OTJ, but tested 193 this morning and goopy eye...

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JenM

JenM

Member Since 2013
I thought I'd start a new thread on this - I added it to my "back from vacation" thread for history... but not sure it's getting seen.
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At what point to I need to freak out?? :/

Tink has been testing higher since I got back from vacation, but aside from the stray 173 on 5/21, I wasn't too concerned.

This morning he had some milky white eye discharge in one eye. His ears were very cold, but that's pretty typical. He tested a 193!!! I immediately retested, using the other ear, and got 160. With such a huge difference, I felt horrible, but poked again and got 164. Felt better about the 160/164 than the 193... but still! I tested him again about 30-45 min after he got his breakfast (1.5 oz of Wellness GF) and he had only gone up to 205, so I came to work. His ears were oddly warm at this point - to the extent I almost wanted to take his temp, but was short on time and his nose was normal temp, so I didn't.

I'm guessing the minor eye issue may have his numbers elevated? But being as this is his first illness of any sort since diagnosis... I'm not sure if it requires he be seen by a vet or not. I would not normally take a cat to the vet over a little white eye goop. But this is new territory. He's been acting normal, eating, playing, peeing, etc. He has had quite the appetite the last week+ and has recently resumed his prediagnosis behavior of asking to drink from the faucet... but only takes a sip or two, rather than gulping it down like he used to. What do you all think?


I did schedule with a NEW vet for tonight at 6pm just to get the eye checked out and hopefully prevent any issues. He's not been seen since he came home back in November as I was hugely unhappy with that vet and didn't want to cause undue stress. This new clinic CLAIMS to have FD knowledgable vets - I've heard many good things about them, so fingers/paws crossed!
 
Remember, no steroids or oral meds with sugar - remind your vet whenever giving you any medication. Always double check. confused_cat
 
About a month ago, my Wink had some high blips in his readings too. I could tell he wasn't feeling well. I monitored him carefully and he's back to his normal 60-90 range.

If he had not gotten back to normal in a week, I was planning to restart him on insulin.

If his pancreas was working correctly, the BG's at +3-+4 should have gone down.

Suggest you might want to try for those +3 to +4 tests to see if Tink's BG levels are going back down to normal range, 40-120 mg/dL.

If not back in normal range, I think it's time to restart Tink on a tiny dose of insulin.
 
To clarify, I'm using the graph basically to keep track of time at this point, since there is no insulin involved. +3 at night would be 9pm. But his last meal would have been at 4pm-ish, so it would be a +5 as far as food goes. He eats 4 small meals a day. I just updated the notes in his SS to explain this better.

I'm assuming you're saying I should test at +3-4 after food? I could try a couple of those. I can't do it in the morning or mid-day, but could do it in the evening. I did test about 45min after I fed him yesterday morning and he'd gone from 193 pre-food to 205 post-food - but I'd expect that so shortly after eating (I think?).


As far as the vet update: I LOVE THEM. :) They have a lot of vets there, so I dont know if they're all as good... but this guy was definitely talking diabetes to me! And... some kudos to you all... he said at least 3 times "this chart is really great!" (re: the SS). :RAHCAT Anyway... he said Tink's eye looks ok - a little conjunctivitis, probably a seasonal allergy. Gave him some gentamyacin I think it was called - eye ointment. He was concerned about Tink's increased appetite lately and I think I'd mentioned to you guys that he's started asking for water at the faucet again occasionally but rarely drinks it - and when he does it's just a lick or two. But still... looks like increased thirst drive. He does want a urine sample to rule out a bladder infection or UTI, but his bladder wasnt full enough so that job is on me. Of course Tink must know that so didn't pee at his "regularly scheduled time" - though I dont think there's any issue there as yesterday his stream was fine. Still... I'll get the sample when I can and run it over to them.

The vet is a huge proponent of home testing and really sounded like he knew what he was talking about. He said Tink's teeth look GREAT for his age. I've had MUCH younger cats with MUCH worse teeth - he didn't even recommend a dental at this point, and he's NEVER had one. I hope he's not using my toothbrush when I'm not home!!! nailbite_smile LOL

Other than that, he said everything looks good - said a few times what a "good looking cat" Tink is. The Wellness really has done wonders for him - sleek shiny coat, super thick... and he's built like a tank. Weighed in at 13.2 lb, but it's a lot more muscle than flab. Prior to diagnosis, he was 14lb roughly, but had quite the "saggy baggy" going on. He's got a little flab, but not nearly as much as he used to. I'd still like to see him at 12 lb though.

I guess, aside from the urine sample... it's up to him at this point. Nothing is wrong, so I'll just keep watching the numbers. SO FAR the only thing over 200 was yesterday right after food. I guess it'd be a good idea to do a curve this weekend and see what's happening throughout the day. Haven't done one since January I think, so it's long overdue.
 
I'm assuming you're saying I should test at +3-4 after food? I could try a couple of those. I can't do it in the morning or mid-day, but could do it in the evening.
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Yes, I am saying to test at +3 to +4 hours after food. This is something we suggest that people do during an OTJ trial if the BG level is >100 mg/dL. Evening tests would be just fine. Whatever fits best into your schedule.

Just think of this as being a really long, extended OTJ trial and test at that +3 to +4 timeframe whenever Tink's BG is over 100 mg/dL. It's a good time to test, because it will show you if he's producing insulin on his own and bringing the BG levels down after he has eaten. Food raises the BG level and insulin, weather it's being giving by a shot or your cats body is producing some, should bring the BG levels back down. It takes time for the food to be completely processed, which is why the suggestion is to test in the +3 to +4 hour timeframe.

To clarify, I'm using the graph basically to keep track of time at this point, since there is no insulin involved.
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I'm also only using the SS now to track Winks' BG levels during his honeymoon. He's been OTJ (diet controlled) for 15 months now but I still want to keep track of his BG levels. I calculate the times from when he is fed or what would have normally been his "pre-shot" test time and plug the numbers into the appropriate cell on the SS.

Food will usually raise the BG levels around 30-40 points fairly quickly. That test you got at +0.75 (45 minutes after eating) reflects this rise in BG with food intake.

Since Tink has a "little bit of flab" as you describe it and you'd like to get him down to 12 pounds, you might try cutting back on the food just the tiniest bit. It might only take a reduction in food intake of 1/2 to 2 teaspoons to make a difference. At least, that's the way it is with my 3 kitties.
 
I just worry that cutting the food any further will result in poor nutrition. The can suggests an ounce per pound of body weight. That would be a full can a day for his ideal 12 pounds. He eats 6oz a day. Granted, it's not EXACTLY 6 oz. I have 4 cats, so for each feeding, I slice off half the can (think cranberry sauce, lol) and then cut that half into 4 quarters, each cat getting one. I have been trying to give him the "smaller" chunks... but it doesn't seem to be making any difference.

We do have to watch him though as he scarfs his food down in about 5 seconds and then will force his way into another cats bowl. I've made sure that hasn't happened since I got back from vacation on the 19th and intend to keep monitoring this.

It just seems like such a small amount of food! I'd guess it to be maybe 2 tablespoons each feeding. I feel like I'm forcing him to drink a slim fast shake for every meal! LOL
 
My 12 pound civie Monet gets 6 to 7 ounces a day. My 10.5 sugardude Wink gets 5.5 to 6 ounces a day. My 7 pound civie Dancer gets 4 ounces a day. If they gain/lose too much, I adjust the food a bit each week. They are all maintaining their weights and body condition well on this food intake.

Your best bet is to keep Tink away from scarfing up the other kitties food and getting more than his fair share. ohmygod_smile Try that first for a couple of weeks to see how it goes.

What's Tink getting for treats these days? How often?
 
Ok, that makes me feel better. I thought an ounce per pound sounded excessive. That's a huge amount of food for a little cat belly (I use the term "little" loosely here, lol).

I HAD to start monitoring the food stealing because my poor Hoppy, who's already severely disabled (deformed front legs since birth) lost a ton of weight. Overall, that's a good thing - he desperately needed to lose it - but it did come off a bit faster than I'd have liked. He seems to have stabilized now that I'm watching Mr Piggy (Tink) and making sure poor Hops gets to actually consume all the food he's given. I am glad that he lost the weight as he was starting to have a hard time getting around, between the deformity and the extra blubber... but Tink can stop helping now! :lol:

Tink doesn't get much for treats. I feed him right after his morning test, which is fine by him. A treat would only slow down the process and that would be unacceptable in his eyes. He does still insist on his evening treat though, before I go to bed. This USED to be a testing time, back when he was being poked 4x/day... but he hasn't had evening tests in months. However, if I dont give it to him, he sits outside my bedroom door and paws at it until it opens. So... he wins. :) He gets his PureBites (100% freeze dried meat - currently chicken I think) once per day, before bed. Just one piece.
 
OH for the love of GOD! These animals are trying to drive me insane.

Daughter just called and apparently the dog didn't eat her food this morning and at some point knocked it over in her kennel. There is kibble all over the living room floor, which of course Tink was eating. We have NO idea how much he ate or how long it was available. It's full carb Kirkland dog kibble. ohmygod_smile

grr_red

I'm going to test him as soon as I get home here, in the next half hour or so.

ALSO going to invest in some sort of wall-mount food dish for her kennel. I dont know why she's not wanting to eat her breakfast in her kennel anymore. She'll eat it if I put it outside with her, but not in her kennel. She's eaten it in there every morning since she was 9 weeks old and she's almost a year old now. She eats her dinner fine. She's gonna drive me batty!!!!
 
Put the food down for a period, then remove it until the next feeding. Your dog will figure out you aren't going to give in. Right now, she's got trained!
 
That's exactly what I did this morning. Put it outside with her for a bit, didn't eat it. Tried to feed her in the kitchen (in my presence), didn't eat it. Oh well. My daughter has a late start at school, so she's going to offer it one more time - after that... she can wait till dinner. I'm sure she'll catch on quickly.

It's never been an issue - she normally scarfs it up in a matter of minutes. Must not be feeling totally well herself, though you'd never know it as she's still incredibly hyperactive.

Tink's bg was 163 I think when I got home - but I'm not sure WHEN he ate kibble or how much. Could have been snacking all day, could have scarfed a bunch up right before he got caught... we'll never know. I should have tested again later, but forgot about it until a little while after his dinner, so figured that number wouldn't tell me much anyway. This morning he was 175 though... so I'm not sure if that's leftover from the kibble, or if it's just a high morning.

Finally got the urine sample the vet wanted so should have those results tomorrow. I'm home tomorrow, so I'm going to do a curve on Tink as well - to get an idea of what his numbers are doing throughout the day. We'd experienced high mornings for quite awhile, but if he's staying well over 120 for most of the day, I might need to consider doing something about it.

I still have Humulin R, Prozinc and Lantus on hand - though all were purchased at the end of October, and the Humulin had a fast approaching expiration date - Dec I think - on the bottle. If I DO need to start shooting small doses again, I'm thinking I'll do Prozinc as it worked well last time. However, would it be safe to TRY using what I already have and seeing if it's still effective, or do I need to purchase a new bottle. This is all IF I need to start shooting again.
 
I'd give the Prozinc you have on hand a try before you go out and spend more on a new vial.

If you find that it's not having any effect, then it's time to consider a new vial.
 
Under 200, so even if the insulins have dropped in potency, they may be helpful if you were to shoot a drop or two. (Are you familiar with drop dosing?)

Treating any infection may resolve the glucose issue on its own.
 
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