not the best vet visit

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Karen & Rudy

Karen & Rudy

Member Since 2014
Well, I am more confused than ever. The doctor is even going to ask for a second opinion. Rudy physically has been doing more grooming and playing, so I was expecting better numbers today than what we got. His fructosamine is higher than ever!
sept. 25- before we started prozinc it was 670,
oct. 10th- on one unit twice daily- it was 694,
oct. 24th- on two units twice daily- it is 786

they also checked creatinine levels- sept. 23 it was 2.2 and today it is 2.3. she said it should be below 1.6. I am so scared that his kidneys are failing him :-( She said we could start him on renavast pills to help. I haven't begun research in any kidney areas yet.

he also lost a little bit of weight. he was 14.4 lbs a month ago and now is 14.1. two months ago he was 16 lbs, but overweight, so I expected some loss. just afraid it won't stop now.

I feel like we are on a slippery slope. I actually asked about urns while I was at the vet and then bust into tears and left with out buying more needles that I am almost out of. i'll have to go back and get them tomorrow. ugh... I am such a mess right now. I just want to know why nothing is working, why things are getting worse instead of better?
 
What are you feeding him?

I also suspect that 2 units 2x daily is too low. My cat's numbers were never as bad a yours (600) and I was giving him 3-4 units 2x daily at one point.
Lower carb foods work better than raising insulin.
 
I wish I had some advice on the increased fructosamine levels, but I am sure one of our more experience users will have some insight. All I can do is pass on some advice that was given to me on this forum: Rudy didn't get diabetic overnight, so he won't be regulated overnight. We are in a marathon to get our kitties better and as long as we are making progress (i.e. Rudy is doing better physically) then we are being great parents to our kitty cats. Give yourself a pat on the back for his better physical symptoms!!

I believe you are home testing based on your previous posts but only update your SS once a week, have you done a BG curve yet? That might give you some insight as to what is going on with Rudy during his cycle, and allow some of the more experienced members to help you figure out the need for dose increases/decreases (I listen to this board more than I listen to my vet on dosing advice because I feel people here have more experience). I am guessing that he probably needs more insulin than he is currently getting, but I would be cautious increasing his insulin dosage until you have some more mid-cycle readings and/or a BG curve.

It's hard for me to test my cat because I work full time, outside of the home. To help compensate, I get up in the middle of the night to check her BG levels and have done what I call a mini-curve at night (every 3 hours instead of every 2 hours). I am only able to get my full curves on the weekends (and those can sometimes be hard to get if I have anything going on during the weekend). So, that is a thought if you have trouble getting mid-cycle numbers during the day and are willing to get up a couple times a night.

Have you changed over his food to a low carb wet food? I can't remember from your previous posts what he is eating. Changing my cat to Fancy Feast Classic made a visible improvement in 48 hours (just be careful to do this slowly and test regularly during any food changes to make sure he doesn't go too low).

You are doing great, and educating yourself is half the battle!
 
I had immediately switched to wysong epigen from science diet hairball control. it is still kibble, but he was an addict. I want to change him to wet only and we are working on it slowly.
we are doing his curve tomorrow and will have those posted by the day after. I had thought he might not get better right away, but I am shocked that he is going downhill in spite of all of our efforts.
What is upsetting to me is that in June we had a full blood panel and all of his levels were normal. I only took him back in august because he had been acting strange and that is when they diagnosed him as a sugar kitty. it does feel like everything changed overnight and just keeps on rolling. I just feel as though I have lost control of his situation and worry that I won't be able to get him on the path to being healthy. I love this poor baby soooo much and I can't stand that I am helpless to get him better right now.
I give you all so much credit for handling things they way you all have and the successes that I read on here are very encouraging.
 
Good job on the diet switch and working with him to eat wet food. You are on the right path with his diet! :-D

I felt the loss of control (and still feel it at times) when my kitty was diagnosed. It has been 1 month from her diagnosis, and I promise that it gets better. Not sure we ever quit worrying about our cats completely, but with progress comes confidence in the process. It's easy to let the numbers get us down, but keep plugging away at it and you will eventually get the right dosage figured out. I think we all struggle with what dosage is correct.
 
:YMHUG: Karen :YMHUG:

This is a real rollercoaster. I've lost count of the times when I've been just as frantic, scared and frustrated as you are right now; and utterly miserable that I could not make my beloved girl better immediately. What I've found helpful is to watch for the real world signs that Saoirse is feeling better in herself and watching for them to happen more often. Even so, I still have my meltdowns when things I try don't work as well as I had hoped.

Sometimes one needs to stand back to see the bigger picture in order to notice what's going right (not easy to do when one is at one's wit's end with worry ... nailbite_smile ). For example, Rudy may have lost a little more weight but the rate has slowed down dramatically. I know it doesn't feel like it right now but going from a rate of 1.6lbs in a month to 0.3 lbs in a month is progress. (Just not as much progress as we critter parents would like. grr_red ;-) ) The increased grooming and playing are great signs that Rudy is feeling better, even if his numbers aren't the way they should be. As BJ often gently reminds us, our moggies are so much more than their test results. When you get a chance, check out the 'Secondary Monitoring Tools' link in BJ's signature. Keeping records is a great way to make Rudy's progress more visible, and the data are very valuable in aiding diagnosis and steering treatment/feeding, etc.

You'll come across mention of patience pants on this board for good reason: it truly is a marathon. Try to keep an eye out for the milestones, not just the finishing line. It helps a lot. :smile:
 
I'm sorry the vet visit was worrying. The fructosamine is an average of his numbers over the past two weeks and yes, his levels are high. I am anxious to see the cruve to see if he is generally high and flat (which would indicate an increase in insulin is needed) or if he is bouncing from lower nadir numbers. If he needs more insulin, you can be more agressive with dosing. We generally say 3 cycles and then increase by .25 or .5, depending on the numbers. The way this works is to increase (unless he is bouncing from lows to highs) until he hits the place where the numbers start to drop significantly. Then you slowly decrease. The process and the time it takes is absolutely different for every cat.

I do think the dry is not doing his kidneys any favors. I know you are working hard to get him switched over to wet. Dry food increases dehydration and that is a big part of kidney disease. There are lots of people here dealing with both issues so you might start a new thread asking for help with kidney issues and get some suggestions for wet food that will support the kidneys.

You are doing the best you possibly can to help him - getting him to eat better food, trying to find the right dose, testing him to keep him safe.
 
I just want to address your concerns about the kidneys. Elevated values do not necessarily mean that the kidneys are failing. I found that Squeakers kidney values (BUN and Creatinine) were very high before the diabetes was regulated. Kidney failure is not diagnosed until the values are elevated over a period of months.

Squeaker is in remission (we used Lantus), then he had heart damage with congestive heart failure, and was dx in March 2014 with kidney failure. Knowing a little about kidney failure, I was researching Renavast and it is not recommended for cats that do have kidney failure. The manufacturer won't even reveal the ingredients so I am not comfortable with not knowing.
I would suggest that you instead begin to give Astro's N-C Scrub. It is a product that is designed to lower the BUN and Creatinine levels and is safe to give "if" your cat is in any stage of renal failure; if not it still may help bring those kidney values down. You just mix it with his food or mix with water and syringe feed it. You have to contact the manufacturer through his website and order direct from him. The product is not listed on the website so you have to specify that you want the N-C Scrub and it's not really all that expensive. Just do a web search for "Astro's CRF Oil" and that will get you to the website to place your order. I hope you will give it a try.

Anita and Squeaker
 
The link to Secondary Monitoring Tools is in my signature.

There also is a signature link for Glucometer Notes which points out, that high is high and home meters vary +/- 20% from what a lab may get. When you're at 600 mg/dL, for example, the 'true' value is somewhere between 480 to 720 mg/dL. Home glucometers are not intended to replace lab tests, only to give you a general trend.

To read more about kidney disease, go to Tanya's Feline CRF web site. It is an excellent resource, and includes info on the phosphorus content of foods, which you may want to reduce. (Note: Dehydration may elevate numbers! Hydrated values are more accurate.)
 
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