Ongoing frustration with Tuck's numbers

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AbyResq

AbyResq

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I can't seem to get out of this pattern with high blues mid cycle and then reds and blacks by +12. It looks to me like Tuck's insulin is done by +10. What's the harm in trying to aim for lower mid-cycle numbers at this point?

At least Oliver is fairly stable. He had an odd high cycle last night but is back on track today.
 
It's a tough one Kristen. Because if you raise the dose to get lower mid cycles, you risk him bouncing more. And he is already bouncing hard. I just don't know that this is the best option. I know you've said you aren't interested in changing insulins (which I get...the last thing you need is cats on such different types of insulins as that could be a tragedy). So, really, the best options are to either hold the dose and hope he stops bouncing soon, or lower it in hopes of a more gentle curve. Neither is great. With holding the dose, you don't know WHEN he'll stop bouncing. With lowering it, you have higher numbers throughout the day.

I wish I had some good advice, but I don't. What do you feed them? Any chance of getting something lower carb? Not saying that's the answer, but it COULD help maybe?

In the end, you hold the syringe, and you have to make the decision. I just wanted to explain why I felt that raising the dose might not be the answer.

@Sue and Oliver (GA) @Robin&BB do you have any thoughts? I'm just not sure what to advise here.
 
:arghh: But seriously thanks for your thoughts. It's why I asked before just raising him.

He is eating Fancy Feast classic foods. (Turkey & Giblets, Beef & Chicken, Liver & Chicken, Beef & Liver or Mixed Grill). Because of the rapid drops and increases he's always ravenous. He eats his meal in under 3 seconds - reminds me of a dog. I could lower his portion size to see if that helps. He's currently getting 3/4 can 4 times a day. His ideal weight is somewhere between 11 & 12 lbs. He is eating a lot.0

And I got a call from a vet practice today to take in a third Aby with diabetes (no lie). She is also on ProZinc. Switching just scares me. I'm so afraid I will grab the wrong bottle. I also periodically travel for work so it means the cat sitter would have to manage all of this.

Now for my what Ifs...

If you were going to lower the dose what would you try? And how long would you leave it there if he had a gentle albeit high curve?

Is there harm in trying to shoot more frequently? I've done some reading on tight regulation with ProZinc. I haven't given it serious thought because the target numbers seem dangerously low to me. But I do wonder what would happen if I started dosing him every 10 hours. I guess I have a hard time understanding if he's bouncing vs the insulin just wears off too soon. I know you all think it's bouncing and you're way more experienced than me.
 
People do dose ProZinc every 8 hours. It's easier to do than 10 would be because it fits into 3 segments every 24 hours. You take whatever amount you are giving in a 24 hour period and divide it by 3. The trick is that he needs to be rising at +8 not falling, so you don't add more insulin when the old dose is still working.

With Tuck, sometimes a cycle would fit those parameters, but not always.

I agree it is frustrating. What (I think) I see is a very bouncy cat. Lots of his cycles look okay in the middle. And then he bounces! Have I suggested you look at B00kworm's spreadsheet in the Remission thread? Cassie bounced for 2 years. Lisa tried everything - dosing every 8 hours, reducing, increasing. He just bounced until he stopped. And then he went off the juice!
 
Thanks, Sue. You did suggest looking at her sheet and did look it up. I need to list him for adoption and I really wanted to list a cat who was better controlled. It's selfish of me to keep him here trying to regulate him when I know I need to place him in his 'forever' home. He's so cooperative for all of his pokes and as you can see from my sheet, I poke him a lot! He knows the routine. If you want your food it begins with an ear poke.
 
I agree, a good example of ECID. When Tuck first started ProZinc his results were encouraging but something changed.
 
Kristen I feel your frustration.
Fritz my kitty is struggling with his numbers. Every time I think celebrate his numbers go high and start bouncing. :banghead:
I question my ability to help my poor kitty.
My patience pants are on more than they are off.
I am not going to give up!
With Fritz it seems like evetytime I feed him Fancy Feast LC his numbers rise .
Maybe it has nothing to do with it.
But one has to question something along the way changed.
Hang in there! Good luck with Tuck:cat:
 
Sarah Smith said:
Crazy! is he still dropping?
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I went to bed. I feed him a meal at +4 and based on his recent cycles I know that meal slows down his drop.
AMPS was 448. At least it wasn't a black number.

I only gave him 1 unit this morning. I will try that for a few cycles and see if he smoothes out at all. Way back when we started I was feeding him "lunch" at +6. I moved it up to around +4 when he started showing the big fast dips. So maybe going back to a lower dose and altering meal times will help. Can't hurt to try. And bonus, I can use up some of the U40 syringes since I have lots of those, LOL.
 
DebG said:
Kristen I feel your frustration.
Fritz my kitty is struggling with his numbers. Every time I think celebrate his numbers go high and start bouncing. :banghead:
I question my ability to help my poor kitty.
My patience pants are on more than they are off.
I am not going to give up!
With Fritz it seems like evetytime I feed him Fancy Feast LC his numbers rise .
Maybe it has nothing to do with it.
But one has to question something along the way changed.
Hang in there! Good luck with Tuck:cat:
Click to expand...

Thanks, you hang in there too! Yes, never give up. Sometimes it helps airing your frustrations so you remember you aren't the only one out there dealing with this. :banghead:

My family thinks I'm nuts for knowingly taking in hard luck cases. Despite the frustrating days I find working with these guys very rewarding. I do need to work on getting Tuck into a permanent home. He's a coming attraction on DCIN ;).
 
AbyResq said:
Thanks, you hang in there too! Yes, never give up. Sometimes it helps airing your frustrations so you remember you aren't the only one out there dealing with this. :banghead:

My family thinks I'm nuts for knowingly taking in hard luck cases. Despite the frustrating days I find working with these guys very rewarding. I do need to work on getting Tuck into a permanent home. He's a coming attraction on DCIN ;).
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This world needs more caring people like you! Thank you for helping the kitties :cat::bighug:
 
Sarah Smith said:
:bighug::bighug::bighug: Hugs for both of you ladies! You are both doing great by your boys!
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Thanks, Sarah. We're all waiting to officially celebrate Cooters being OTJ.

I'm hoping my incoming girl has the same luck as Cooters. The vet, where she is being surrendered, hopes she will return to normal levels once her steroid shot wears off. Then it will be time to figure out if we can manage her skin allergies without steroids. I will probably pick her up in the middle of next week. Then there will be a third worksheet in my file :facepalm:.

@DebG, my theory is that we all do what we can when we can. For me right now that means I help cats.
 
Hoping she can have a fast path to OTJ as well Kristen, you are an angel for helping another sugar kitty! I was talking to my vet back when this all started about steroids, we were using then to fight swelling in Cooters bad leg. Since he couldnt do steroids anymore with the high BG I asked about other options, and there are a few NSAID's (non steroid anti-inflamatory drugs) being used in cats now... I wonder if any of them would help with skin allergies.... unfortunately i didnt get any names from her :(
 
Thanks for checking in @Sarah Smith. Tuck continues to be his bouncy self. I raise the dose, I lower the dose and collect lots of data but don't seem to control the situation.:banghead: He's not excessively thirsty or peeing a lot. Overall I think he is in decent numbers (not great) in the middle of his cycles. His sister finally went to her adopter yesterday. Now he's a single man.

Oliver has been doing pretty well. The last few days he's had a weird rise in glucose after his shots then a drop around +6. He may have found his brother's dry food high on a table. I put that away last night. If he found that food it means his legs are feeling strong enough to start jumping up again - so all in all that would actually be a positive sign.

I pickup the new girl on Saturday morning. I wanted to wait until Tuck's sister went to her new home.

How is your gang?
 
Wishing the very best for Cricket in her new home! No clue about Ollie, but does sound likely he's sneaking the dry, mixed blessing that it is :)

My crew is getting older every day, I forget how old they are until reality sinks in that they are all 12-15.... My girl Domino (her sister's name is cricket, wierd huh!) has been having some breathing problems, started with a dry cough, now she's breathing heavy, no open mouth. Vet did x-rays Tuesday, lungs are all cloudy, thinks we are looking at CHF, lymphoma, or possibly really bad asthma. I don't know what to do, Monday was the 2 yr bridge day of my boy Blue who passed from similar symptoms, no confirmed diagnosis. X-rays were eerily exact matches to my eyes :( She's playing, eating, and acting normal, just breathing heavy a bit. Scared of making it worse trying to treat, that's what happened with my Blue boy! Sorry for the rant, I appreciate you asking after the "kids" :bighug:
 
Sarah Smith said:
Wishing the very best for Cricket in her new home! No clue about Ollie, but does sound likely he's sneaking the dry, mixed blessing that it is :)

My crew is getting older every day, I forget how old they are until reality sinks in that they are all 12-15.... My girl Domino (her sister's name is cricket, wierd huh!) has been having some breathing problems, started with a dry cough, now she's breathing heavy, no open mouth. Vet did x-rays Tuesday, lungs are all cloudy, thinks we are looking at CHF, lymphoma, or possibly really bad asthma. I don't know what to do, Monday was the 2 yr bridge day of my boy Blue who passed from similar symptoms, no confirmed diagnosis. X-rays were eerily exact matches to my eyes :( She's playing, eating, and acting normal, just breathing heavy a bit. Scared of making it worse trying to treat, that's what happened with my Blue boy! Sorry for the rant, I appreciate you asking after the "kids" :bighug:
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You're not ranting, you're a concerned mom. We all get that. Unfortunately, I have lots of experience with feline asthma. Of the three choices you listed, I'd pick asthma hands down. I received a foster this year who has really bad asthma. My vet pleaded with me not to adopt him out because she knew I understood the treatment. I lost a girl almost a year ago to kidney disease, she'd had asthma for several years. Captain Jack's breathing is horrible and some days I question his asthma diagnosis. Systemic steroids don't improve his symptoms and I really don't want him joining the diabetes group! I'm trying inhaled steroids with him now.

See now that's my blathering to say, I so get it! Hang in there, @Sarah Smith.
 
I am hoping for the asthma as well Kristen! I am trying to find a place to do an ultrasound, but we are trying Lasix for a few days to see if it makes any improvement. Vet thinks there is fluid in her chest, and says there wouldn't be with asthma (?). Her bloodwork was perfect, except for a 153 BG reading but that was treats and stress. Vet said it wouldn't hurt to see if the Lasix does anything since all her numbers were good.
 
Sarah Smith said:
I am hoping for the asthma as well Kristen! I am trying to find a place to do an ultrasound, but we are trying Lasix for a few days to see if it makes any improvement. Vet thinks there is fluid in her chest, and says there wouldn't be with asthma (?). Her bloodwork was perfect, except for a 153 BG reading but that was treats and stress. Vet said it wouldn't hurt to see if the Lasix does anything since all her numbers were good.
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You're in my thoughts @Sarah Smith.
 
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