down to the green BG ranges once they are on such a tiny dose. Like the 0.1U you are giving Opi.

The only other thing you can try, is drop dosing. Literally 1 drop of insulin, and it takes practice with some colored water to get that single drop.
Or you can continue with the OTJ trial and stop giving Opitimus insulin for a few more cycles and see if he brings his BG numbers down himself. Maybe 4-5 days more, to see if his BG numbers trend lower than the blues you are getting at pre-shot?

His pancreas must be putting out some insulin on it's own, or you wouldn't be seeing all those blues that you are seeing. And you would not have seen that green at +4 with no insulin given. Food increases the BG levels and insulin brings them down. So about 3-4 hours after the pre-shot test (or what was your pre-shot test) is when the food is digested and you should either see better numbers or they are going up.

I wouldn't have given Opi ANY insulin on the pre-shot test of 51 on 10/19/20.
You are doing exactly what you need to do, by testing at +3 to +4 when you get a blue pre-shot on an OTJ trial.

Here are the generic OTJ instructions I have saved many years ago. Ignore the parts about the insulins you aren't using, and the insulin depot. Prozinc does not have a depot.


OTJ Trial Guidelines (These are the criteria we use when following an OTJ Trial.)

Here are the instructions for an OTJ trial: If on Lantus or Levimir, depot has to drain first before trial starts, about 3 days or 6 cycles. No depot with in and out type insulins (NPH, Vetsulin/Caninsulin, Prozinc). The trial starts when numbers are in the range of a healthy cat (50 - 80 mg/dL), but under 100 overall... with only occasional readings in the 100 - 120 range. Start the trial on the next green pre shot.

If you are posting in the Lantus/Levimir forum, please start a new thread each day which says ‘[Cat name] OTJ trial Day 1 BG xx’ (where xx is the BG reading for that cycle PM), then day2,3 etc. If you are posting in the Main Forum, we don’t require you or need you to do that separate post for each day. In fact, if you have never posted before over in the Lantus/Levimir forum or use a different insulin, you are fine staying in the Feline Health (Welcome & Main Forum). Or in the specific ISG (Insulin Support Group) for your insulin. We’ll cheer you on!

1. Test at your normal AMPS and PMPS times. Remember, you want a 2 hour fast before those AMPS and PMPS test times. Feed multiple small meals throughout the day as much as possible (small meals are less likely to overwhelm a newly functioning pancreas). The morning test is now called the AMBG. The evening test is now called the PMBG.

2. If your cat is green (0-99 mg/dL human meter, 0-130 mg/dL pet meter, 0-5.5 mmol/L) at your normal test times, no need to test further until the next "PS" time, just feed small meals and go about your day. If the numbers are blue or higher (100-199 human meter, 130-230 petmeter, 5.5-11 mmol/L), feed a small meal and test again after about 3 hours. Food raises BG's. So if the number is lower 3-4 hours after a meal, then the pancreas is working!

3. Your cat may have a sporadic blue number. Don't panic but post before you decide whether to shoot so we can have a discussion.

4. After 2 weeks, 14 full days, if everything is looking good, we have a party!

Sometimes, the trial doesn't work the first time and we have to give a little more support by starting the cat with a tiny dose of insulin again. I had to do that with Wink. We simply start the cat back on a tiny dose of insulin to support the pancreas with healing for a bit longer. Our goal is a strong remission and it's better to be safe now then sorry later that you rushed it. With just a little more time we will probably get that strong remission we are looking for.

p.s. Go Opi Go! Keep those BG numbers low!!!!!
 
Thank you. I figured that on the 19th but I had fed him and after a hour he went up so that’s when I decided to still give it to him. Thankfully he didn’t go hypo. And his dose is basically 1 drop but I didn’t know how to enter it in the spreadsheet besides the 0.1. I still haven’t gotten the hang of diff size drops so he was getting a large drop I would say. So if his number go up by day 5 should I start insulin again?
 
Take it slow and easy. There is no rush with the OTJ trial.

I'm not usually here until later in the evenings east coast time, after 8 pm. So you might not get a response from me until later than you need, but tag me if you have a question about starting up the dose again.

Or tag @Panic or @JanetNJ the other 2 people helping with the Prozinc ISG forum.
 
Deb & Wink said:
Take it slow and easy. There is no rush with the OTJ trial.

I'm not usually here until later in the evenings east coast time, after 8 pm. So you might not get a response from me until later than you need, but tag me if you have a question about starting up the dose again.

Or tag @Panic or @JanetNJ the other 2 people helping with the Prozinc ISG forum.
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Awesome thank you.
 
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