Oliver 2/5 AMPS ‘HI’, 428@+2, 267@“+6, 318@ +9,PMBS 505,422@+2

Oliver, you've made your point! You're as high as you can get...so please come down to some lower numbers:cat:.

Welcome to the LLB forum! I didn't get a chance to welcome you yesterday. So glad that you will be posting here.
We include a link each day to our previous day's condo for continuity/ease of access to information on our kitties. Here is yours from yesterday: https://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB...-551-11-5-515-pmps-2-358.242604/#post-2734399

Have you decided which dosing method you will be following tight regulation or start low, go slow? I see you increased Oliver's insulin last night. Best of luck with the new dose!
 
Butters & Lyla said:
Oliver, you've made your point! You're as high as you can get...so please come down to some lower numbers:cat:.

Welcome to the LLB forum! I didn't get a chance to welcome you yesterday. So glad that you will be posting here.
We include a link each day to our previous day's condo for continuity/ease of access to information on our kitties. Here is yours from yesterday: https://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB...-551-11-5-515-pmps-2-358.242604/#post-2734399

Have you decided which dosing method you will be following tight regulation or start low, go slow? I see you increased Oliver's insulin last night. Best of luck with the new dose!
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Oliver always has a point to make! ;)
Thank you for the link! I know better, just am kinda spacey this morning I guess. I have just been following the advice here and need to read more about the two dosing methods. Thank you for this!
 
Sounds like Oliver and Butters are cut from the same cloth:joyful:. My girl is drama on top of drama:rolleyes: when she has a point to make.
The people here have so much experience and have helped so many kitties, including Butters. I don't know where we would be without them. You are in excellent hands:).
 
I personally cannot give you an exact number of points for the drop. Last night, I'd have gotten one more test before bed (I usually do this at +3.5, or +4) to see whether it was even lower than the +2 or around the same or higher. If the same or higher, then I would've stopped testing. Maybe others would do something different, though. I think it's possible that Oliver could have been sliding down/breaking a bounce last night, but impossible to know for sure. You don't have much data yet and there are some cats who slide from black to green in one cycle. Not saying this is Oliver. I just think we need more data.
 
thebigfuzz said:
looks like Oliver is bouncing from last night.
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I don’t see this as a bounce. He’s just high and flat. I agree with Lyla that more data is needed.

At this point, we do not need to worry about what dosing method you are using or are going to use. We might need to fast track his dose back up a little bit. That involves raising the dose after every four cycles. The more data you are able to get so we know how low he is getting, the easier it is for us to be confident fast tracking is safe.

That doesn’t mean you have to test every two hours but the preshots, a +2/+3, and then a +6 or so or before bed help.
 
Here's the info I was given originally about +2 tests - might be helpful:
  • If the +2 is about the same as the Pre-shot, usually they're going to have a fairly "normal" cycle...slowly dropping to nadir and then slowly heading back up until the next PS
  • If it's higher than the PS, that can indicate the beginning of a bounce and those are the cycles where you can usually get by without testing as much
  • If the +2 is lower than the PS, that's your "early warning"....those are the cycles where it's important to try to get more tests in...but if you can't, you might want to leave some higher carb food down for him
So last night, Olive fell into the third category above. And you are totally right that more data will help - you're doing plenty of testing so you'll get there.
 
JaxBenji said:
Here's the info I was given originally about +2 tests - might be helpful:
  • If the +2 is about the same as the Pre-shot, usually they're going to have a fairly "normal" cycle...slowly dropping to nadir and then slowly heading back up until the next PS
  • If it's higher than the PS, that can indicate the beginning of a bounce and those are the cycles where you can usually get by without testing as much
  • If the +2 is lower than the PS, that's your "early warning"....those are the cycles where it's important to try to get more tests in...but if you can't, you might want to leave some higher carb food down for him
So last night, Olive fell into the third category above. And you are totally right that more data will help - you're doing plenty of testing so you'll get there.
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It’s so confusing, because when Oliver went into his horrible hypo seizure last Saturday, he was at +2.5 after a dose he had been getting for days. I can’t wait until I have more information to understand this guy!! Thank you’
 
Did you have a preshot number for him that day? I don't see one on your SS so assuming not, getting a preshot number may have told you either that it wasn't safe to shoot, or that you needed to monitor even more closely (ie get tests at +0.5 and/or +1 and go from there).
Will have to dig up an explanation for you on how the cat pancreas and liver works....I will at some point if others don't first.
One thing is: Pancreatic beta cells can regenerate and start producing more insulin. And then they can also die off again and the cat can produce less insulin. I think I have this right but will wait to be corrected if I don't! But this just makes for some unpredictability in numbers.
 
Butters & Lyla said:
Did you have a preshot number for him that day? I don't see one on your SS so assuming not, getting a preshot number may have told you either that it wasn't safe to shoot, or that you needed to monitor even more closely (ie get tests at +0.5 and/or +1 and go from there).
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No. And I now understand the risks involved with that and will never do it again. I was new to home testing at that point and had only had my monitor a short time.
 
Shelley & Oliver said:
No. And I now understand the risks involved with that and will never do it again. I was new to home testing at that point and had only had my monitor a short time.
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My vet was adamantly against hometesting and it took me a few days to find this group and get help with it. What happened to Oliver could have happened to Butters. It's terrifying and I'm so sorry you and he went through that:bighug:
 
Butters & Lyla said:
My vet was adamantly against hometesting and it took me a few days to find this group and get help with it. What happened to Oliver could have happened to Butters. It's terrifying and I'm so sorry you and he went through that:bighug:
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My vet did encourage me to home test, but I ordered, and waited for the meter to come before I started. At first, I was so nervous it made me a wreck so I didn’t do it often. Now, my husband wraps him in the car burrito and he looks at me like: just get it over with lady! He is very calm now, helps we aren’t freaking out every time we do it. ;)
 
Bounces can also happen from fast drops. Last night Oliver dropped over 150 points in two hours, likely fast enough cause a bounce. But those early fast drops seem to be part of Oliver's way of doing things. When are you feeding him? I'm wondering if feeding a mini meal around +1 or +1.5 might slow down those fast drops.

I also agree with Marje that he's likely underdosed.
 
Wendy&Neko said:
Bounces can also happen from fast drops. Last night Oliver dropped over 150 points in two hours, likely fast enough cause a bounce. But those early fast drops seem to be part of Oliver's way of doing things. When are you feeding him? I'm wondering if feeding a mini meal around +1 or +1.5 might slow down those fast drops.

I also agree with Marje that he's likely underdosed.
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He is a free feeder, so I pull his food up in the middle of the night, and give it back to him right after test so he will have good in his tummy at shot time 1/2 hour later. So he has about 1/2 hour to eat before I give him his shot.
So routinely, I pull his food 2 hours before his glucose tests.
And, I give him his bowl back right after his test.
I can’t recall if I gave it right back to him last night because I knew I was going to take a +2. I might have held it until the next test. That’s not something I usually do, there is usually plenty of time for him to eat. What’s your recommendation? We are getting ready to test him right now so the spreadsheet will update soon.
 
Shelley & Oliver said:
He is a free feeder, so I pull his food up in the middle of the night, and give it back to him right after test so he will have good in his tummy at shot time 1/2 hour later. So he has about 1/2 hour to eat before I give him his shot.
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You don't need to do that. Most of us test, feed, and shoot all within 10-15 minutes. There is no need to wait 1/2 hour to shoot. Lantus is a gentler insulin and doesn't onset for a couple hours after the shot. Many give the shot while the cat's head is in the bowl. With the earlier non depot style insulins, it was important to make sure the cat ate so most people waited the 1/2 hour.

You also don't need to pick up food before tests during the cycle. When people are new, we suggest picking up food a couple hours before shot time, so the preshot number is not influenced by food and you know it's safe to shoot. Not such a bit deal if kitty is in high numbers, but is if they are lower. Over time as you gather data and experience, you won't need to lift the food before preshot, once you know how much of a boost Oliver gets by food.
 
Wendy&Neko said:
You don't need to do that. Most of us test, feed, and shoot all within 10-15 minutes. There is no need to wait 1/2 hour to shoot. Lantus is a gentler insulin and doesn't onset for a couple hours after the shot. Many give the shot while the cat's head is in the bowl. With the earlier non depot style insulins, it was important to make sure the cat ate so most people waited the 1/2 hour.

You also don't need to pick up food before tests during the cycle. When people are new, we suggest picking up food a couple hours before shot time, so the preshot number is not influenced by food and you know it's safe to shoot. Not such a bit deal if kitty is in high numbers, but is if they are lower. Over time as you gather data and experience, you won't need to lift the food before preshot, once you know how much of a boost Oliver gets by food.
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Thank you! This will be easier, for sure. I will get the hang of it yet!
 
Nice to see the +6 yellow number today!

Good for you, getting some data today :)

Have you started to check out some of the stickies at the top of the forum? It’s a lot to take in, but some amazing info in there! So many of us refer back to the stickies time and time again.
 
thebigfuzz said:
Nice to see the +6 yellow number today!

Good for you, getting some data today :)

Have you started to check out some of the stickies at the top of the forum? It’s a lot to take in, but some amazing info in there! So many of us refer back to the stickies time and time again.
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Yes, I even checked his blood my myself when hubs wasn’t available! I did start reading stickies, but honestly, it’s all so new to me that I think I will have to read them more than once. :)
 
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