OT-Chyna vet visit/Labs, first subq done!

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Rachel & Chyna (GA)

Rachel & Chyna (GA)

Member Since 2012
Hello, LL! We had Chynas 3 month checkup/bloodwork yesterday with the vet. Of course, my vet was on vacation again so I had the locum vet but this time she was patient and fairly helpful. She listened to Chynas heart on my request (so I knew it was ok for subqs) and she said it is a steady, strong beat with no sign of a murmur or hyper something. Chyna peed all over I guess when they lifted her to the table to get blood and the vet was excited so she could examine the pee ( :lol: )…she said it wasn’t too diluted or too concentrated.

Poor kitty growled and made interesting (loud) noises but sat really good for them. She’s apparently at a good weight but she shouldn’t gain any more, and her ears are free of infection so we must be dealing with another allergy (sigh). Then came the wait for bloodwork results…

They called late this morning and said Chynas anemia was back and that her UREA/CREA was up as well but phosphorus is still in the normal range. So I’m freaking a bit but trying to stay calm. She recommends starting ESAs for the anemia (she said “Eprex”) but it’s $250 that I don’t have…and she is at HCT 28.5% so I think it’s below 20% that Tanyas site says to start them?…I’ve got reading up to do.

SO they had me come in to learn subqs this afternoon even though shes still under 300 CREA (just barely) she thinks I should start. Chyna stayed home, they had a cat there under anesthesia that needed fluids that they showed me on and had me do. I didn’t realize how hard it is to get that bigger needle in so I’m glad I got to try it…although I’m still a bit squeamish. They gave me sodium chloride for the subqs? I asked about LRS but they don’t carry it. The vet did recommend starting with 18g but I had already ordered/received the Terumo UTW 20g online and told her so. I bought a months worth of supplies (they had the bags of fluid in various sizes and I had no clue if big or little were better…so 250ml size so I got 4). She said to give 250ml once a week, 150ml twice a week, or 100ml every second day…that it should be at least 100ml when I do “stick her” so it’s worth it? So I’m not sure yet on what to give. I think most of you do daily? Time to watch Marjes video of subqs on sweet Gussie over and over ohmygod_smile Random stupid question...do subqs help constipation? And I only need to refrigerate the fluids after using part of the bag right?

Of course, my mom is out of town for another week and I was going to have her help hold Chyna at first so I’m panicking a bit :shock: . The only friend who would be ok with it is allergic to cats! I’m sure I forgot to ask something. If any of you can offer lab advice or anything else I’d sure appreciate it :-D

New lab numbers added to my spreadsheet here: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0Ah2sMXcTlE-ddEVYOC1XcHJRMEFwc3Q2ZF9PNGpSS1E#gid=9
And the copy of the actual lab scanned in here: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0Ah2sMXcTlE-ddEVYOC1XcHJRMEFwc3Q2ZF9PNGpSS1E#gid=17

Previous condo on Sept 12: http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=104326&p=1110109&hilit=chyna#p1109648
 
Re: OT-Chyna vet visit/Labs?/starting subqs (eek!)

Hardey is sending purrs to you and Chyna. It's so hard when your baby is not feeling well. :YMSIGH:

Don't really have any advice, just wanted you to know that good thoughts are heading your way.
 
Re: OT-Chyna vet visit/Labs?/starting subqs (eek!)

I gave sub-qs to River for a while, daily. I used the 21 needles, and was patient, and most times so was he! Sometimes I'd only get half of what he was supposed to get into him, and that would be okay, as most days he got the full amount.

I didn't refrigerate my bags. I kept them at room temp, and preheated them beforehand in a bowl of warm water. A friend who gave his cat fluids every day suggested this, and I found it helped a lot with my cat tolerating the liquid. It made him go from being annoyed and me having to calm and distract him from walking away, to him just not caring a heckuva lot.

There's a bit of a learning curve involved, just like there was to hometesting and injecting insulin. But hey, it's a useful new skill. Just be calm, confident and smooth when you insert the needle, and tent her skin at her shoulders really well, and it should go quite smoothly.

Best wishes! You'll go from eek to whatevah in no time!
 
Re: OT-Chyna vet visit/Labs?/starting subqs (eek!)

I definitely would not give 250 mL once a week :o
Best scenario is some each day. I was even giving it AM and PM for a while so as not to have a large blob-o-fluid in the kitty all at once. My CKD civvie received darbopoietin injections for a while due to her anemia, but her situation was pretty severe and her hematocrit was down to 15.

Giving fluids is something that has a learning curve like testing BGs. You have to find what works best for you and Chyna. I had to do it for two civvies, and one was *such* a drama queen about it, but even she got over it and I no longer needed an extra pair of hands to hold her while I poked.

MJ
 
Re: OT-Chyna vet visit/Labs?/starting subqs (eek!)

Thanks guys, I'm trying not to be nervous! I'll probably start them tomorrow, tonight I am watching the videos and reading as much as I can :shock: I was thinking that 250ml weekly at once seemed sort of ridiculous and I've never seen any of you post about it like that! I can't do twice daily with the way work is, I'm hoping that 100ml every second day will be ok even if it's just to start out? If she will let me :? :o ;-) I have the infrared gun to test the temperature after warming them too:) I'll have treats nearby nailbite_smile
 
Re: OT-Chyna vet visit/Labs?/starting subqs (eek!)

100ml sounds good. It will be a learning process for you both.

I will put the treats down and while Sid is munching Ill put the needle in. Once in, kitty doesn't seem to care.

Good luck...breathe while doing it...helps to reduce your stress.
 
Re: OT-Chyna vet visit/Labs?/starting subqs (eek!)

I have been giving Izzy Sub Q fluids on and off for the past 3-4 years.

1. buy an inexpensive infrared thermometer. Harbor Freight, Radio Shack have them.
2. Warm the fluids bag by floating in hot tap water. You will have to change out the water multiple times and get the bag of fluids close to 100 degrees.
3. Buy different needles than the vet gives you. They give you harpoons. Literally 18 gauge is what they gave me. Those are the size needles I use on my horses. I use, Terumo 21s. I have used 20s, but prefer the 21s. Next time I may buy 22s. The higher the number the smaller diameter. Smaller diameter also means it takes longer.
4. I always purge my lines Before I give fluids. I test test the fluids on my inside wrist (like you would a baby bottle). The lines are usually cold and then when you git the fluids from the bag it is warmer...and you also make sure its not too hot.
5. Find a regular spot to give the fluids. I bought those 3m stick on the wall hooks. I have one placed on my wall up high and I hang the bag from it. Fluids run quicker if the bag is elevated.
6. I never refridgerate my fluids.
7. I got into the habit of removing the used needle immediate after giving Sub Qs and putting a new fresh one on...so I always know my bag is ready to go.
8. Never give more than 100 at a time. Tanyas CRF site has a great analogy of how much fluids are in terms of if it were a human. Gives a great perspective.

I will peek at her labs. Izzy's labs are the 2nd page of her SS if you want to look at hers :)
 
Thanks for the list and the advice guys:) I did have a temp gun (infrared) and terumo 20g needles that I ordered before hand since I knew our day was coming to do these. I did the needle/freezer trick from Marjes video. Needle went in SO much easier than the one I used at the vet (harpoon). Our first sub q is done! I did them in the same place we do our ear pokes and only had it on 3/4 flow for the roller ball for our first try, maybe I'll open it all the way next time. I managed to get the fluids heated to 92.5F, I know it should be warmer but how the heck do you get them warmer? I used my hottest water in a steel loaf pan...and changed the water a few times. I guess I just need patience pants for this too, to keep changing the water to hot ;-)

Anyways, she was a good girl who got treats and praising. She didn't seem to notice the needle poke (which is weird since for insulin she cried) but she did try walk away once she had a bit of fluids going in...but stayed with some gentle pull back to me and some shrimp purebites. I DID forget to clamp the line when done so when I took the needle out fluid sprayed everywhere for a few seconds ohmygod_smile :lol: I think I got maybe 75ml into her :-D Phew! They gave me weird IV lines that have the roller ball way up by the bag and glass thingys that I can't pull it down over so I had to use the clamp. Then I got some annoyed meows when we were done and I tried to pet her cat(2)_steam Hopefully all is forgiven soon :shock: Next time may be not as easy now that she knows what's coming :?

Hope everyone has had a nice weekend! :-D :-D
 
You're both champs! That went smoothly, and having spraying fluid is par for the course for me.
For heating the solution, I put it in a big bowl with hot water about 15 mins beforehand and it seemed fine.
 
Hey you did awesome! Way smoother than my first time :) Izzy is fine a long as we are in the 90s...otherwise she gets all growly if its too cold. Next time, open that baby up wide open :) Makes the fluids go in faster. Honestly I find SubQs easier than insulin lol Less precision!
 
Will try a bigger hot water container and open the fluids all the way next time:) She must have needed them, the little bump disappeared quite fast...wonder if I should be doing another tomorrow and then go to every second day, or just wait and do 100ml the next day? I don't want to overhydrate...ugh. confused_cat
 
Hi, Rachel, congrats on administering the fluids!
It'll get easier very quickly.

I've been giving 100mlto Ripley every day since Feb.
She seems to prefer when the temp is low 90s (90-93 deg. or so).

Marje and Gus are excellent teachers :-D

Give sweetie Chyna scritches from me :YMHUG:
 
Yay for the first successful sub-q fluids administration!
Lucy is stage 2 CKD, and I also give sub-q fluids to her, not absolutely a must yet, but just to give her some support!
And it has turned out to be an extremely useful skill to have.
When she vomits or had diarrhea, I can give her sub-q fluids to compensate the lost fluids, and she always feels better afterwards!
 
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