One week on insulin with no results?

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Lanciepancie

Member Since 2014
My cat was diagnosed two weeks ago. She had previously been on prescription dry food CD from the vet due to urinary crystals. She was on that food for SEVEN years. Since diabetes diagnosis we immediately switched to fancy feast classic wet food(no gravy, the lowest carb ones). She previously was free feeding as much and as often as she wanted. Now only one tiny can in morning and one at night. So one whole week with the new wet food only (she doesn't eat treats or human food) and limited amount. Blood sugar still very high (400s and 500s fasting)so we broke down and got the insulin from the vet. He prescribed vetsulin. Started the insulin 12/6 and as of last night blood sugar still 360! How on earth is that possible? We increased from one unit twice a day to 3 at night and 2 in morning. This morning at 6am blood sugar was 197 which is by far best number yet, but it scientifically doesn't even seem possible it is still that high.... She is literally eating hardly any carbs and is getting 5 units of insulin?? Is it possible the vetsulin is old/bad? It was $90 and it seems like wasted money. Here are the number since 12/6 pm- 408 1 uniit. 12/7 am- 290 1 unit. 12/7 pm- 456 2 units. 12/8 am- unable to get blood sugar- it is like torture and our cat HATES it. We couldn't be late for work so threw in the towel, did get 2 units in her though. 12/8 pm- 393 2 units. 12/9 am- 278 2 units. 12/9 pm- 376 3 units. 12/10 am- 240 2 units. 12/10 pm- 360 3 units. 12/11 am- 197 2 units. The blood sugar monitor is accurate- my husband uses it too and no problems. Any ideas? Any suggestions? Any help is greatly appreciated. The cat is 12 year old spayed female. She is still chugging water and peeing constantly too. Thanks!
 
Vetsulin has a harsh onset, often giving the lowest numbers 2-5 hours after the shot and wearing off after 8 hours, resulting in high preshot numbers. One of the ways to figure out what is happening with her is to get some of those earlier numbers 2-3-5 hours after the shot. If that is what is happening, eitheryou need one of the milder longer lasting insulins like Lantus, Levemir or ProZinc or you need to give 3 shots daily, every 8 hours. (this is a difficult way to give insulin and requires a lot of monitoring. I would not do it without guidance)

It may help the testing if you can find a treat she really likes, and give it only when you are testing.

You definitely need more data to see how the insulin is working or not working.
 
Many cats go lower at night, so you may want to switch the larger dose to morning.

Also, be sure food is on board before giving the Vetsulin.

And, the dose is determined by the nadir, the lowest glucose post shot, not by the pre-shot tests.
 
I would have to disagree about there being results after a week on insulin. There were over 400 numbers in the first two days, in the last there was a number under 200. You are even looking at his highest points in the day, not the lowest so you don't know just how much improvement he' made. I'd say there's definite improvement going on, just need some midcycle tests to know how much.

Vetsulin was made for dogs. Some vets like to prescribe it because they believe it is cheap. You have to use more, there are less doses in the bottle because it is U40 instead of U100, and because it is very hard to regulate a cat let alone find remission, you may be on it for a lot longer, so I don't know if I agree to their cheaper argument yet. But the biggest drawback is that it is a shorter acting insulin that cats have a hard time with. Check out my foster cat Chris Farley's spreadsheet. He was only on Vetsulin for about 4 days, but you can see that while he was staying well above 300 at the preshot tests, he was getting into the low 100s and even made it under 100 at his nadir. Some cats can handle Vetsulin ok and Chris Farley actually got a pretty late nadir with it getting the peek of the insulin after 5 hours usually. But it always wore out before the next shot and let him get very high again. This kind of rollercoaster ride can really make a cat feel punky.

A longer lasting insulin can keep your cat from getting back up to those high numbers at shot time. But testing is really important to know how low the insulin is getting them in order to determine the proper dose.
 
Hi there!

Saoirse started on Caninsulin (UK brand name for Vetsulin) and her vet at the time prescribed a very, very high carb food (Hills w/d dry) for her to support that amount of insulin. As Melanie advised above, the tests that you have done show that there is a response to the Vetsulin (some of the numbers are less than 200). Also, it does take time for the cat's body to acclimatise to the foreign insulin and Vetsulin is really harsh. Saoirse's lethargy was worse in the first few weeks of Caninsulin treatment than it had been before she was diagnosed.

I don't give dosing suggestions but I am a bit concerned about the 2 IU am / 3 IU pm dosing being quite high for a recently diagnosed cat, doubly so with the low carb food. What's your cat's ideal body weight and how much does she weigh at the moment? I'd be very much inclined to discuss the dose amounts with my vet, especially because too much insulin can have the same effect as too little. Both can cause high BG readings. If the dose is too high, the cat's body will start dumping glucose into the bloodstream to counteract potential hypoglycaemia. Also, if the Vetsulin drops are very steep (and they usually are) a fast drop to a low but safe BG concentration can be misinterpreted by the cat's system as a dangerous number, simply because the body has become used to operating at higher numbers and again the liver will dump glucose into the bloodstream in order to protect the cat.

I know that you're finding testing tricky at the moment (it does get easier!), but the sooner you can get mid-cycle numbers - and preferably a full curve - the better you'll be placed to see how the Vetsulin is working for your little one, and also whether the current doses are safe.

Will you be at home over the weekend? If you are, then I'd recommend getting tests at AM +1, +2, +3 and +4 to see if your kitty has an early onset for Vetsulin - sometimes the numbers can plummet in the first few hours after injection time. These drops can then trigger higher numbers later in the cycle through a combination of the Vetsulin wearing off and possibly counter-regulatory hormones kicking in if the drop has been very steep earlier in the cycle (and fast, steep drops are a hallmark characteristic of Vetsulin's action profile). If you're having trouble with getting BG tests, observe your cat's behaviour closely in the hours after the injection (keep in the room with you if at all possible). If your cat suddenly starts looking for food in earnest, that can be a clinical sign of the Vetsulin kicking in and dropping the BG. If you can test at that point, it might give you a better idea of how low and how rapidly the BG drops at onset. Until you know what the BG is doing, if your cat starts looking for food while on Vetsulin, if she were mine I'd give her food to keep her safe. Adding tests at 1 hour and 2 hours after onset can be a good way to catch the first Vetsulin nadir (even if food has been given in the meantime, the BG can go lower anyway). A +7 test can help to identify if your cat gets a second Vetsulin nadir (when the crystalline portion of the insulin is at peak effect).

As Melanie stated above, because it can put kitty on a real BG roller coaster Vetsulin can make some cats feel really dreadful. Saoirse used to try really hard to hide somewhere very inaccessible when it came time for injections and was depressed, lethargic and would spend much of each cycle hiding when she was on that insulin. If your cat is feeling icky because of the insulin type, that could be a contributing factor to your current testing difficulties. Saoirse was much more comfortable when she was switched to Lantus, a longer-acting and gentler insulin than Vetsulin. She still grumbled a bit at injection time, but did not attempt to avoid the injection altogether. She was also much less withdrawn. The problem with Vetsulin - as you have seen already - is that it can leave kitty in unregulated numbers for over half the hours in each cycle. If you were to compare typical BG curves for a cat on Vetsulin versus a cat on a longer-acting, gentler insulin it would be like looking at a cross-section of the Himalayas versus a cross-section of gently rolling hills.

Cats are smart cookies and, although they probably think that we humans are absolutely bonkers for seemingly wanting to use their ears for pincushions, they can very quickly associate the testing activity with feeling better and, once that connection is made, the testing can get much easier in a relatively short space of time. Giving lots of praise, fuss and - most important of all - freeze-dried protein or other FD-friendly treats as part of the BG test routine is a great way to make it far less stressful for both you and your kitty. Some cats (my own included) actually start hovering around their test stations looking for treats once they get used to the routine. Indeed, in many cases the ritual of testing can markedly intensify the bond between cats and caregivers, because they know the testing has something to do with feeling better. They learn that it is being done out of love. cat_pet_icon

Secondary monitoring helps enormously when BG testing is tricky. I see from your post that you're monitoring fluid intake/output. That's a very useful (though not precise) yardstick for assessing how well/poorly your cat is regulated. BJ's signature link has great tips on tools to help you with other monitoring methods.

Finally, it's worth noting that regulation doesn't usually happen overnight. Most kitties need time for their bodies to get used to operating at healthy BG numbers again. Slow and steady is the name of the game. :smile:
 
Thank you all very much for the information and detailed responses. When our cat was diagnosed the vet did not give us any suggestions at all and definitely didn't suggest that there even were any other insulins that could be used in cats. The vet also told us nothing about testing the cat's blood sugar. The vet obviously knew what kind of food the cat has been eating since we have to purchase it at the office and she had been on it for so long. It was only through looking online that I discovered we should not continue with the dry food and that in fact the dry food may have contributed to the diabetes.

As I have been reading and learning more and more I realize how little information we actually obtained while at the vet. Plus just the mere fact of going to the vet is extremely traumatic for our cat so the thought of switching vets is stressful too. The vet we have always gone to is only 4 miles away and the short distance is really the only reason we have stuck with this guy. The cat simply can't tolerate a longer car ride. *sigh*

This whole diabetes cat drama has been extremely stressful. It takes both my husband and I to deal with blood sugar testing and insulin injections in the morning and night. This means my poor husband has to get up and hour earlier than normal so that we can deal with the cat before I leave for work. This has not been making for very happy mornings for anyone. The cat is completely tortured. I hear everyone saying it gets easier but it is tough to handle the hissing, yeowling, holding her down and the struggle. She just flat out hates any kind of restricting of her movements and is in no way a "lap" kitty so we can't really sneak up on her or anything. She is very defensive- always has been and very easily upset. She likes to do what she wants when she wants and wants no part of any routine.

We will work on finding some kind of special treat she likes to use as a reward. One thing she does like is string cheese so I could try that. I get what you are saying about doing the testing every hour or two to get a better idea of when the insulin kicks in, but the thought of testing anymore makes both my husband and I shudder. He actually said there is no way he is doing that to the cat- said the cat will have PTSD.

I watched a ton of videos of cats online getting tested and it is the furthest thing from how our cat behaves. So, definitely a work in progress. On a good note the cat doesn't act sick at all. She still plays and runs around. I will definitely explore insulin options and try to see if we can find a vet with at least a bit more knowledge. We don't even have any kind of follow up and they never even called to check how the insulin was going, etc.

Thank you again for the information and I am determined we can get this under control at some point.
 
While you work on home testing, you may find some of the Secondary Monitoring Tools in my signature link help in assessing her.

If you can find a reward she likes - it need not be food - brushing or toys do it for some cats -
you might work on desensitizing her to the carrier. The first step of that is just leaving the carrier out with a comfy towel in it, maybe with a pinch of catnip in it, or a spritz of Feliway. Move it around to sunny locations, or a spot with a view outdoors. It'll likely take a few weeks for her to decide she wants to sleep in it. When that happens, we can give you a new step to try.
 
When I was in college I'd take my cat home to visit my parents and while she hated the carrier, but provide her with a blanket/towel to curl up under she calms down and stayed hidden the entire trip.
 
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