OT-hate to bring it up, but...

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mybuddybinks

mybuddybinks

Member Since 2010
Okay, I'm still a little unsure, so I'm just going to ask...
when we see a new Lantus user post on the main board,
is there any reason not to do like we always have and invite them to check out our group?

celi
 
Wellllllll.....this is from the "New to the Group" Sticky:

IF YOU'RE NEW TO THE FELINE DIABETES MESSAGE BOARD, FELINE HEALTH: THE MAIN FDMB FORUM IS THE PLACE TO INTRODUCE YOURSELF AND YOUR DIABETIC CAT TO THE BOARD. HEALTH IS WHERE YOU'LL RECEIVE A PROPER WELCOME FROM OUR MEMBERS AS WELL AS HELP WITH LEARNING HOW TO HOMETEST AND THE BASICS OF FELINE NUTRITION AND DIABETES.
PLEASE START THERE.
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It would be nice if they are at least hometesting and have a SS before coming to LL :-D But that's just my two cents worth which may NOT be worth that much in reality :lol: :lol: :lol:
 
actually, i think you're right on target...
one other thing that was suggested was that they be trying to transition to wet food...
so i think your two cents jives with other savvy folks' thoughts :-D

ETA: so pretty much asked and answered...
THANKS!

I just want to avoid any "recruitment issues" :lol:
 
I just want to avoid any "recruitment issues"
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:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

funny-pictures-basement-cat-recruitment-team.jpg
 
:lol: :lol: :lol: Gosh, I love to laugh!
I am so grateful that someone "recruited" me when I first posted on Health. I'm not sure who it was, but I was almost immediately contacted by Jill and got lots of help in setting up a spreadsheet, profile and transitioning to wet food. Thank the goddess for recruiters! :lol:
 
here's my 2 cents on the issue. i've been spending tons of time on Main Health and i know what you're saying, celi. it was a no-brainer before - use PZI, go here. use Lantus, go there. now there are 2 Lantus forums. so the picture changes and nobody wants to appear to be recruiting or competing with the relaxed forum.

i'm mentioning this forum to basically everyone using Lantus on the main health board. i hope others from LL will invite new people as well. there are 40 people here on a daily basis who can help someone new get started and the main health board seems stretched thin without enough help. there were 4 new condos on the Relaxed Forum today, with a commensurate amount of traffic.

yes, i think marje is right, it's helpful if they've switched their cat to canned low-carb, learned to at least poke and have a ss, but after that, i think we have something incredibly valuable to offer. if we don't invite and offer, how will they know?

the Rand/Roomp protocol is documented to help cats early in diagnosis get off of insulin - the stat from our Tight Reg page is 84% of cats within 6 months went off in the study. if people move straight to the relaxed forum, they lose valuable time by being afraid of having their cats get into the 50-100BG range or learning the finer details of how lantus works in getting their cats regulated.

my feeling is that people can come here and be taught how the protocol works and if they want to not follow it, then fine. but we are doing them a disservice and not giving their cat the best possible chance if we don't invite them.

uh, apparently i have a little bit of passion about the issue. :oops: :lol:

to me it's a lot like mastering The Poking. I was absolutely convinced for punkin's safety I had to master it - so i did. i feel that way about this too. newbies are coming to FDMB looking for help for their cats, and if all of us here are convinced it's helped our own cats, why wouldn't we offer it to them?

thanks for bringing up the issue, celi!
 
I would encourage them to come to Lantus TR when they are just starting with it.

If the cat then has additional issues - extremely variable appetite/GI issues like Spitzer, or has extreme swings, like Musette, or has issues with being able to test, etc - then I'd point them to relaxed Lantus ... which might be better named Atypical Lantus (when your cat hasn't studied how to be a compliant diabetic!)
 
Actually, The FDMB protocol was for everyone to start at Health to learn testing, & the basics-if SS & feeding are given great, but I started in Health & was lurking on lantus before I got it..Jill & Jojo helped me come over here, as I was urine testing then & needed the extra help from the lantus peeps- Set up SS & got more feeding info here-I think the reason for the forums, was to direct each person to the insulin group that they needed-It was different because you had more insulins back then-many have been discontinued.
Health was like orientation, the forums like graduation to High School..
 
Regarding BJ's point, you don't know about any of those issues until the cat has been on insulin for some time. You need to give a newly diagnosed cat time to adjust to being on insulin and for a cat that is switching from another insulin to Lantus, you have no idea how well following TR will work for that cat. Giving TR several months (not weeks) to work is reasonable. At that point, the caregiver can better evaluate his/her choices.
 
Well said Sienne! If the Health forum is getting swamped w/ new members new members should be invited here ASAP to ease the strain. This is where they need to learn about Lantus, not the alternative group. I hate the "relaxed" moniker, it's too seductive for new members wanting to ease their way in. There is no "easing" with this disease.
 
I totally agree with Ann and Julie. When I joined, I accidentally bypassed the "Health" forum and jumped right into LL...don't know how I missed that FDMB protocol, but I did. While I did sort of feel like I jumped into the fire, I'm glad I did...I'm not sure if I would have made it over here if I started in Health. I was hometesting when I first came on board...but not enough. I think being HERE, in LL, is what got me on track, and quickly.

As we all know, the diagnosis is quite overwhelming, but between the knowledge and support here in LL, it really is a great place to be. Everyone has to be "new" at some point...for me and Trix, it worked out well.
 
Sienne and Gabby said:
Regarding BJ's point, you don't know about any of those issues until the cat has been on insulin for some time. You need to give a newly diagnosed cat time to adjust to being on insulin and for a cat that is switching from another insulin to Lantus, you have no idea how well following TR will work for that cat. Giving TR several months (not weeks) to work is reasonable. At that point, the caregiver can better evaluate his/her choices.
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What I wrote
BJM said:
If the cat then has additional issues - extremely variable appetite/GI issues like Spitzer, or has extreme swings, like Musette, or has issues with being able to test, etc
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I think one would definitly know if one's cat had extremely variable appetite/GI issues; if on another insulin previously OR not following the protocol, might have seen extreme swings due to improper dose management; or have issues with being able to test without necessarily being on Lantus for months.
 
Totally agree with Ann, Julie, Sienne - and BJ, I think your choice of the word "atypical" to describe the other Lantus forum is excellent.

ETA: So IMO: Freely invite those who are ready for, and in need of, a careful dosing regimen, with the support of people knowledgeable in its application.
 
I also have issues with having a "relaxed" forum for the same reason Ann does. I think it would be much better to have a lantus/levemir TR forum and a lantus/levemir non-TR forum if it's really necessary to have separate forums.

I am totally on board with everyone inviting people to LL from Health and I've done it, too. I was just quoting the Sticky and I think it does help if they have a SS and have learned how to hometest before they come over so we can concentrate
on helping them with Lantus. Those two things can be done in a day....they don't need to be in Health for very long at all.
 
Marjorie and Gracie said:
I also have issues with having a "relaxed" forum for the same reason Ann does. I think it would be much better to have a lantus/levemir TR forum and a lantus/levemir non-TR forum if it's really necessary to have separate forums.

I am totally on board with everyone inviting people to LL from Health and I've done it, too. I was just quoting the Sticky and I think it does help if they have a SS and have learned how to hometest before they come over so we can concentrate
on helping them with Lantus. Those two things can be done in a day....they don't need to be in Health for very long at all.
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It's sad to see this brought up again. I'd urge you all to contact Rebecca if you want name changes to the forums but drudging this up again is depressing.

Now that it's hear I have to ask, why the issue with folks staying on Health longer? There are folks who post on Health that have knowledge on things other than diabetes. Not every cat that comes to FDMB should be looked at as numbers. What about checking for infections, bad teeth, bad hearts, hyperthyroidism, kidney issues, steroid use, antibiotics, constipation, IBD, MegaColon and somehow I think there are a lot more medical conditions that I can't even think of.

Why would you want to throw them into numbers only game and not let others ask the questions and be the detectives who might find out there is more going on? Wouldn't fishing all that out on Health be better for the kitty?

And Kathy's statement "As for recruiting: If Hillary hadn't recruited me to Lantus Land, Kitty wouldn't be OTJ. He might not even be alive. So IMO: Recruit!"

Do you really believe your cat might not be alive? Really? Are the folks on Health that inept? Are you that bad of a caretaker that you would have actually killed your cat?

Why is there such a need to create a great divide? Why the Us vs. Them mentality? Recruiting sounds like military school. I simply do not understand. I would think that many of you started out on Health, is it really so awful that cats must be swept away the moment they agree to hometest?
 
As someone still relatively new to the forum, I'm really glad I was invited to LL as quickly as I was, because the health forum is great for intros and general learning (I still post general questions and info there, but ask specific stuff here), but doesn't replace the targeted sections for specific advice. Mikey is, by definition, regulated in under a month. Of course I want him to be better regulated and go OTJ, but if I hadn't found this board, I don't think that would be the case, and I well could have lost him to hypo in the process.

I think it's a fine line. A couple of newbies posted that they were put off by having to conform to a certain posting format, ss, etc. I think that if they are invited ASAP and see us working with that every day and how helpful it is to all of us, they are more likely to at least try the protocol than if we invite them after a longer period, because they might go elsewhere for advice in that time, and not be given the right advice. So many vets are not aware that Rand/Roomp exists, let alone recommend it.

For me, I'm not sure the protocol will ever work for Mikey "by the book" because he's so sensitive to insulin. But I think that this forum is still the best for him, even if he doesn't fit the exact profile, because I do want to work toward better regulation. I think others might feel the same way-the TR seems very intimidating at first. Very. If we are also intimidating, that's not a good combo, IMO.

FWIW, I agree with calling the other forum Non-TR instead of "relaxed" as that does sort of imply that you can choose to shoot and forget it...and no matter what your end goal, we know that's not the case. If I'd have done that, as my vet suggested, my cat would likely not be alive.

ETA since the last post was at the same time: There is no reason people can't post on both the insulin forum of their choice about that specific part of diabetic care, and on the health forum for more general questions. I post in both locations, depending on the question. Lantus dose/protocol-specific questions go here, general (food, general health, dental, etc.) go there. From personal experience, I was glad to get advice from people who know my insulin and who could guide me and help me understand the numbers. It was important to me to hear how others' cats reacted to the insulin mine is on-not PZI, Lev, or Humulin, but the same insulin. That was the single biggest help to me, knowing that mine isn't the only one to not have the perfect curve. The numbers are important. And too many vets try to tell pet owners they're not important at all.
 
I couldn't agree with Jennifer and Amy/Mikey more!! I still suggest that people who are LL stalwarts post their general and/or medical questions to Health. There's a huge level of experience and expertise there that everyone can benefit from.

I honestly find it hard when someone lands in an ISG and doesn't know how to home test, doesn't have a SS, is confused about nutrition, etc. and wants information on dosing. I'm not comfortable doing it. Health is where the basics should be and can be covered. That doesn't mean we can't go lend a hand and encourage someone to get all of those things in order prior to then helping them get focused on what the numbers mean and how to best manage their cat's diabetes. Getting your head wrapped around the fact that your cat was just diagnosed with FD usually sends people reeling -- it did me especially since Gabby was very sick at the time. Finding FDMB and figuring out all that needs to be done is overwhelming, especially if the newbie is needle phobic or just afraid they will hurt their cat from shooting, let alone poking. And then to hand them a large volume's worth of sticky notes as an introduction to Lantus -- well, it's a credit to the climate that the members here create that a new person sticks around. I agree that it's wonderful that there are people that help to make the transition from Health to LL relatively easily. I'd encourage us all to help people gain some sense of mastery on Health and then help that new person to transition here. Asking people to jump directly into LL is like telling someone to sign up for advanced calculus without ever having taken a basic math class.
 
tuckers mom said:
Why is there such a need to create a great divide? Why the Us vs. Them mentality? Recruiting sounds like military school. I simply do not understand. I would think that many of you started out on Health, is it really so awful that cats must be swept away the moment they agree to hometest?
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i've purposely avoided this thread and the related thread on TT because i find the subject aggravating. however, jennifer's comments gave me the push i needed to share my thoughts.

i couldn't agree with jennifer more.

while jennifer was posting, i was typing similar comments in an email to a few fdmb friends. in part, my email included the following comments:

tr is an advanced technique. 99% of the responses on that thread think tr is basic and the first step for a newbie. 99% of the responders on that thread (and the TT thread) have no idea what SLGS is (the trademark of the fdmb) and if they do... they don't grasp it.

i miss the old days when the basics were taught on Health. when caregivers came to the isg's with a basic understanding of the disease, the insulin they were using, feline nutrition, and how to record their numbers. it was only then that they were ready for the next step. very few were mentally and emotionally ready to step right into a forum with experienced users.

imho, immediately funneling newbies into an advanced forum has been a disservice to the newbie... a source of frustration which has left too many overwhelmed and crying uncle. as a result, they've left... never to be heard from again. creating a "relaxed" forum has not solved this problem. imho, it's only served to create new ones.

personally, i have no interest in teaching the basics of feline diabetes, how to hometest, how to set up a spreadsheet and/or profile, or convincing someone an all wet high protein diet low in carbs is better for the cat. these things do not belong in the tr forum. these things are prerequisites for the tr protocol itself! testing often is a prerequisite. practicing tr is not diabetes 101.

i wish those well who want to turn the tr forum into a beginners arena. i pray they'll be careful to do no harm because promoting an advanced technique to individuals who are still reeling from the diagnosis can be down right dangerous.


i realize my thoughts will not sit well with some. i just can't help asking what's the rush to shove newbies off to a forum where an advanced technique is promoted? research has shown us starting a TR protocol within 6 months of diagnosis with lantus or levemir has shown to yield the best results. within 6 months. some caregivers are ready to start TR sooner than others. some will arrive in the lantus TR forum immediately. others may take weeks or months. some may never arrive here. it seems to me newbies are better served when allowed to spend some time on Health getting their feet wet... becoming comfortable. can't we give that to them?

this talk of "recruiting" really bothers me. jennifer nailed it. this is sad and depressing.
 
Do you really believe your cat might not be alive? Really? Are the folks on Health that inept? Are you that bad of a caretaker that you would have actually killed your cat?
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Jennifer, you obviously had not read our profile when you addressed this to me. Kitty was near death when we got here.

I understand Jill's point, and I will happily withdraw the "recruit" comment. For newly diagnosed kitties who have time to get on their feet, with spreadsheet and diet change and basic dosing information - Health is probably a wonderful place.

It was important to ME and to Kitty to get here quickly, because Kitty was nearly dead by the time we found FDMB. He had been consistently overdosed by the vet for months, and I didn't know any better at the time. Had I not gotten onto a careful dosing regimen quickly, I truly do not think Kitty would have survived. So, yes, Jennifer, I really do believe that Kitty would not still be alive.

But I understand that we're not the common case. It's a sign of the great success of FDMB that so many kitties get here so early after diagnosis.

ETA: Out of respect for LL experts, nothing further to add.
 
BJM said:
If the cat then has additional issues - extremely variable appetite/GI issues like Spitzer, or has extreme swings, like Musette, or has issues with being able to test, etc - then I'd point them to relaxed Lantus ... which might be better named Atypical Lantus (when your cat hasn't studied how to be a compliant diabetic!)
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funny thing is, these kinds of issues have been handled successfully in the Lantus ISG for years. so has split dosing, dosing TID, using food manipulation, incorporating the use of a bolus insulin, and more. not every cat has read the manual. some kitties thumb their noses at the TR Protocol. ECID is not and never has been just a slogan in the Lantus ISG. we find what works for the individual cat and caregiver when it becomes obvious following the guidelines in the protocol are not working.
 
Geez, guys...I truly didn't mean to generate a new discussion of the thoughts in Think Tank...
and I'm somewhat embarrassed, as I'm the first one who used the word "recruitment"...
a poor choice of words, and not something to joke about :oops:
my sense of humor is off beat, and doesn't always come across well in typed conversation...
especially if you aren't familiar with my posting technique.

My previous inclination was to always invite lantus users to the Lantus forum...and I am again embarrassed to
admit that I have not read the discussion in Think Tank in it's entirety.

I posted the question for one reason only...and that is that
I did not educate myself completely on the discussion, and thought it would be bad form to offer suggestions
without knowing if it had been previously addressed...
and laziness prompted me to post before checking out the thread in Think Tank.

Again... I'm sorry-
Binks' lazy bean feels that further discussion should best be held in Think Tank :oops: :oops: :oops:

Celi
 
Thanks, Celi. I agree and only want to post the following to apologize.

Marjorie and Gracie wrote:
I also have issues with having a "relaxed" forum for the same reason Ann does. I think it would be much better to have a lantus/levemir TR forum and a lantus/levemir non-TR forum if it's really necessary to have separate forums.
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It's sad to see this brought up again. I'd urge you all to contact Rebecca if you want name changes to the forums but drudging this up again is depressing.
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Jennifer is totally right in the quote above and I was wrong to bring this up. My sincere apologies. I also do not want to see a "we" vs "us" mentality and that was never my intent in my statement. Many of us go over to the "Relaxed" forum to help if we can. That should be the focus....helping no matter where someone posts.

Thank you, Jennifer....
 
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