On information overload, cat just dx yesterday!

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thepeach80

thepeach80

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Hi, I'm Jennifer, and our cat Arnold was just dx yesterday w/ feline diabetes. I started reading online today and I feel like that might have been bad b/c I'm on overload now and am getting confused just from so much info. A little info on us. Arnold is living w/ my mother in law right now b/c we had given him to her a few years ago when we moved to an apt and after my allergy tests said I'm highly allergic to cats. We have moved again and taking him back is a possibility, but she's alone and he has provided great companionship for her, except for his peeing everywhere. :sad: I've read everywhere that this will get better w/ treatment for the diabetes. At this point she's going to try and take care of him, but I have my concerns. Would it be better for him to come live w/ us till his meds are at least regulated? She gives him his shot before work at 7-8am or so and then isn't home again till 5. I'm a stay at home mom currently so I have more at home time than she does. Would that completely throw him off if we moved him like that and then moved him back?

The vet wasn't offering up much info yesterday and we didn't know the questions to ask as we've never dealt w/ anything like this before so now we're overflowing w/ questions and aren't sure where to start! She gave him Prescription Diet MD, wet and dry since MIL had been feeding him both. He's supposed to get 1/2 C dry and 1/2 can wet each day w/ 1 unit insulin 2x a day. I've read the food she gave him might not be his best option and he's on Vetsulin. I've been reading about home testing and am familiar w/ doing this on myself while pregnant (pregnancy hypoglycemia) so I understand this and am thinking it will help us get things under control quicker. From what I can tell, he should've been taken to the vet a long time ago for this problem and I feel awful about it. He's supposed to go back on Monday but I think I'll change his appt to this Friday instead.

For your cats, what is a normal schedule like? He's used to free feeding and MIL LOVES to make sure he has lots of food so she's having problems in her head w/ this new diet for him and is sure he hates it (though we just started yesterday) and that he'll pee on her carpet more b/c he's mad at her. Ugh. I read all about doing the curve and such at home and it sounds like it would help us establish a schedule for him? I'm assuimg many poeple have diabetic cats and aren't home all day to watch them? Thanks so much for helping, just trying to do what's best for Arnie. He's about 9yo and 15# if that matters at all.
 
First off, ditch the Prescription Diet food. It's not great quality, and it's actually pretty bad for diabetics (though the cat food companies have spent a lot of money convincing vets otherwise). Your vet should take back any unopened cans and possibly the bag as well (you can just say that Arnold refuses to eat it).

Go here to Janet and Binky's food charts http://www.felinediabetes.com/diabetic-cat-diets.htm. Print them out, take them to the store, and buy a selection of food. Assuming Arnold has no other health issues, you're looking for canned or raw foods that are less than 10% carbs. Get a selection, bring them home, and have Arnold taste-test them. You're looking for food(s) that Arnold likes, that are less than 10% carbs, that fit into your budget, and that are easy to find in your area.

BTW, cats can't digest food properly without insulin, either produced by their own body or injected into them. Unregulated diabetics are literally starving. Tell your mom to go back to feeding Arnold as much food as he wants; his appetite will drop back to normal once the diabetes comes under control.


Second, insulin: good that your vet is starting you on one unit twice a day -- *way* too often we see folks started at a higher dose. Bad that your vet started you on Vetsulin; after a series of problems and in consultation with the FDA, the manufacturer is puling it from the US market. Here's a link to one of the posts about it http://felinediabetes.com/FDMB/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=311. Ask your vet if you can try a different insulin. Two of the popular insulins for new folks to try are Lantus (glargine) and Levemir (determir). The insulins are available in vials or cartridges; you're interested in the cartridges because they're a better buy in the long run.


It's great that you've read up on testing. In case you've not seen them, there're a bunch of great tips and videos and stuff on it here http://felinediabetes.com/FDMB/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=287.


It's also great that you know about hypos. You can read about the symptoms and treatment of hypoglycemia in cats here http://felinediabetes.com/FDMB/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=1122. Read it, print it out and tape it to the side of the fridge; when you suspect a hypo is not the time to find that your internet connection is down. There's also this post here about making sure you have the tools on hand to treat a hypo http://felinediabetes.com/FDMB/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=2354


Lastly, has anyone talked to you about testing Arnold's urine for ketones? Ketones are a not-common side effect that some unregulated diabetics have. While they're not common, when they do occur, it's possible for them to turn Very Bad pretty quickly. Small amounts of ketones may be treatable at home; large amounts of ketones may require hospitalisation at a 24-hour care facility. It's really good if you can check for ketones at home, just to catch them early if they do occur at all.

To test for ketones, go to the diabetes section of your local drugstore and pick up some ketostix (some places apparently keep them behind the counter; I've always found them in the aisle). I've no bought any for a long time, but I think it's about $15-20 for 90 strips. You stick one of the strips in fresh urine and watch to see if the strip changes color.


Any questions you have -- and you're going to have lots of questions! -- please feel free to post them, no matter how 'stupid' you feel they are. On this board, there's no such thing as a stupid question and there's no such thing as caring for your cat too much. We've all been through the same thing, and everyone is here for each other. You and your mom can get Arnold through this, and we can help you help him.

-- Jean and her Gwyn
 
thepeach80 said:
Hi, I'm Jennifer, and our cat Arnold was just dx yesterday w/ feline diabetes. I started reading online today and I feel like that might have been bad b/c I'm on overload now and am getting confused just from so much info. A little info on us. Arnold is living w/ my mother in law right now b/c we had given him to her a few years ago when we moved to an apt and after my allergy tests said I'm highly allergic to cats. We have moved again and taking him back is a possibility, but she's alone and he has provided great companionship for her, except for his peeing everywhere. :sad: I've read everywhere that this will get better w/ treatment for the diabetes. At this point she's going to try and take care of him, but I have my concerns. Would it be better for him to come live w/ us till his meds are at least regulated? She gives him his shot before work at 7-8am or so and then isn't home again till 5. I'm a stay at home mom currently so I have more at home time than she does. Would that completely throw him off if we moved him like that and then moved him back?
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Hi Jennifer, and welcome to the best place to help Arnold (and yourself)! :) We have all been where you are, and we know how scary and overwhelming it can be. There is definitely a lot to learn, as you've already discovered. Just take it one thing at a time and remember that we are here to help you. You are the best advocate for Arnold, and you will be at your best when you arm yourself with knowledge, but you don't have to do it all at once.

As Arnold's BG (blood glucose) gets under control, his excessive urination and constant hunger will abate. When diabetics are unregulated, they feel like they are hungry all the time because their body can't process the nutrients from food correctly. This is why they can eat and eat and eat and still lose weight. It is okay to feed him more than normal (without going crazy with food) for the time being. His appetite will level off eventually.

As far as if moving him with you and then back to your mom's will be bad for him, that depends on his temperament. If he gets nervous and stressed easily and doesn't handle transitions well, then it will be hard on him. However, as you mentioned, it is in his best interest to have someone watching out for him as you could since you are home. HOWEVER, lots of people here work full time and can't be home with their kitty during the day/night, so it is definitely doable. It comes down to what you think is best for Arnold as well as what is going to be the easiest on all people involved. If you think your mom is going to have a hard time with his diet and checking his BG, then it might be best for him to come stay with you for awhile.

thepeach80 said:
The vet wasn't offering up much info yesterday and we didn't know the questions to ask as we've never dealt w/ anything like this before so now we're overflowing w/ questions and aren't sure where to start! She gave him Prescription Diet MD, wet and dry since MIL had been feeding him both. He's supposed to get 1/2 C dry and 1/2 can wet each day w/ 1 unit insulin 2x a day. I've read the food she gave him might not be his best option and he's on Vetsulin. I've been reading about home testing and am familiar w/ doing this on myself while pregnant (pregnancy hypoglycemia) so I understand this and am thinking it will help us get things under control quicker. From what I can tell, he should've been taken to the vet a long time ago for this problem and I feel awful about it. He's supposed to go back on Monday but I think I'll change his appt to this Friday instead.
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You are correct that the MD is not the best food option for him. The ingredients are not wonderful, and it is quite expensive. Most people here feed low carb canned food. Janet and Binky have a food list which will tell you the carb values for most foods on the market. You can't find this info on the can, so this chart is really a lifesaver. You can find that here: http://binkyspage.tripod.com/CanFoodNew.html
Fancy Feast, Friskies, and Wellness are popular choices here, but any of them on that list which are 10% carbs or less are just fine. It's best not to feed fish every day. It has a high phosphorous content and is a known allergen for kitties. Additionally, some kitties who get fish every day develop food aversion, in which they won't eat anything that's NOT fish.

Dry food is not good for kitties, and you can read about why here: http://www.catinfo.org/

That is wonderful that you are familiar with testing and the reasons why it's necessary. Home testing will be your greatest tool in keeping Arnold healthy and safe. Don't beat yourself up about not recognizing the problem sooner. That's water under the bridge, and what is important now is that you are doing everything you can to help Arnold feel better as soon as possible. :)

Did your vet tell you about the FDA warnings regarding Vetsulin? I am quite surprised he prescribed that insulin. You can read about the issues with it here: http://www.fda.gov/AnimalVeterinary/new ... 188752.htm

I would strongly suggest switching to another insulin, or at least discussing a switch with your vet. If you go to the Insulin Support Groups here, you can read about each type of insulin and how they work. Just click on each group (Lantus, Levemir, PZI, etc) and read the informational stickies at the top of each page. Feel free to post questions about that specific insulin within each ISG.

thepeach80 said:
For your cats, what is a normal schedule like? He's used to free feeding and MIL LOVES to make sure he has lots of food so she's having problems in her head w/ this new diet for him and is sure he hates it (though we just started yesterday) and that he'll pee on her carpet more b/c he's mad at her. Ugh. I read all about doing the curve and such at home and it sounds like it would help us establish a schedule for him? I'm assuimg many poeple have diabetic cats and aren't home all day to watch them? Thanks so much for helping, just trying to do what's best for Arnie. He's about 9yo and 15# if that matters at all.
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Lots of people here free feed canned food. You can get timed feeders so that portions are released throughout the day/night. This will prevent him from pigging out on all of it at once and ensure that he has food available throughout his insulin cycle. Many cats will eat when they feel their BG going low, so this is a good way to make sure he has enough to eat but isn't gorging himself.

Please ask all the questions you have, and remember that you are doing great for Arnold already. You have so much knowledge and information in such a short amount of time; you are doing AWESOME! :)
 
Hi Jennifer! Welcome to FDMB! Thanks for coming here and asking your questions. You have done a lot of great research oit counds like and sounds like you have a basic plan down- just needs fine tuning. ;-)

Wondering how close you are to MIL's house- could you pop over a couple times a day for spot checks?

For food- you could do much better than the MD as you have found out. There is a food chart here called Janet&Binkys Food chart that will list many canned foods and the carb/protein levels, etc.

For our diabetics- and most cats, barring other health concerns, we suggest less than 10% carbs, around 50% protein or better and watch the fat is 40% or less...not always easy to do, so maybe just finding some wet canned food under 10% carbs is a good start for now.

Many folks here feed certain varieities of Fancy Feast, Friskies or even 9-Lives.

We highly suggest avoiding kibble as it is difficult for cats to absorb nutrients from not to mention usually pasked full of carbs! Exceptions are EVO and Wellness Core, but even then it is still kibble.

The Vetsulin is under a "recall" of sorts...it isn't actually being recalled- though IMO it should be- they are saying, instead that you should find another insulin b/c of the inconsistencies in vetsulin.

Some choices are Levemir, Lantus, ProZinc or Humulin N....Many cats here are using Levemir or Lantus right now and getting great results and many are even able to come off of insulin in short order.

The L insulins are NOT cheap, but many of us find it worth the price for how it works so well.

Others will be along shortly to answer more questions, but this should get you started :thumbup

Welcome, again, and please feel free to ask anything or let us know how we can help! (((hugs)))
 
Thanks so much! I was reading other posts after I posted this and learned a lot, including the little tid bit about no more Vetsulin, wonderful. Ugh. I wonder if the DR will take the bottle back? I'm mad she even gave it to us now and it was $40. It was almost $300 at the vet yesterday and w/ 4 small children, we're not exactly made of $$$. :cry:

It's good to know he can be free fed more, MIL will like that better. I'll look at that list and pic out some food. He doesn't like seafood it seems so no problems there, lol. I also read about the Liv a Little? treats. Is that the preferred kind? I want something he can have when needed. MIL was not thrilled about giving him shots, testing his BG may push her over the edge, but we're all still learning.

I live on the other side of town from my MIL. We go over there sometimes, but it's not everyday and definitely not a few times a day. We'll see the vet again on Friday I think and then that'll have given MIL a few days of this so we'll talk again this weekend and see how we all feel about the siutation. Thanks again, I'm learning so much just from reading the other posts! It's nice to know I'm not alone in the newly dx catagory.
 
Hi from another Jennifer !

How old are your kids? As another mom I assume going back and forth won't work, so if you think he might be ok with the change take him home, or teach your mom if you think she might be up to it...
 
Current vet only carries Vetsulin and will only be switching to something different when they're forced to basically. Time for a new vet? We have no attachments there, it's just the closest one to MIL. Grrrrr.
 
thepeach80 said:
Current vet only carries Vetsulin and will only be switching to something different when they're forced to basically. Time for a new vet? We have no attachments there, it's just the closest one to MIL. Grrrrr.
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I would say that if you have made the decision that you don't want Arnold on Vetsulin and your current vet will not prescribe anything else, then yes, it's time to look for a new one. Don't burn any bridges with your vet until you have a new one lined up. Be sure to get a copy of ALL of Arnold's records to take with you to the new vet. You can call around and ask what insulin they prescribe and what their treatment philosophy is regarding diabetics. I don't know how many choices of vets there are where you live, but if there are plenty, you might as well figure out what is important to you and then look for one with all or most of those qualities. Some vets, for example, do not support or encourage home testing. Some (most?) will shove the prescription food down your throat all day, but if pressed will say that you can feed what you want, while others are absolutely adamant that you ONLY feed the rx food.

Again, if you have many to choose from, you can afford to be picky. :) Make up a list of questions and just start calling around in the morning. :) With 4 kids that young, I know you must have nothing but spare time on your hands. :lol:
 
Thankfully I'm in the largest city in the state so vets are a dime a dozen. I've already asked for reccomendations on my facebook page, lol. The boys go to school so I'm down to 2 during the day and w/ it being so cold lately, we've been home a LOT! I'll start writing down my questions tonight and keep them for Friday's appt. The vet is already aware of our situation w/ MIL and the possibility we'll want to switch vets just to go to someone closer to she's at least aware we may switch so that helps the awkwardness.
 
Sherri & Stash found the "don't start newbies on Vetsulin" notice. It's on the Vetsulin manufacturer's website, here http://www.vetsulin.com/dog-owner/Vet_ProductAlert.aspx.


ETA: if, for whatever reason, you're happy with your current vet or it's too much trouble to switch at the moment, I'd try printing out the notice from the Vetsulin manufacturer and giving it to the vet and explaining that you're not comfortable using Vetsulin because the manufacturer is recommending against it, and then asking about switching to other-insulin-of-your-choice. If you're happy enough to go to a different vet, that's fine too, just thought I'd mention that the notification from the manufacturer gives you some leverage with the vet regarding your choices.
 
JJ & Gwyn said:
Sherri & Stash found the "don't start newbies on Vetsulin" notice. It's on the Vetsulin manufacturer's website, here http://www.vetsulin.com/dog-owner/Vet_ProductAlert.aspx.


ETA: if, for whatever reason, you're happy with your current vet or it's too much trouble to switch at the moment, I'd try printing out the notice from the Vetsulin manufacturer and giving it to the vet and explaining that you're not comfortable using Vetsulin because the manufacturer is recommending against it, and then asking about switching to other-insulin-of-your-choice. If you're happy enough to go to a different vet, that's fine too, just thought I'd mention that the notification from the manufacturer gives you some leverage with the vet regarding your choices.
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That's probably just a good karma thing to do since she's going in on Friday anyways. Even if they switch, maybe it'll help other kitties that go to that vet in the future.
 
Stopping in to say hello!!!

Calliope was on lantus and did very well, but every cat is different, of course. The recommended insulins have a good rate of remission in newly diagnosed kitties. Maybe you could take Arnold to get things started since you're at home and in between raising 4 kids, you can test a bit more at the beginning and see how things go.

Not so long ago, we had a mbr who had difficulties testing. Another mbr took her kitty for about a month and really worked hard at it. The story had a good ending as the kitty went off the juice. That doesn't always happen, but just getting kitty in a regulation stage would be helpful and then you could go from there. This is just a suggestion to consider. I know your Mom would really miss Arnold, so I imagine that this is tough decision. In the long run, it might turn out really great, though.


You've gotten lots of great info. "Overwhelmed" is just how we all felt. I thought I'd never make it through this with all the info etc..., but I did and so have so many of us, because we came here and got so much support. People here will help you every step of the way. There's always someone around and it's a great comfort.
 
Thanks, I think that settles it. I'll talk to my husband, but I'd feel better if we took him at least at first to get food and meds sorted out. Maybe HE can tell his mom, lol. This will give her time to get her carpets really cleaned too so it'll be win/win. ;-) You all have been amazing. I'm still peeved at the vet, extremely peeved.
 
Another plus might be that you can learn how to shoot and test and follow the numbers. Then, you can start teaching her and she can learn in her own time. Once she sees you doing it, it might not be as overwhelming to her. Just another point to make. :-D
 
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