Ok help please..Im new here..just diagnosed kitty

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jackiesmom

Member Since 2012
Hello!
Glad to meet you. My 9 year old tabby was just diagnosed with diabetes. He has lost a ton of weight and his insulin is up to 4 at each dosage.

We have been buying food from the vet and its costing us a fortune. Its like 34 bucks for a 5 pound bag of DM and each can is 2 dollars. We just simply cant afford this.

We would like to get Jacks insulin down. I have been doing some research and I have found that all of people say nix the dry food all together. I would like to keep a little on hand because hes lost a lot of weight but am seriously thinking about doing mostly wet food.

Any one have any suggestions of food brands both wet and dry that pet stores sells thats relatively inexpensive? Well atleast less then 2 dollars a can for cat food and 34 dollars for a 5 pound dry bag? I would really like a list for when I visit the pet store. I also know it would be best to look at labels as well.

I have heard a lot of good success stories with diabetic cats getting off insulin or atleast going way down on their doses..I would like to get Jack feeling better because 4 and 4 on his insulin is just out of control.

Any help is greatly appreciated
 
Welcome to the board there are a lot of wonderful people that will be lots of help through this...first nix the dry food Fancy Feast or some flavours of Friskies are good for diabetics more expensive brands like wellness are available too. The main thing is that they are low carb and grain free. Second home testing...it sounds scary at first but can save kitties life!! When you switch to wet food it can drop his BG nuber but 100 points so this should be started before switching to wet food. Any human BG Meter will do. There are links on here on testing tips, meter comperissons and wet food lists. This is really a great board and the good news is that a diabetic cat does not have to break the bank.
 
Oops forgot what type of insulin are you using that will help the more experienced people help you with dosing.
 
Okay first off ditch the dry food altogether...Yep I know he has lost a lot of weight and needs to gain but dry isn't going to do anything but keep his insulin dosage high, he will gain just fine on an all canned diet once we help you get his blood sugar under control. Right now he is unregulated so he will be eating like a horse because his body can't properly use what he is eating. Plus the vet food is pretty much junk food and there is nothing in it that is special, as well as most of them are still too high in carbs for a diabetic.

There are 14 cats here only two of which are diabetics and everyone here eats exactly what the diabetics eat...just good old fashioned Friskies Pate Style canned catfood. Nice thing about Friskies is that it comes in big 13oz cans so you can just free feed it to your boy. Just add a little warm water to it and you can leave it down for up to 12 hours without a problem, that way he can eat all he wants right now.

Second, What insulin is he on? The three perferred are Levemir, Lantus and PZI all 3 are gentle long lasting insulin and are great for cats.

You third key to this is home testing...not only will it keep your boy safe while on insulin, it will keep more money in your wallet because you won't be taking him to the vet's for curves. You can do everything they would right in the comfort of his own home. In fact neither of my diabetics have been to my vet for their diabetes as I adotped them as diabetics who were already up to date on their shots, so I do all their diabetic care at home just like a mother of a human diabetic child. Any human meter will work but the cheapest around is the Walmart housebrand the Relion Confirm, Micro or Prime and the test strips for any of those 3 meters will be the cheapest out there.

Others should be chiming in shortly. so to be so hasty in my answers but I'm in Nebraska and in the middle of a blizzard right now that keeps knocking out my power.

But wanted to welcome you to the Board..(Oh yeah I'm one of those success stories my Maxwell has been diet controlled and insulin free for 2 years and counting and his adopted sister Autumn is well on her way to remission as well..her dose has gone from 1.5u to 0.3u of Levemir)

Mel, Maxwell, Autumn & The Fur Gang
 
If your vet prescribed Humulin or Novolin N insulin, he is out of date. We see that a lot.
You might print this out to share with the vet:
AAHA Guidelines
 
Just a caution here - 4 units twice a day is a fairly large dose so please begin home testing and get a few days of data before you change his diet. If he likes wet food, you could begin adding some pate (Fancy Feast, Friskies, etc) to his diet, but do not eliminate the dry all at once. It may be that the carbs in the dry is keeping his insulin level at 4 units and if you remove it suddenly he mayhave too muh insulin and go hypoglycemic.
 
for all who was asking, hes on Prozinc 4 units twice a day.

Ok Im certain I want to take him off dry. But with his high doseage, I think Im not going to go cold turkry either.

would he be ok on the 4 and 4 and decreasing his dry food each day? I am going to the pet store today and getting some low carb dry to decrease him on. Its good to know I can use friskies classic..LOADS better than the DM at 2 dollars a can! And he loves friskies..he will not touch the DM

I was thinking after reading keeping some protein on hand like chicken..has anyone tried this? I even heard canned foods like canned chicken is good because they get more water in their diet that way

I also heard its good to keep some high carb treats on hand such as catsip for blood sugar that gets on the low side

My last thing is any tips on home testing? I can test just fine but My dad when he tests cant get enough blood so he pokes like 5 times and all it does is ending up pissing my cat off...

Thanks so much for the input!
 
Just-As-Appy said:
Just a caution here - 4 units twice a day is a fairly large dose so please begin home testing and get a few days of data before you change his diet. If he likes wet food, you could begin adding some pate (Fancy Feast, Friskies, etc) to his diet, but do not eliminate the dry all at once. It may be that the carbs in the dry is keeping his insulin level at 4 units and if you remove it suddenly he mayhave too muh insulin and go hypoglycemic.
Click to expand...


Yes, absolutely agree with JAA's post (copied above). Do not remove dry food unless/until you are comfortable with hometesting and can monitor your cat's blood glucose at home. But don't worry. There's no rush. You don't need to do everything all at once. :smile:

Dry food can really inflate BG levels, and removing dry food can cause BG levels to drop dramatically. This may mean that the insulin dose needs to be reduced. So, if your cat is already on insulin I'd suggest that you get comfortable with hometesting first, and then phase out the dry food.
 
My Chester and I are still in the first week of home testing, but he's already learning that a poke in the ear means there will be treats to follow. I picked up some Pure Bites freeze-dried treats from Petsmart and he loves them. No carbs, just freeze-dried meat. He still doesn't LIKE the testing, but he's getting used to it.

I free-hand the lancet. I thought i wanted to use the lancet device, but it's one more thing to hold onto and I can control the lancet better with just my hands. I just place the lancet at an angle against the edge of his ear, then push it in. It works well and I usually get my blood drop with the first stick. Maybe your dad can try that?
 
Welcome to the site.

The dose of 4u BID of Prozinc is fairly high and your cat has likely been OK because of the dry food.
If you remove the dry food right away, as you should, that dose will be too high.

I think the best approach would be to post some of your cat's BG numbers, you test before every shot, yes? Once the numbers are known, it's likely best to cut that dose back and remove all the dry food.

Too many cats are found to be diet controlled, just by removing the dry food, so it's not great to 'leave just a little out'.... better to leave a bit of wet food out.

Most of the owners start at a dose around 1u BID or some start even lower at .5u BID, so it may be OK for you to do the same .... take away the dry food, drop the dose down to 1u BID or even 2u BID, then when the dry food's out of the system, you will see true BG numbers.

I know many people feed fancy feast pates, but there are many other choices.... check on Dr. Lisa's food list for brands/flavors under 10% carb, and if you want to pack on some weight, look for the ones with carbs under 10% and also have the higher calorie numbers.
http://www.catinfo.org/docs/Food%20Char ... -22-12.pdf

There is a forum for owners who are using Prozinc and PZI; you can post in that forum for more specific help in dosing and transition.
 
I think your scenerio of a high dose and dry food is one of the most difficult to deal with. We'd like to see less insulin and wet low carb food, but it can be dangerous to suddenly lower the dose and change the food. If I were you, I would get hometesting down so I was confident doing it and so I can some numbers to consider. I'd also get the ketone strips and be confident about ketone testing: ketones It's also important that your kitty be whole heartedly on board with wet food and that you are confident he will continue to eat.

Depending on the numbers you are seeing, you could reduce the dry by half, substituting wet, monitoring carefully, while also reducing the dose by half. You would want to be taking tests consistently, watching the numbers and ketones carefully. As you get more numbers, you could reduce again, as necessary.

It is true that we urge new diabetics to start at .5 or one unit and feed wet, but I get nervous advising those already on a high dose with dry food to suddenly go back to that low of a dose while also changing the diet. We would not want to get into a situation where he is not interested in the wet food and not eating. He is your kitty and you decide how you want to proceed. I just want you to have all the possibilities in your mind as you do.

Here is a monster document on ProZinc. Lots of information and links:

http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=32799

Keep reading and asking questions. We are here to help.
 
Here are the food charts and lists we use:

Dr. Lisa's new food chart http://www.catinfo.org/docs/Food Chart Public 9-22-12.pdf
Binky's canned food charts
Pet Food Nutritional Values list
Hobo's Guide To Nutritional Values

Look for foods under 10% carbs on the above four charts.

Quick shopping lists of suitable foods:
Dr. Lynne's Wet Food list
List of low carb gluten free Fancy Feast
http://felinediabetes.com/FDMB/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=84885
http://felinediabetes.com/FDMB/viewtopic.php?f=28&t=81687
http://felinediabetes.com/FDMB/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=84885

As far as I know, most of the low carb suitable canned foods for diabetics cost under $2 per can. Fancy Feast is popular and inexpensive but those 3oz can really add up in cost over time An unregulated diabetic may eat as many as 4 or 5 cans of Fancy Feast a day. Friskies is available in larger 5 oz cans and is affordable. I think there is a Friskies variety that is available in a 12oz (?) can size. Wellness is another popular brand and comes in 3oz, 5oz, and 12 oz can sizes. Petco occasionally has this brand on sale.

The most important thing is that your cat will eat the food. Some picky cats may need several brands offered before they decide on the one or two that they like.

Dry foods of any kind keeps blood gluocse levels too high. Some diabetics are so sensitive that even a few pieces of a "low carb" grain-free dry food can shoot blood glucose levels up. Dry food in general isn't healthy for cats anyways. It contributes to a dehydrated cat which may result in other health issues. Catinfo.org goes into more detail about proper nutrition and the problems associated with dry food.
 
Thanks all for your input..I appreciate it!!!

Dad and I have a plan.

We do think its not wise to remove Jack totally off of dry food when his insulin is at 4. We are however changing what kind of dry food we use and how much we use it. Dad used to let all the cats be grazers. Which meant hed fill up the bowl to the max and let them eat off it all day. Not only is Jack diabetic, but we have a severely overweight cat..23lbs so he has decided..appropriate meal times is best for ALLL the cats.

I have been doing some research and told dad what kind of dry food he needs based on the calories need for his weight and how many carbs to look for. I also told him just like human diabetes, hes going to have to measure jacks dry food and cut the recommended serving in half between his two meals..

sooo

Jack will get two shots twelve hours apart with his meals thirty minutes before hand. He weill get wet which will be left out and dry for as long as he eats the dry..If he only eats dry for five minutes, then well put it up after hes done eatting it. Then I have done some research, and we are going to start giving Jack a couple protein snacks during the day such as chicken or tuna.

We are supposed to bring him in for a check up in like two weeks to get a vet BG and see how he is doing. Once the vet starts lowering his insulin, we will start phasing out dry. I have done some research, and some people said phasing out can take a while and to be patient.

I can home test, Dad still has difficulty with it. Until Dad gets more comfortable with it, I think this is the best route to go..I will be my parents on Christmas and I will stay the night so i can do a curve on him. If anyone has a good link on that that would be awesome because the one I read is confusing
 
On running a curve....that is easy.

Okay say you give Jack his morning shot at 7am, you test right before that shot and before he is fed that number is his amps (morning preshot) then you simply test every two hours from there until his evening shot or his pmps (evening preshot)

So you would test at:

7am, 9am, 11am, 1pm, 3pm, 5pm, 7pm...that's all it is. Normally the lowest point or nadir is going to be at that 1pm test give or take, some cats its a little earlier and some a little later.

Now if you want to post those numbers here in a thread since we are international we write it out as:

amps (7am test)
+2 (9am)
+4 (11am)
+6 (1pm)
+8 (3pm)
+10 (5pm)
pmps (7pm)

Does that help make sense of it all?

Mel, Maxwell, Autumn & The Fur Gang
 
...Jack will get two shots twelve hours apart with his meals thirty minutes before hand. He weill get wet which will be left out and dry for as long as he eats the dry..If he only eats dry for five minutes, then well put it up after hes done eatting it. ...
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And doing that, you'll change the carbs he's eating AND the calories, so without changing his insulin, you may send him into a hypoglycemic state which can kill him.

For his safety, I would not change the food until you are testing before every shot and can check him mid-cycle, unless you also drop the insulin dose at the same time. You can't take the insulin out once its given.

The Secondary Monitoring Tools in my signature link provide some additional means of monitoring his status; they are, however, less precise than blood glucose testing.
 
IMHO, if you can't test often, that doesn't mean you should not start wet food. Just know how to recognize hypogyclemia and to know how to treat it. If you currently have NO access to testing, yes, you should get supplies and do it. And, if you don't, you might consider reducing the insulin to no more than 1 unit per dose or temporarily discontinuing it. If you do that and don't have home test supplies, consider no insulin + wet food only followed by a vet blood glucose test in 3-5 days.

Let's don't make things too absolute, too strident. We all have different capabilities.

Best,
Rebecca
 
I apologize if I seemed strident. We just lost one in the past 2 weeks from a hypo incident.

From Rebecca: Thank you, BJ. Passion can be hard to control.
 
Thats fine about being cautious..and Im sorry to hear about your kitty...

And I might have sent mixed signals but Jack is not going off the dry food just yet. He was grazing dry food all day long..He still gets access to dry but not 24/7 which I know isnt helping his BG. He was snacking on dry any chance he got. I swear he was even doing it because he was bored ...he was eatting that much. Before the 4's on PRozinc he was atleast testing 600 even more because it only reads as high at 600 and above I DO NOT feel comfortable lowering his insulin until I do a curve on tues and I would ideally like him to get checked out by the doctor or at the very least call her and ask her recommendation of his dosage after I do the curve..Im training in psychology..not animals...I applaud you guys that you can do it, but to me, it feels to risky for me to do it. So he is getting a VERY GRADUAL reduction in dry as his insulin goes down.

We have the test kit, its just getting dad used to doing it but I tested him every time Im home. Likely I said I will be curving him on tuesday

The only problem I have with urine testing is we have three other cats but that may resolve itself because his neuropathy doesnt allow him to climb stairs so maybe if I could get him to go just downstairs, that would work.

A report from home..hes neuropathy is slightly better and hes begging to sit on laps again which he wasnt doing when he was really sick. He also has his jackie look about him again..Hes not completely there but is improving..Hes also eatting a lot better since he went back to FF pate. He loathed the DM
 
and his methyl b12 is on the way...I am so glad its like his cosoquin where I just had to sprinkle it on his food
 
oh btw Dad is very good at spotting a low. He got Jack just as he was experiencing one..used some corn syrup and he was back to himself in no time. And it was even a bad one. Dad may cant test worth a crap but he can spot a low like noones business
 
Was this low recent? Since you started reduced the dry and adding the wet? If so, you want to be careful with the dose.

I'll be glad to see your curve tomorrow. Be sure to add comments with the numbers re what food was fed when.
 
No it has not been since the change in dry..It was when Jack was first diagnose..Dad and I are being UBER cautious about these changes and we are happy to report that we are seeing improvements all ready
 
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