Ok, yet again, another question about the big switcheroo

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Olliecat

Olliecat

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Ok - I'm just about out of the *love to hate it* vetsulin. Vicky or other Lev users - and maybe this should be in the insulin support group IDK but here I am with some not so bad numbers on Ollie recently and I'm about to make a change. Is that really a good idea? I've battled with myself over it about getting the numbers to stay in a better range for longer (based on the deep dive I know vetsulin gives vs. lev lasting longer) but I also know how it (vetsulin) works and I don't want to send Oliver into a climb whilst I try to figure out how Lev is going to work with him. My vet, who is being wonderful btw, is calling in a script tomorrow for the flex pens since that is all that is available in my area besides the vial and I've got hocks sending me some of the u100 needles. Am I really doing the right thing?

signed - not so confident yet in Camden. :-) lol nailbite_smile

Roz
 
I agree, developing the confidence as the caregiver is huge. I just switched from Humulin N to Latus and I share your angst in switching. Let's hope some of the Levemir users will respond & boost your confidence so go ahead and re post over there. It seems to me that when we are cautious about what we are doing (paying extra special attention like you are doing), things generally go OK. From all I have read on the board, Lantus & Levemir are the way to go...
 
I switched two kitties from PZI BCP to Levemir and the adjustment for me was really hard, but the cats loved it. Misty has since passed from stomach cancer, but before that she was a different cat. She loved the Lev.

Tucker loves it too. With PZI I would shoot the numbers. If he was high he got more insulin, if he was low he got less. What happened was Tucker was up and down and that up and down feeling made him cranky.

Once we switched and I learned not to change his dose around, his orange coat got darker, he looked healthier, his head wasn't scrunched like he had a head ache. Overall he is a nicer cat which to me means a happier healthier cat.

With Lev, he doesn't have the ups and downs. It took me time to unlearn and some late nights of wondering how the insulin was working, but it was all worth it.

Today his spreadsheet is not up to date because he did have a possible stroke about a month ago and had to start steroids. It's been a struggle for me to get his numbers back down, but with gentle increases in his dose, he went from .5 U BID to 1.5U BID in increments of .25U each time, he is now in the 100 range again.

I would encourage you to read the general information for Lantus and Levemir on the ISGs and definitely switch.

I used PZI BCP and Idexx for Tucker, Sadie and Misty and now will never use anything but Lev for my Tucker. When I do adopt another diabetic if he/she is new to FD, I'd probably start on Lantus.
 
The track record for getting kitties off the juice is better for Levemir than Vetsulin. Sheila's Beau was on Vetsulin for 2 years and within 3 months on Levemir he went OTJ.
I'm not guaranteeing that will happen for Oliver, but the possibility is better with Levemir and worth the short term issues of determining dose and temporary higher numbers.

It will be worth the switch for you and Oliver. Perhaps if you didn't have the resource of FDMB it would be more difficult, but there are very experienced members here who can help you transition. Please don't feel too overwhelmed by switching, many members have done it successfully and seen positive results for their cat.

Hope that helps ease your decision.
 
Thanks everyone - I did go ahead and go to the pharmacy to put in my "order" :-). I too have been shooting numbers and am getting low enough bg's lately that I worry about giving him any because I know vetsulin sends him on a dive. Anyway **WOW** now I have to get over the sticker shock! Holy cow! The place I'm getting it from is $180 for a 5 pack of 3ml flex pens. SHEESH!! Ok, I'm done now. Fortunately I've done enough reading up on it to know that it will last me a good long time...

I'm going to start him at 0.5u since that is what I've been giving him in vetsulin lately with onlt a couple exceptions. I'll be starting in about a week - I need to make sure I'm home for a whole day to do a good first curve.

Do I need to do the curve the first day? I'm assuming I will continue to test at 2hr increments until I fully understand how he is reacting to it.

I built some new charts last night and the show he has been swinging less between the am/pm ps readings and they're both trending nicely downward. I'm cautiously optomistic about his near term future and the (kack of) continued need for juice. :-|
 
Olliecat said:
Thanks everyone - I did go ahead and go to the pharmacy to put in my "order" :-). I too have been shooting numbers and am getting low enough bg's lately that I worry about giving him any because I know vetsulin sends him on a dive. Anyway **WOW** now I have to get over the sticker shock! Holy cow! The place I'm getting it from is $180 for a 5 pack of 3ml flex pens. SHEESH!! Ok, I'm done now. Fortunately I've done enough reading up on it to know that it will last me a good long time...
Click to expand...

You're correct that they will last a long time. And you're actually very lucky at $180 - I just paid $195 after the pharmacy found me a discount deal or it would have been over $200.

Olliecat said:
I'm going to start him at 0.5u since that is what I've been giving him in vetsulin lately with onlt a couple exceptions. I'll be starting in about a week - I need to make sure I'm home for a whole day to do a good first curve.
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You are getting very good numbers on .25U of Vetsulin. Please consider starting at only .25U of Levemir.

Olliecat said:
Do I need to do the curve the first day? I'm assuming I will continue to test at 2hr increments until I fully understand how he is reacting to it.
Click to expand...

As low as he's going on that little Vetsulin, yes, please get as many values as you can on first day of Levemir. But don't be surprised if you don't see an obvious response the first day. It's also important to be spot checking for as many days after as you can because you are seeing 100s on Vetsulin. His response to Levemir may be fairly quick.

Olliecat said:
I built some new charts last night and the show he has been swinging less between the am/pm ps readings and they're both trending nicely downward. I'm cautiously optomistic about his near term future and the (kack of) continued need for juice. :-|
Click to expand...

Me too!
 
You got it - I'll start at 0.25u. His PMPS today was in the 90's but that is most likely because he hadn't eaten all day as there was no one home to let him into the room and snack...

I'll keep everyone posted on when I start and how it is going.

Roz
 
Well - he is at 96 this morning so no shot again. Since I won't be home for him to snack again today I'm not going to bother testing now to shoot any numbers from the food. I'm picking up his Lev today, but hopefully (please please please) I won't need any more than one vial of it to keep on hand in case something goes awry.. Woo hoo! keep your fingers crossed everyone!

Roz and Ollie
 

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Olliecat said:
You got it - I'll start at 0.25u. His PMPS today was in the 90's but that is most likely because he hadn't eaten all day as there was no one home to let him into the room and snack...

I'll keep everyone posted on when I start and how it is going.

Roz
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Wow, I don't know that you're going to need even that much! Or any at all for that matter. He seems to be able to hold his BGs within normal levels for a longer period of time.

It would be best to decide on a number where his pancreas needs some help, perhaps over 150. But if he can coast below 120 without insulin, then he may not need the extra help from it.

Keep us posted!
 
HI there -

My fingers are crossed right along with yours!! Things (knocking on wood) seem to be going just perfectly!

Glad you're switching over to Levemir - i made the switch myself (from PZI) and couldn't be happier! I'm hoping that you're not going to need much of it :-D

Will be following your progress - just wanted to let you know how great i think you're doing!! Rock on u! -Michele and Molly
 
Olliecat said:
Well - he is at 96 this morning so no shot again. Since I won't be home for him to snack again today I'm not going to bother testing now to shoot any numbers from the food. I'm picking up his Lev today, but hopefully (please please please) I won't need any more than one vial of it to keep on hand in case something goes awry.. Woo hoo! keep your fingers crossed everyone!
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Nice number this AM and last night....that is encouraging for sure with no insulin.

It would be nice to see exactly how long it is taking for him to come down on his own after you feed him. To do that more spot checks would be needed, but work and life sometimes don't always allow for that. It 'looks like' from the limited info you are able to gather here that he really wants to go off the juice. :-D

Exactly how much is he eating everyday?

So just curious, did you get the flex pens or the vial? ETA saw you got the pens.
 
I try to make sure that the cats get what is recommended by the can since I was new to feeding only wet (and on a "schedule" instead of free feeding for that matter) which was 1/2 can per 8lbs of body weight. I don't think any of them are eating that much, but they pretty much eat as much as they want when they want. I would guess that he eats about 3/4 of a 12.5 oz. can a day spread out over the whole day. Some days he may eat more but certainly never more than 1 can (which is about right for his body weight based on what the can says).

I'll see if I can't get some waining numbers tonight to see when and how well he is dropping back down after eating. He ate right after I checked his blood this evening, so I'll do some additional spot checks tonight to make sure he's still doing well and check his activity.

Still crossing my fingers! I'll keep you all posted. ******antijinx*****
dancing_cat
Happy dance!!!!!!!!!!
 
Ok - getting happier - I've had 3 green readings (might as well be four with the only non-green one being 100) today!

It looks as tho we are on our way! Still don't want to get too happy though! party_cat

Go Ollie go!
 
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