ODD BEHAVIOR AND BM CONCERNS

[SammyM]

Hi folks...I always know a friendly place to come to when my baby boy is acting strange. You all helped me greatly three years ago and it saved his life.

Elvis is now 16 years old and has been in great health since what I still believe was a misdiagnosis of diabetes 3 years ago that nearly killed him. He has not been on insulin since and I check his #s regularly and he's perfect. There was a 2 lb drop-off in 4 months last year, but he's been steady at 11-11.5 lbs ever since.

At the time of the misdx, I changed his food from a high grain dry food (Hill's Prescription Diet c/d) to a virtually no grain food (Young Again mixed with EVO) and that is when he became healthy, lost weight, went insulin free, and had regular eliminations...2-3 urinations daily and 1 BM every 36 hours or so. He has exhibited all the 5 Ps (peeing, pooping, purring, playing, and preening) regularly and his affect has been great..until recently....

I have noticed that he's sleeping a lot more and not coming out of his favorite little sleeping place (a little box I made into like a cave by putting a T-shirt around it)....he comes out to eat and drink, and to use the litter box, but he always joined me on the sofa at night, on the bed at bedtime, or up on the high part of a rocker chair, but not lately...been about 10 days. Even though he's eating, I notice he's doing so more frequently along with drinking...his urination is normal, but it's been almost 3 days since I've seen a BM. He's not complaining and doesn't seem to be in any discomfort or pain, even when I squeeze him, and except for the fact that he's been in this box nearly 24/7 now on and off for close to 2 wks....he seems pretty normal. He does come on my bed early in the mornings for his daily petting and scratching behind the ears routine, and he purrs like a motor boat, but instead of lying down at the foot of the bed while I'm watching TV, it's off the bed and back in the box. This has me concerned but mostly the change in BM frequency.

He is very difficult to take to the Vet...he hates it and it traumatizes him for a day and me along with him. And at his age now I don't want to cause any irreparable harm to him mentally. I have noticed the past year too that he sometimes resorts to strange gurgling-sounding howling at night when waking from a sleep. I call out to him...."It's ok little boy," and he stops. Haven't heard that lately, almost simultaneously with this knew hibernation behavior. Is this all just what aging cats do and am I over-worrying?

Any help would be appreciated.

Thank you.

 

[Kris & Teasel]

Constipation is an often discussed issue here. Many add plain canned pumpkin to the wet food with good success. Adding extra water to all wet food meals can help too. I'm sure others will chime in soon with advice.

 

[SammyM]

Constipation is an often discussed issue here. Many add plain canned pumpkin to the wet food with good success. Adding extra water to all wet food meals can help too. I'm sure others will chime in soon with advice.

Elvis doesn't eat wet food, strictly dry. I suppose I can try to put a little in a separate dish and see if he'll eat it. Thank you.

 

[Djamila]

How long ago was his last vet visit? I know it's stressful (for my kitties too!), but at 16-years-old, getting regular lab work is important. It makes for a difficult day for you both, but kitties quickly move on once they are back in their home space and have some time to sleep off the stress. Cats are so good at hiding emerging health issues, so it's really the best way to know if something is going on with him. Kris has given you some great advice about adding pumpkin and water to the diet to try to help with the constipation.

 

[Lillie]

Before Leo was off all dry food I resorted to sprinkling the Miralax on top of his dry food. It's not supposed to be the way it works but it did as long as he was also drinking water.
You could see if Elvis likes pumpkin puree just by itself. Leo loves it. The pumpkin has worked wonders for his BM's along with no dry food. He was a dry food junkie and was constipated all the time. Since he is wet food only now he never gets constipated. Age could be a factor with Elvis along with less regular activity as he gets older. I always noticed some change in behavior as my cats aged. Night time howling was one and sleeping in different or unusual spots was another.

 

[SammyM]

This is all very helpful, thank you. His last vet visit was almost two years ago so I know I should bring him him, but after the ordeal a vet put me through with his misdx 3 years ago, I'm very leery, and the trauma he goes through is so upsetting. BTW, I bought this product from a pet store....Quiet Moments Calming Aid plus Melatonin....I have never tried it on him before, but if someone can tell me if I should or best not to, I would appreciate it.

I will invest in a can of pumpkin and try that, and the Miralax is also a good thought. Unfortunately, Elvis has never and will never eat wet food, but the Young Again people have assured me that their product promotes ample drinking and I have to say, he has no problem in that department, and urinates 2-3 x a day, very generously I might add. Until now, if this is the case, he has never had one instance of constipation though.

 

[Squalliesmom]

Unfortunately, aging kitties can sometimes suffer from dementia; the symptoms you describe, night-time howling and changes in sleeping habits, could both be symptoms of dementia. If you can't get him to the vet, at least see if the vet will do a sort-of phone consult with you to discuss possibilities. Sending prayers for Elvis.

 

[Lillie]

Make sure the pumpkin puree is not the stuff for making pies with added sugar and spices. I buy a plain organic pumpkin puree with nothing else added.
Don't know anything about melatonin for cats. I would research it more before giving it to him. There is a product called Feliway (sp?) that is a calming spray and diffuser used for cats.
Three days is a bit of a stretch for not having a BM. You could also try cat lax or hair ball remedy which might help get things moving.? If he goes several more days without a BM I would really try hard to get him to a vet.

 

[SammyM]

Unfortunately, aging kitties can sometimes suffer from dementia; the symptoms you describe, night-time howling and changes in sleeping habits, could both be symptoms of dementia. If you can't get him to the vet, at least see if the vet will do a sort-of phone consult with you to discuss possibilities. Sending prayers for Elvis.

I have long suspected dementia, but he's been such a happy kitty I didn't want to mess with bringing him to the vet for validation. Good suggestion, I will ask for a phone consult.

Any thoughts on the Quiet Moments Calming Aid?

 

[SammyM]

Make sure the pumpkin puree is not the stuff for making pies with added sugar and spices. I buy a plain organic pumpkin puree with nothing else added.
Don't know anything about melatonin for cats. I would research it more before giving it to him. There is a product called Feliway (sp?) that is a calming spray and diffuser used for cats.
Three days is a bit of a stretch for not having a BM. You could also try cat lax or hair ball remedy which might help get things moving.? If he goes several more days without a BM I would really try hard to get him to a vet.

Oh right, excellent point! I will be sure to make sure it's all natural organic puree. I will also look for the Feliway, sounds like a better option.

I have already placed a called to the vet and am hoping for a cancellation; they said I could do a drop off, but there's no way I'm leaving him without me being there, that would surely kill him.

Thanks again.

 

[Phoebes (GA)]

This is all very helpful, thank you. His last vet visit was almost two years ago so I know I should bring him him, but after the ordeal a vet put me through with his misdx 3 years ago, I'm very leery, and the trauma he goes through is so upsetting. BTW, I bought this product from a pet store....Quiet Moments Calming Aid plus Melatonin....I have never tried it on him before, but if someone can tell me if I should or best not to, I would appreciate it.

I will invest in a can of pumpkin and try that, and the Miralax is also a good thought. Unfortunately, Elvis has never and will never eat wet food, but the Young Again people have assured me that their product promotes ample drinking and I have to say, he has no problem in that department, and urinates 2-3 x a day, very generously I might add. Until now, if this is the case, he has never had one instance of constipation though.

My phobes had chronic constipation for 6 years. We tried miralax but gave her tarry black (no blood it was checked) poops that would stick to Everything. We used benefiber. And now 100% organic pumpkin puree. Nothing added. She poops like a regular cat. If he hasn't pooped in a few days that first one will be hard and painful. Might have to have an enema if you don't get it moving. He is a doll baby and love his cave!! Hope your furbaby finds relief soon.

 

[Phoebes (GA)]

My phobes had chronic constipation for 6 years. We tried miralax but gave her tarry black (no blood it was checked) poops that would stick to Everything. We used benefiber. And now 100% organic pumpkin puree. Nothing added. She poops like a regular cat. If he hasn't pooped in a few days that first one will be hard and painful. Might have to have an enema if you don't get it moving. He is a doll baby and love his cave!! Hope your furbaby finds relief soon.

Maybe even some petroleum jelly or coconut oil. If he'll eat it. Just lick off your fingers or swipe it on his paw, might lick it off.

 

[SammyM]

Maybe even some petroleum jelly or coconut oil. If he'll eat it. Just lick off your fingers or swipe it on his paw, might lick it off.

I have organic coconut oil... I'll try that until I can get to the store for the pumpkin puree... How much pumpkin should I give him... daily?

 

[Phoebes (GA)]

I give her 1/8 of tsp 2x a day you might have to work up if that doesn't move him. But be careful it can cause diarrhea too, if given to much. That is her maintenance dose.

 

[Phoebes (GA)]

Quit a few people use Slippery elm Bark too. Its great for the tract. But you have to give a couple hours before or after given meds because it can cause this other meds not to absorb as well.

 

[Phoebes (GA)]

Elvis is so cute in his avatar I thought he was wearing a scarf!! lol

 

[Lillie]

Leo gets about a teaspoon a day divided up in feedings. He's a big boy though so not sure if that makes a difference in how much to give.
I thought he had a scarf on too!

 

[Squalliesmom]

I have long suspected dementia, but he's been such a happy kitty I didn't want to mess with bringing him to the vet for validation. Good suggestion, I will ask for a phone consult.

Any thoughts on the Quiet Moments Calming Aid?

I have never used any of the calming chews, but think they all work pretty similarly; I wouldn't imagine it could hurt to try it, it may really help.

 

[Squalliesmom]

I thought he had a scarf on too!

So did I, lol! What a perfect picture!!!

 

[SammyM]

I give her 1/8 of tsp 2x a day you might have to work up if that doesn't move him. But be careful it can cause diarrhea too, if given to much. That is her maintenance dose.

Just got back from the store and gave him 1/4 tspn. I can get him into vet, but not before 5:00 tomorrow... hopefully the pumpkin will kick in before then so I don't freak all day tomorrow; the nights are bad enough. I worry so much about him... he's my everything and I'm not use to seeing him so blue. Thanks so much for everyone's support.

 

[SammyM]

Quit a few people use Slippery elm Bark too. Its great for the tract. But you have to give a couple hours before or after given meds because it can cause this other meds not to absorb as well.

He's not on any meds so that wouldn't be an issue, but hopefully the pumpkin will do the trick.

 

[SammyM]

Elvis is so cute in his avatar I thought he was wearing a scarf!! lol

When he sits up it looks like he's wearing a tuxedo. He's a handsome little devil, befitting his name, and he knows It! Loves to have his pic taken.

 

[SammyM]

Leo gets about a teaspoon a day divided up in feedings. He's a big boy though so not sure if that makes a difference in how much to give.
I thought he had a scarf on too!

How big is Leo? Elvis was as high as 15 lbs. at the time they thought he was diabetic, then he dropped to 13 when I changed his food, and now he's been at 11-11.50 for quite a while.

 

[SammyM]

So did I, lol! What a perfect picture!!!

He's a real ham...

 

[Noah & me (GA)]

I have long suspected dementia

That's the one thing in this house that we're almost in denial about. Noah is also a terrible traveler, has NEVER been crated and has to be wrapped in piddle-pads and a towel and it has to be something serious for us to drag him to the vet. We also had a beautiful Border Collie, they really are the smartest dogs in the world, who walked without a leash for 12 years. In the end I would take her for a walk and she would stay close to me because she didn't know where she was. Now Noah is just like Elvis although he has a lot of medical issues. He just minds his own business and we're fine with that but for the last year he's constantly talking to us and today for the first time EVER he peed outside his box. He also constantly wanting to go in the fridge. Of course it was funny at first but now it's not. But if it's dementia then why do I just have to give his basket a thump and in he goes for his shot? And a big part of that is that he trusts me and Noah is a nervous cat, spent the first 6 years of his life living in our walk-in closet. I'm not making that up! I hope for both of us it's something simple. Watching your tiny kitten grow into an old man is never fun is it? Good luck Elvis. Too bad he never met my first two forever cats who lived to 17 and 23.

 

[Susan G & Jimmy G]

I have long suspected dementia, but he's been such a happy kitty I didn't want to mess with bringing him to the vet for validation. Good suggestion, I will ask for a phone consult.

Any thoughts on the Quiet Moments Calming Aid?

If you need to get him to vet ask if they will call in garbapentin for him. Sprinkle over his food and it will chill him out for the visit. Less stress for you both. The night bowling does sound like dementia...they awake slightly confused. Our Sammy had the same symptoms starting around age 16. The sleeping more often started around 13 yo. Keep us posted on little Elvis!

 

[Noah & me (GA)]

We gave our dog Valium for thunder and fireworks. They don't get looped and it has a nice curve to it, they don't get hammered and start drooling all at once. As usual, ask your vet first, dogs and cats are not the same. Duh!

 

[Phoebes (GA)]

Just got back from the store and gave him 1/4 tspn. I can get him into vet, but not before 5:00 tomorrow... hopefully the pumpkin will kick in before then so I don't freak all day tomorrow; the nights are bad enough. I worry so much about him... he's my everything and I'm not use to seeing him so blue. Thanks so much for everyone's support.

It took 2 doses for phoebes. Keeping it all crossed we get poop soon!! I know that worry to well. big hugs and head bumps to Elvis

 

[Phoebes (GA)]

If you need to get him to vet ask if they will call in garbapentin for him

Phoebes thinks she's 10 foot tall and bullet proof on gabapentin. Lol

 

[Meya14]

I have noticed the past year too that he sometimes resorts to strange gurgling-sounding howling at night when waking from a sleep.

My older female kitty (19 years) does this all the time. It's hunting behavior, and it seems to be more common in elderly cats. The younger cats get the "crazies" at night and do laps, the older cats just find a toy and yell (yowl!) at it. She wakes me up just about every night at 3am to tell me she found something. She always sounds like she's dying from the noise she's making.

As far as the lethargy/change in behavior, if this is something that came on slowly, it's possible that your cat has early or moderate CKD which is very common in older cats. The increase in water intake from the water bowl (in absence of high blood sugars) was what I also noticed with my older female cat in the early stages of CKD. In early CKD, cats cannot concentrate their urine as easily, so they end up losing more water. Chronic dehydration can lead to electrolyte issues, lethargy, constipation, etc. You should see if there is a mobile vet in your area that could draw labs at your home if your cat is hard to travel with.

 

[Lillie]

Elvis' Mom- Leo right now is 16 lbs. He lost a couple lbs when he came down with diabetes and I took him off the dry food. He was at one time 20 lbs but I got him down to 18 for a good while and now he is 16 lbs.
He's a large frame cat so he can handle the weight but 20 lbs was too much and probably contributed to his high glucose levels along with the dry food.

 

[SammyM]

That's the one thing in this house that we're almost in denial about. Noah is also a terrible traveler, has NEVER been crated and has to be wrapped in piddle-pads and a towel and it has to be something serious for us to drag him to the vet. We also had a beautiful Border Collie, they really are the smartest dogs in the world, who walked without a leash for 12 years. In the end I would take her for a walk and she would stay close to me because she didn't know where she was. Now Noah is just like Elvis although he has a lot of medical issues. He just minds his own business and we're fine with that but for the last year he's constantly talking to us and today for the first time EVER he peed outside his box. He also constantly wanting to go in the fridge. Of course it was funny at first but now it's not. But if it's dementia then why do I just have to give his basket a thump and in he goes for his shot? And a big part of that is that he trusts me and Noah is a nervous cat, spent the first 6 years of his life living in our walk-in closet. I'm not making that up! I hope for both of us it's something simple. Watching your tiny kitten grow into an old man is never fun is it? Good luck Elvis. Too bad he never met my first two forever cats who lived to 17 and 23.

My apologies for the delay in responding....I so feel what you said here. I too see so much of Elvis that's still kitten-like and normal, and then the occasional strange and odd behavior, for him. Just a few weeks ago he urinated on my bed which he has NEVER done as it is his sanctuary. But I noticed he loved to sleep on top of any clothing I had laying around so I put a pair of shorts on my bed for him to lie on. Later I saw the shorts all bundled up in a heap on my bed and I knew he had done something and tried to cover it up. He's never done it since, but the little things as you mention, they really make me take pause. Noah sounds like a sweetheart, like my little boy, and they probably would have been great friends. I've had four cats in my lifetime thus far, always a boy and a girl at the same time, and always experienced the boys to be the sweetest and the girls more aloof and prissy. Bingo, my first girl, lived to 17, as did Touchdown, my first boy who is so much like Elvis in spirit. My second girl, Tootsie, lived to 20 and now Elvis is 16....every day I'm so aware and concerned about his health. It's tough. Good luck to you and Noah as well. BTW, always wanted a Border Collie, but apartment living is more conducive to cats. I grew up as a child with a Collie, Lassie-kind, so I know how wonderful the breed is....maybe some day again.

 

[SammyM]

If you need to get him to vet ask if they will call in garbapentin for him. Sprinkle over his food and it will chill him out for the visit. Less stress for you both. The night bowling does sound like dementia...they awake slightly confused. Our Sammy had the same symptoms starting around age 16. The sleeping more often started around 13 yo. Keep us posted on little Elvis!

Thank you for your suggestion, I will definitely talk to the vet about that. Elvis thankfully did have a BM late Thursday night, and another this morning, so I cancelled the emergency vet and am taking him to his regular vet for an overall checkup this coming Thursday.

The howling seems to have subsided of late, now just mostly hibernating in his cave that I made as shown in the first pic. I'm sure there is some dementia going on as Elvis just turned 16 in February, but so far it's nothing too drastic. Thanks for your support and encouragement. All the best to you and Sammy.

 

[SammyM]

It took 2 doses for phoebes. Keeping it all crossed we get poop soon!! I know that worry to well. big hugs and head bumps to Elvis

Uncross everything!!!! Gratefully the one dose did the trick, Elvis had a BM Thursday night, and another sometime during the night last night. I say "gratefully" not only for him, but apparently he wasn't going to have any more of the pumpkin and I would have been apoplectic in trying to coerce him. I tried to give him more Friday morning just to be sure and now he won't touch it. This is what I have always gone through with him when it comes to soft foods. I mean, what cat doesn't like fresh people's tuna in a can??? He comes when I open the can, but he won't eat the bits I put on a plate. Always a hard food cat and until I found Young Again, I went crazy with him trying to break him from the hi-carb dry food he was on to canned food. It was killing us both and costing me a fortune in thrown out opened cans of food. Thank God for YA!!!!!

Thank you so much for your advice, encouragement and support. Again, thankfully the one dose of pumpkin did the trick but, I'm still taking him to his regular vet Wednesday; so glad I didn't have to go to the emergency one.

Phoebes looks like such a little dear...our 'furbabies' are the hearts and souls of us. May all of ours live in good health for as long as God makes possible.

 

[SammyM]

Elvis' Mom- Leo right now is 16 lbs. He lost a couple lbs when he came down with diabetes and I took him off the dry food. He was at one time 20 lbs but I got him down to 18 for a good while and now he is 16 lbs.
He's a large frame cat so he can handle the weight but 20 lbs was too much and probably contributed to his high glucose levels along with the dry food.

That sounds exactly like what happened to Elvis. Like Leo, Elvis has a larger frame and at his heaviest was around 15.5 lbs. Certainly not terribly overweight at the time, but what tipped me off something was wrong was his extreme lethargy and a general sad or unhappy look on his face. He wasn't jumping up to his favorite high places or playing, but stayed plastered to the floor with little affect. That's when they ran the test for glucose levels, found them high and immediately put him on insulin, and that's what damn near killed him. He wasn't getting better, getting worse as a matter of fact, and that's when I found this amazing forum and learned so much about hi-carb foods, etc. It's now been three years since I stopped the insulin, and his #s are tried and true and his weight maintains at around 11-11.5 lbs. Very thankful for this Board and Young Again Pet Foods.

 

[SammyM]

My older female kitty (19 years) does this all the time. It's hunting behavior, and it seems to be more common in elderly cats. The younger cats get the "crazies" at night and do laps, the older cats just find a toy and yell (yowl!) at it. She wakes me up just about every night at 3am to tell me she found something. She always sounds like she's dying from the noise she's making.

As far as the lethargy/change in behavior, if this is something that came on slowly, it's possible that your cat has early or moderate CKD which is very common in older cats. The increase in water intake from the water bowl (in absence of high blood sugars) was what I also noticed with my older female cat in the early stages of CKD. In early CKD, cats cannot concentrate their urine as easily, so they end up losing more water. Chronic dehydration can lead to electrolyte issues, lethargy, constipation, etc. You should see if there is a mobile vet in your area that could draw labs at your home if your cat is hard to travel with.

Thank you so much for this information. Elvis did finally have a BM Thursday night, and another sometime during the night last night, but I still am taking him to his regular vet for a checkup and this information you have give me about CKD is certainly something I will take up with him. Elvis always has been a big water drinker, sometimes more than at other times, but I would want to be sure that I'm not overlooking something.

Interesting about the 'hunting behavior'....he certainly does at times sound like the exorcist or like he's dying, or he's just discovered something new and is bragging about it and wants to show me. It's kind of funny, but because of his age, the frequency, and the fact I've never heard him do this before, it can be a bit disconcerting too. It has subsided though since he's now into staying in his 'cave' as previously pictured. I don't know, maybe he feels safer in there.

Mobile vet is also something i will look into, but for this upcoming visit Wednesday, I'm going to bite the bullet and try the mood calmers before I take him. Thankfully it's right across the street from my apartment complex.

Thank you again for your support and concern. All the best to you and your furry children.

 

[JanetNJ]

When one of mine was night howling it turned out to be high blood pressure. Are your cats ears feeling surprisingly warm?

 

[Phoebes (GA)]

Thank you so much for your advice, encouragement and support. Again, thankfully the one dose of pumpkin did the trick

I treated her for quit awhile with benefiber sprinkled in her food. Or you can dissolve and syringe it in. 1/8 th of a tsp 2x a day. Or maybe start once a day. so there is no explosions. we are in this marathon together