Off the juice trial info?

[Haylee&Tigger]

I swear I saw somewhere about the "OTJ trial" link/info page but now I can't seem to find where it is or what its under. Can a sista get some help? I just would like to read it over.

 

[Bron and Sheba (GA)]

Looking at your SS you need to reduce the dose to 0.1 unit. The longer you can safely give insulin the stronger the remission will be.

Here are some OTJ instructions Wendy wrote to someone
If he is green at your normal test times, no need to test further until the next "PS" time; just feed small meals and go about your day.

—If he is blue at your normal "PS", feed a small meal and test again after about 3 or 4 hours. If his number is lower 3-4 hours after a meal, then the pancreas is working!

—Post every day so we can monitor your progress and see if any tweaks are needed. He may have a sporadic blue number. Don't panic but post before you decide whether to shoot so we can have a discussion.

—After 14 days of no insulin, we have a party!!

Sometimes the trial doesn't work the first time and we have to give a little more support in the form of resuming insulin. It's not the end of the world if that happens; we just give him the support needed. Our goal is a strong remission and it's better to take our time to get that than to rush into remission just to have it fail later on.

Once he is through the trial successfully, you enter a new phase. Tyler is still diabetic but has now become diet-controlled. Continue feeding low carb food in the manner successful for your kitty. If you decide to change his feeding schedule, let your meter be your guide to the best times to feed. Avoid medications with sugar in them and steroid medications unless they are medically essential. Continue testing blood glucose weekly for the first month and then monthly forever. It's a good idea to weigh him monthly. Weight should remain stable. If he seems "off" or sick, or is showing signs of diabetes (excessive drinking, eating, urinating, weight loss), test his blood glucose right away. Keep the teeth and gums clean and healthy; dental issues can bring a cat out of remission. If you see rising blood glucose numbers, it's time for a visit to the vet! Good luck with the trial!!!

 

[Haylee&Tigger]

@Bron and Sheba (GA) I am giving Tigger the doses he is being given based on all kinds of factors that come into his daily life. Had I followed the dosing instructions listed here, I would have NEVER been able to get him to where he is now. Everything I tried was not working and the only way to get his number in a safe range was to be aggressive with it and learn on my own.

I am fully aware that he needs a reduction and I have given him a reduction but not as low as you’re suggesting. That would do nothing for him and his number would rise back into the 200-300 range. For example, I just tested him and his number was 178 (not on the spreadsheet yet because I don’t fill it out every single day, I don’t have the time to), I gave him 1U last night and he was in a good forest green all night. A WHOLE unit, not 0.1 of a unit as you are suggesting. I am at my home the majority of my days and watching him all day and most of the night. Whenever something happens, I promptly take care of it. However, when I would try a reduction, his numbers would shoot way up and stay that way for several cycles.

With all due respect, I’m not trying to come off rude, but I have a good handle on this, him and I have been through it before. I only asked for the trial instructions not a SS look over.

Again I’m not trying to come off rude at all but I’ve been beyond frustrated this time (for a million reasons that also don’t have to do with the cat himself) and right when I start doing something that is finally working for my cat, someone is now telling me to reduce his dose to something I know for sure won’t have any impact on him and would make his number go up. He has been unusually high this entire time, I have exhausted everything that could have knocked him out of his previous remission and therefore he was just in really high numbers for reasons I don’t fully understand.

I understand what typical protocol would be, but every time I attempted to go strictly by protocol, his numbers raised higher and not just for the beginning of the cycle because I understand it could be higher right after a newly raised/lower dose it continued for several, several cycles afterward and I attempted to ignore it and give it a chance. I appreciate the suggested advice you are trying to give in regards to his dosage, but it’s not going to work for him.

Every cat is different.

 

[Sienne and Gabby (GA)]

Haylee --

I can understand you have a handle on how your cat responds to insulin. Whatever you decided to do got your cat into better numbers.

I can also see Bron's concern given that Tigger has been dropping into the 30s and was surfing in the 40s on 1/29. It would be irresponsible on our part to not point out that a dose reduction was needed.

I'd also point out context -- you were asking for information on an OTJ trial. My assumption was that you were thinking that Tigger was ready to start a trial. (You may have been asking for other reasons but it wasn't clear.)

 

[FrostD]

Here's the thing. This is not the first post you've done the whole "not to be rude thing". Fact is, it is curt and it is rude, and frankly it makes me not want to put the time into responding. Why come back for advice and information when you think what we're doing doesn't work and you're going to dismiss most of what we say? You are putting him in danger with these numbers and that's primarily what she's pointing out as due diligence. You can do whatever you want, he is your cat, do what you think is best... nobody is telling you not to. But you could have simply left it at "Ok, thanks for your input"

The way we do it here is you need to get him down to a dose of 0.1U after taking reductions properly - so down by 0.25U increments after going below 50 if you're doing MPM by the book. It goes from 0.25U down to 0.1U, then depending on the cat a drop dose. Once he is in nearly all green numbers for 2 weeks OR he goes below reduction threshold, you can attempt an OTJ trial. 2 weeks without insulin, you really should not see many blues.

 

[Haylee&Tigger]

Yes and as I have said, I have given Tigger a reduction based on that.

I simply asked for the information, that’s all. It shouldn’t matter what I plan to do with this information regardless. Perhaps I wanted to write it down so I would have it for the near future? Perhaps I did think he was ready? Perhaps I wanted to just ask a random question for no reason.

Trust me I am thankful for the reply but Tigger is MY responsibility, it’s not really the responsibility of anyone here, if we want to get into technicalities. You all can think what you want but I’m taking care of him and love him. I wouldn’t want him dead because of a hypo situation…. Which is why I’ve stated before that I am home 24/7 and am able to monitor all day/night. Anything that happens, I catch.

 

[Haylee&Tigger]

Here's the thing. This is not the first post you've done the whole "not to be rude thing". Fact is, it is curt and it is rude, and frankly it makes me not want to put the time into responding. Why come back for advice and information when you think what we're doing doesn't work and you're going to dismiss most of what we say? You are putting him in danger with these numbers and that's primarily what she's pointing out as due diligence. You can do whatever you want, he is your cat, do what you think is best... nobody is telling you not to. But you could have simply left it at "Ok, thanks for your input"

The way we do it here is you need to get him down to a dose of 0.1U after taking reductions properly - so down by 0.25U increments after going below 50 if you're doing MPM by the book. It goes from 0.25U down to 0.1U, then depending on the cat a drop dose. Once he is in nearly all green numbers for 2 weeks OR he goes below reduction threshold, you can attempt an OTJ trial. 2 weeks without insulin, you really should not see many blues.

Because I am tired of coming here for helpful friendly advice and all I’ve ever gotten was smart remarks and how I’m doing everything wrong.

Second, everyone here says “every cat is different” SO much but the one time I say it, it’s wrong?

I only asked for simple information, that’s it.

 

[Haylee&Tigger]

Thanks everyone. I’ll just be taking my leave now.

 

[FrostD]

Because I am tired of coming here for helpful friendly advice and all I’ve ever gotten was smart remarks and how I’m doing everything wrong.

Second, everyone here says “every cat is different” SO much but the one time I say it, it’s wrong?

I only asked for simple information, that’s it.

Nobody here is being smart, least of all Bron. We see something, we say something, it's as simple as that. There are a lot of caregivers who forget the nuances of the guidelines the forum uses - who can blame them? There's a lot of fine print. So I assure you it's only ever intended as helpful reminders with the goal of keeping the cat safe.

And this is not the first we've said this, we have insisted before there is nothing intended other than trying to be helpful.

I'm not going to belabor the point, I am not looking to argue. I am simply setting a boundary for myself and how I will and will not interact on this forum, you are obviously free to do the same. If you need help in the future I am more than happy to help, but I am going to do it with the forum guidelines as the base of my reasoning.

 

[Haylee&Tigger]

Nobody here is being smart, least of all Bron. We see something, we say something, it's as simple as that. There are a lot of caregivers who forget the nuances of the guidelines the forum uses - who can blame them? There's a lot of fine print. So I assure you it's only ever intended as helpful reminders with the goal of keeping the cat safe.

And this is not the first we've said this, we have insisted before there is nothing intended other than trying to be helpful.

I'm not going to belabor the point, I am not looking to argue. I am simply setting a boundary for myself and how I will and will not interact on this forum, you are obviously free to do the same. If you need help in the future I am more than happy to help, but I am going to do it with the forum guidelines as the base of my reasoning.

That’s fine. I was simply stating something that everyone here likes to say “every cat is different”.
Well, I followed guidelines further back in my spreadsheet and every single time I tried to do something based on the guidelines of this forum, it did not work. That’s the whole reason why the phrase is even there… to let you know that not every cat is the same and mine is apparently not and needed a more aggressive approach at first. I have done that, got his numbers into a safe range and have given the reduction but based on how his body was acting, a reduction to 0.1 will not be sufficient for him. I was simply pointing that out that it will not work. Nothing wrong with that at all.

Regardless, I’m probably going to just delete my profile because I wouldn’t just say “all I’ve ever gotten were rude responses/remarks” if it wasn’t true. Either that or I receive no help at all and wind up deleting my post. That’s why I haven’t posted here in so long because I’ll just figure it out on my own.

Thank you all, it’s been a time.