Not FD… any feline health people out there please

Status
Not open for further replies.
Diana&Tom

Diana&Tom

Member Since 2009
I’ve been a member here for some 15 years and don’t have a diabetic kitty these days - but I’m in a real fix and I know there are people here treating kitties with all sorts of problems so I’m hoping someone will be able to help…

My beautiful kitty Sapphire, 12 years old, is not diabetic but has stage 2 kidney disease, and for most of this year has also been experiencing diarrhea. Yesterday she had an abdominal ultrasound at a specialist vet hospital to see if there were any clues as to what might be causing this. The only finding from the ultrasound was slightly enlarged nodes around the liver. Samples were sent to the lab and found to be non cancerous. Diagnosis is chronic enteropathy. She also has elevated white blood cell counts, including what the vet described as an “unusual, interesting one” pointing to possible allergy or parasites. The recommendation is to give a five-day worming treatment (she already had a single treatment in February); introduce probiotics, and either a hydrolyzed or novel single protein food, and retest bloods in six weeks.

This is my problem. Worming treatment and probiotics, sure. And I’m not against the idea of a new diet but what??? From what I’ve seen, the hydrolyzed ones don’t look very nice/nutritious plus I don’t know what their protein and phosphorus content would be (both relevant to CKD management). I don’t want to risk trying to solve one problem (diarrhea);which might make an other existing one (CKD) worse. And a lot of these foods are dry, which I’d certainly rather not feed. Sapphire has always eaten mostly wet chicken-based foods and the vet suggests another option is to try a novel single protein source, in case chicken is the culprit. Decent wet single protein commercial foods aren’t easy to find so I wondered about raw but of course that wouldn’t be complete and is still going to be high protein/phos…

Any thoughts please to help? The vet wants me to try something and repeat bloods in six weeks. I just don’t know what to do and am beside myself with worry
 
Sounds like your vet is leaning to a diagnosis of IBD possibly? Note IBD is one of a family of conditions under chronic enteropathy, and typically a biopsy (surgical or endoscopy) is done to properly diagnose which one. Treatment for IBD can be tried first, which might rule out the others. IBD is treated with probiotics and a novel protein diet. More here: https://www.ibdkitties.net/ and https://www.rawfeedingforibdcats.org/

Novel protein just means a protein she hasn't had before. Think lamb, duck, venison, kangaroo, buffalo, rabbit. It doesn't have to come in a can from the "vet" brands or be hydrolyzed. I have heard there is one product from the "vet" brands that is for both CKD and IBD, but can't remember which one. With Neko I fed raw low phosphorus, or a couple of the canned products.
 
Wendy&Neko said:
Sounds like your vet is leaning to a diagnosis of IBD possibly? Note IBD is one of a family of conditions under chronic enteropathy, and typically a biopsy (surgical or endoscopy) is done to properly diagnose which one. Treatment for IBD can be tried first, which might rule out the others. IBD is treated with probiotics and a novel protein diet. More here: https://www.ibdkitties.net/ and https://www.rawfeedingforibdcats.org/

Novel protein just means a protein she hasn't had before. Think lamb, duck, venison, kangaroo, buffalo, rabbit. It doesn't have to come in a can from the "vet" brands or be hydrolyzed. I have heard there is one product from the "vet" brands that is for both CKD and IBD, but can't remember which one. With Neko I fed raw low phosphorus, or a couple of the canned products.
Click to expand...

Thanks Wendy, that’s interesting. The dx is rather vague but the ultrasound showed that the gut was normal, it’s the slightly enlarged liver nodes and associated progressive eosinophilia that seems to be the issue. I’m definitely going to start probiotics, just at a loss to know what to do about the food. What would you try first, a novel protein or a hydrolyzed food? They would work in a different way, presumably? This is all brand-new to me and very confusing. I’m just worried that the hydrolyzed foods are full of stuff that might make the ckd worse.
Yes my vet did mention Royal Canin Multifunction food for both ckd and something else and I’d have given that a try but it’s not available in the UK atm. It all seems so difficult…
 
Diana&Tom said:
What would you try first, a novel protein or a hydrolyzed food? They would work in a different way, presumably?
Click to expand...
I think you could start with either, which ever your cat will eat. I used a premix with food I got from an exotic meat butcher, or from a pet store specializing in raw foods that has bulk novel proteins. Neko got to try elk. Tip, start with the cheapest novel protein first, cause you don't want them to develop a taste for the expensive meats.

Diana&Tom said:
The dx is rather vague but the ultrasound showed that the gut was normal, it’s the slightly enlarged liver nodes and associated progressive eosinophilia that seems to be the issue.
Click to expand...
I belong to a small cell lymphoma group, and have seen cats there with normal bowel thicknesses, though uncommon. Do you have a copy of the ultrasound results?
 
Wendy&Neko said:
I think you could start with either, which ever your cat will eat. I used a premix with food I got from an exotic meat butcher, or from a pet store specializing in raw foods that has bulk novel proteins. Neko got to try elk. Tip, start with the cheapest novel protein first, cause you don't want them to develop a taste for the expensive meats.


I belong to a small cell lymphoma group, and have seen cats there with normal bowel thicknesses, though uncommon. Do you have a copy of the ultrasound results?
Click to expand...
Thanks Wendy.
I don’t have a copy of the ultrasound results, just a summary of the liver situation and mention of the gut being ”normal”.
 
I'm not an expert but I have a GI-problematic cat (used to have a constant diarrhea without a specific diagnosis), and the only food that works for her is Royal Canine Gastrointestinal dry food (wet one doesn't work).
 
I have an IBD kitty. Like Wendy, I use a pre-mix with raw food. I don't have easy access to some of the more exotic foods. I've used ground lamb, pork, and venison that I get at Whole Foods. I've also used a couple of flavors of ZiwiPeak (i.e., venison and the rabbit and lamb combo). I like their canned food since it doesn't contain gums or carrageenan.

I've used ReNew Life probiotics. They have a great line of various probiotics. If you're looking for something specifically for diarrhea, try S. boulardii. It's very effective. You start with about 1/4 of a capsule mixed into food and gradually increase. There's information about probiotic on the link that Wendy provided for FoodFurLife.
 
Sienne and Gabby (GA) said:
I have an IBD kitty. Like Wendy, I use a pre-mix with raw food. I don't have easy access to some of the more exotic foods. I've used ground lamb, pork, and venison that I get at Whole Foods. I've also used a couple of flavors of ZiwiPeak (i.e., venison and the rabbit and lamb combo). I like their canned food since it doesn't contain gums or carrageenan.

I've used ReNew Life probiotics. They have a great line of various probiotics. If you're looking for something specifically for diarrhea, try S. boulardii. It's very effective. You start with about 1/4 of a capsule mixed into food and gradually increase. There's information about probiotic on the link that Wendy provided for FoodFurLife.
Click to expand...

That’s interesting Sienne, thanks. Did you use those meats because you were eliminating poultry from the diet? That’s what I’m going to have to do I think, try other proteins. The hydrolysed diets look horrible. Only issue here is that my Sapphire has ckd and I’ve heard venison is very high phosphorus.
Thanks for the info on probiotics. Not sure if they’re available in the UK but I’ll have a look.
 
I have a cat who cannot eat chicken, immediately gets diarrhea, but she can eat turkey with no problem. So you may not have to eliminate all poultry just because she is not doing well on chicken.
We have another cat who gets diarrhea if he eats fish. Since we have four cats and keeping different foods separate is pretty much impossible, we are feeding them all Fancy Feast Classic Turkey & Giblets Feast Canned Cat Food, which is a pate, so it's also good for our toothless cat, who also needs low carbs to keep him from needing insulin. I know many people consider FF to be junky food, but I have four beautiful, happy, healthy cats eating it, and it has solved our no-chicken-no-fish problem as well..
 
After using this site for almost 2 years to get my 2x pancreatits cat to controlled diabetes, and now almost completely off the juice, I wanted to just say that I thought my cat had developed IBD or food intolerance because of the diabetes etc etc etc...but it was gums and carrageenan. His constant diarrhea was so foul we had to literally bag it and put it outside immediately. Removed all the guar gum, carrageenan, and every other kind of gum (agar agar seems to be ok in small amounts) from his canned food and he almost instantly had completely normal stools. I (and now my vet as well) have a suspicion that a lot of IBD cats just have an intolerance to gums (which happens to people as well). Some of these diabetic friendly brands, like Weruva, are FULL of gums.

Low carb gum free canned foods (there arent many choices, but I did enormous amounts of research):
Instinct Chicken Pate
Rawz 96% Chicken and Chicken Liver Pate
VēRUS Chicken Pâté Formula
Essence Air and Gamefowl
Nutrisource Pure Vita Chicken

The above brands may also have alternate protein formulas that are mathematically acceptable for low carb/no gum. I have a spreadsheet we created called the "Cat Food Carbulator" if anyone needs a copy to use as a fast calculator of carbs from GA or TA.

Anyway just wanted to mention the gums/carrageenan. Its a much easier potential fix.
 
Fivecatsare said:
After using this site for almost 2 years to get my 2x pancreatits cat to controlled diabetes, and now almost completely off the juice, I wanted to just say that I thought my cat had developed IBD or food intolerance because of the diabetes etc etc etc...but it was gums and carrageenan. His constant diarrhea was so foul we had to literally bag it and put it outside immediately. Removed all the guar gum, carrageenan, and every other kind of gum (agar agar seems to be ok in small amounts) from his canned food and he almost instantly had completely normal stools. I (and now my vet as well) have a suspicion that a lot of IBD cats just have an intolerance to gums (which happens to people as well). Some of these diabetic friendly brands, like Weruva, are FULL of gums.

Low carb gum free canned foods (there arent many choices, but I did enormous amounts of research):
Instinct Chicken Pate
Rawz 96% Chicken and Chicken Liver Pate
VēRUS Chicken Pâté Formula
Essence Air and Gamefowl
Nutrisource Pure Vita Chicken

The above brands may also have alternate protein formulas that are mathematically acceptable for low carb/no gum. I have a spreadsheet we created called the "Cat Food Carbulator" if anyone needs a copy to use as a fast calculator of carbs from GA or TA.

Anyway just wanted to mention the gums/carrageenan. Its a much easier potential fix.
Click to expand...

Thanks, I’ve also heard about gums, thickeners etc being bad for GI issues. It’s difficult to find the culprit(s) without lots of elimination trials. I’m currently considering raw.
 
UPDATE: Instinct has changed their formulas!! Warning to any IBD / Gum Sensitivity cats, I didn't notice they changed until my cat had developed bloody diarrhea and I could not figure out why, so I read the label and reading the newer reviews this is happening to a lot of cats...do not use their food.
 
Sheba developed diarrhoea out of the blue before she feel out of remission in 2015. I eventually took her off the food she had been eating since she got diabetes and the diarrhoea stopped. I switched her to a raw diet, amd no more diarrhoea.
With Clover, a civvie, she used to get intermittent diarrhoea (and itchy around the eyes and watery eyes periodically) and with a process of elimination I took her off chicken and pork. She gets S Boulardii every day and I give her SEB powder with her breakfast each day and she is now pretty much free of all the problems.
 
I am going through something similar with Simon. The vet wants to start him on a hydrolyzed protein diet for a month and then re-evaluate him to see if how well it is working. I have been researching the options for canned hydrolyzed food and it is very limited. There seem to be more options for dry food which is something I do not want to go to. All of the foods are very expensive too. Right now I am going to try Hills Z/D since I can buy individual cans with a prescription from PetSmart. Every place else sells it by the case and I don't want to spend that much until I know he will eat it.

Since I have 6 cats, keeping Simon out of the other cats food is going to be very difficult long term. So I am already exploring changing all of my cats over to a raw food diet. I can't afford to feed all of them canned hydrolyzed or novel protein food. My whole paycheck would go to feeding them. :nailbiting:
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top