not eating enough?

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equine99

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Since shortly after snowflake's diagnosis, I switched both of my cats from only free grazing on dry food to free grazing on wet food, and feeding my non-diabetic cat midnight, as much dry food as she will eat while I stand over her in the mornings and evenings (she's incredibly healthy, a super picky eater, and I still like the teeth cleaning properties of dry)--maybe it totals 1/4 cup/day total? I won't feed them if there's still food in their dish, and it usually ends up that they go through about one 5.5oz can per day. They're both small cats--about 7 pounds each--and they're indoor only and sleep a lot. I don't know how much they ate before because I just let them graze and eat as much as they wanted because they did a great job of maintaining their weight on their own, but the cans all say one can per 8lb of cat, and so it seems they're eating about half of what they should. Should I be concerned? is this very unusual or sort of normal?

Thanks for your input in advance!

-Kathryn
 
equine99 said:
Since shortly after snowflake's diagnosis, I switched both of my cats from only free grazing on dry food to free grazing on wet food, and feeding my non-diabetic cat midnight, as much dry food as she will eat while I stand over her in the mornings and evenings (she's incredibly healthy, a super picky eater, and I still like the teeth cleaning properties of dry)--maybe it totals 1/4 cup/day total? I won't feed them if there's still food in their dish, and it usually ends up that they go through about one 5.5oz can per day. They're both small cats--about 7 pounds each--and they're indoor only and sleep a lot. I don't know how much they ate before because I just let them graze and eat as much as they wanted because they did a great job of maintaining their weight on their own, but the cans all say one can per 8lb of cat, and so it seems they're eating about half of what they should. Should I be concerned? is this very unusual or sort of normal?

Thanks for your input in advance!

-Kathryn

Hi Kathryn,
I just wanted to give you a good site for info about food and in particular, the myth that dry food is good for the teeth.
http://catinfo.org/

Here's a bit of the info for you:
Dental Disease: Long-standing claims that cats have less dental disease when they are fed dry food versus canned food are grossly overrated, inaccurate, and are not supported by recent studies. This frequently stated (among veterinarians and lay people) myth continues to harm cats by perpetuating the idea that their food bowls need to be filled up with an unhealthy diet in order to keep their teeth clean.

The idea that dry food promotes dental health makes about as much sense as the idea that crunchy cookies would promote dental health in a human.

First, dry food is hard, but brittle, and merely shatters with little to no abrasive effect on the teeth. Second, a cat's jaws and teeth are designed for shearing and tearing meat - not biting down on dry kibble. Third, many cats swallow the majority of their dry food whole.

There are many factors – known and unknown - that contribute to dental disease in the cat such as genetics, viruses, diet, and the fact that cats do not brush their teeth like humans do. There remain many unanswered questions concerning the fact that cats often suffer from poor dental health but one very obvious answer lies in the fact that Man feeds the cat a diet that does not even come close to what they would eat in their natural state.

When cats consume their prey in the wild, they are tearing at flesh, hide, bones, tendons, and ligaments. This is a far cry from the consistency of dry or canned food.

Neither dry kibble nor canned food comes close to mimicking a cat’s normal diet of mice, birds, rabbits, etc. Given what a cat does eat in nature, it makes much more sense to be feeding part of the diet in the form of large chunks of meat (as large as you can get your cat to chew on) or gizzards (tough and fibrous) which a cat’s teeth are designed to chew. Raw meat is ‘tougher’ to chew than cooked meat so I prefer to use raw – or parboiled - meat to promote dental health. See Making Cat Food - Dental Health.

Notice the phrase “part of the diet” in the above sentence. It is very important to understand that plain meat (ie - without bones or another source of calcium) is very unbalanced since there is minimal calcium in meat. Remember that when a cat eats his normal prey, he is consuming the bones along with the meat.
 
Thanks for the information. However, unfortunately any non-fish based wet food (every single one I've tried) that I've given to midnight (my non-diabetic cat), she has barfed up within minutes (like, the entire contents of her stomach barfed up, not just a little). I know it isn't healthy to only eat fish based food, so I figured some dry (duck and pea formula from natural balance) food is worth it for the nutritional variety, considering she has no health problems at all and has eaten it her whole life. I'm able to feed snowflake fancy feast in non-fish flavors, so I'm not worried about her as much.

As to the dry food and its relationship with clean teeth--I'm just going by what I've personally experienced. My cats are 14 and have never had to have their teeth cleaned. Several vets in the past few years have commented on how amazed they are at how clean their teeth are given their age. So I'm not sure what else to attribute it to since I'm assuming little street kitties from NYC don't have uniquely outstanding genes for clean teeth, and their whole lives up to March 1 they were only on dry food.
 
equine99 said:
As to the dry food and its relationship with clean teeth--I'm just going by what I've personally experienced. My cats are 14 and have never had to have their teeth cleaned. Several vets in the past few years have commented on how amazed they are at how clean their teeth are given their age. So I'm not sure what else to attribute it to since I'm assuming little street kitties from NYC don't have uniquely outstanding genes for clean teeth, and their whole lives up to March 1 they were only on dry food.

Dry food doesn't clean teeth, so I would say that you are fortunate to have cats with good genes. Here's a great article written on the subject by a vet: http://www.littlebigcat.com/health/does-dry-food-clean-the-teeth/ My Gabby ate dry food only for the first 11 years of her life, and she had awful teeth and needed several extractions when I finally got rid of the dry. Bandit ate dry only for the first 6 years of his life, and he now only has 2 teeth left in his mouth (the teeth needed to be pulled before the switch to canned food).


The big problem with dry food is that the lack of moisture and high carbohydrate content can cause all sorts of nutrition related ailments in life, as you've already discovered with Snowflake. Two significant diseases related to dry diets later in life are renal disease and urinary tract problems because of chronic dehydration caused by dry food. Here's a wonderful vet's web site that explains further: http://catinfo.org/

How much food did you give to your non-diabetic cat when she vomited? I can't feed Bandit more than 1/4 of a 5.5 oz can or 1/2 a 3 oz can at a time or else he'll barf the whole thing right up because he eats too fast. Is it possible this is your problem? I solved the problem by feeding Bandit in smaller, more frequent meals. Unless she has a food allergy, she shouldn't be vomiting canned food. And if it is a food allergy, there are many options for canned foods that don't contain beef or chicken (like Duck or Venison based foods), which would be a healthier option for her.
 
Just weight the cats periodically, like weekly. If the are loosing weight (assuming they are at their ideal weight), feed more. If gaining, feed a little less.
 
She doesn't barf when I feed her fishy canned food (TJ's tuna for cats or soulistic), and I've tried mixing 1/2 fishy with 1/2 non-fishy and she barfs that up too. Plus, I work full time so I can't regulate how much she eats at once (ie, no 5 feedings a day), and I try to make sure there's always something out for snowflake in case she needs to eat to bring her bg up, but it has to be something they can both eat because I can't keep them separated the whole day. The canned duck/venison foods that I've found aren't as high in protein as other wet foods so I want to keep snowflake off of them. Keep in mind, I'm not leaving dry out. I'm putting some in a bowl while I stand over them for 5 min in the morning and evening and whatever midnight doesn't eat in that time goes back in the container and then she just has the fishy wet food to graze on for the rest of the day, which she is fine with.
 
equine99 said:
She doesn't barf when I feed her fishy canned food (TJ's tuna for cats or soulistic), and I've tried mixing 1/2 fishy with 1/2 non-fishy and she barfs that up too. Plus, I work full time so I can't regulate how much she eats at once (ie, no 5 feedings a day), and I try to make sure there's always something out for snowflake in case she needs to eat to bring her bg up, but it has to be something they can both eat because I can't keep them separated the whole day. The canned duck/venison foods that I've found aren't as high in protein as other wet foods so I want to keep snowflake off of them. Keep in mind, I'm not leaving dry out. I'm putting some in a bowl while I stand over them for 5 min in the morning and evening and whatever midnight doesn't eat in that time goes back in the container and then she just has the fishy wet food to graze on for the rest of the day, which she is fine with.

So do you think the problem could be caused by eating too fast? Is it possible she doesn't wolf the fishy foods as quickly as the others and that's why she doesn't vomit?

I also work a full time job (with an hour commute each way), and a part time job on the weekends, so I'm not home during the day to feed Bandit. I freeze portions of food and put them in an autofeeder like this one. A lot of people here have this feeder, also. That way you can directly control how much they're eating at each meal. When I had two cats, I used one feeder for each cat and set them at opposite ends of the kitchen, where they received all of their regular meals as well.

It's better to feed a food that's a little lower in protein than fish for every meal, especially if the cat is older. Fishy foods are usually pretty high in phosphorus, and with cats over the age of 12 (especially if they've been fed dry most their lives), it's a good idea to feed a lower phosphorus food because they're likely they have some loss of kidney function. Here's an updated food chart for many premium foods that have single ingredients--so if it is a food allergy to beef or chicken, you could try something like Merrick's Before Grain Turkey: https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B8Uu8g1u8Su9YTgxNGE1MDItM2MyMC00Y2Y3LWI4ODMtMzhkYTkxOGM4NThk/edit. You could also buy a can of the chicken and beef, and feed one or the other and see which protein source is actually making her sick, if that is the case and not an it's not an eating too fast thing.
 
It could be an eating too fast thing, because she does enjoy the non-fishy ones, but how do you slow them down? I usually feed about 1/4 of a can each in the mornings then about 1/8 can each when I get home from work and then when I go to sleep. I'd worry that with the automatic feeders, one of them would get to the food and eat all of it (because it'd become an emotional thing to hear the feeder rotate), leaving nothing for the other one until it rotated again, and I don't want snowflake to not have food there when she needs it, since there would have to be a very small amount of food in each portion so midnight didn't get sick...
 
The way I have managed to slow down my scarf & barf kids is to invest in large ceramic pie pans. Then I take 1/2 a can of food (feeding 16 here at the moment) mix it with enough water to make it about the same consistency as applesauce and spreading that out over the whole pan so they have to work for it. When it comes to mealtime around here there are 12 cats that eat out of 6 pie plates on the floor, one anti-social semi-feral girl that eats on the kitchen counter (she is food aggressive) and 2 diabetics plus one little girl that is very shy that eat in my bedroom. It's quite a routine but it works for us.

Mel, Maxwell, Musette & The Fur Gang
 
equine99 said:
It could be an eating too fast thing, because she does enjoy the non-fishy ones, but how do you slow them down? I usually feed about 1/4 of a can each in the mornings then about 1/8 can each when I get home from work and then when I go to sleep. I'd worry that with the automatic feeders, one of them would get to the food and eat all of it (because it'd become an emotional thing to hear the feeder rotate), leaving nothing for the other one until it rotated again, and I don't want snowflake to not have food there when she needs it, since there would have to be a very small amount of food in each portion so midnight didn't get sick...

Ah, so you do have a puker! I know that feeling. :-D She probably likes the non fishy foods better, which is why you have the wolfing/barfing problem with them. Bandit does the same thing!

A simple solution might just be freezing the food to leave out--she's not going to be able to wolf down a frozen chunk of food and will have to eat at it slowly as it thaws. I couldn't do this with Bandit and Gabby because Bandit would sit there and gnaw at the frozen food, while Gabby wouldn't touch the frozen food until it was fully thawed, so he would end up eating both portions. But if you're free feeding canned already, this might not be a problem for you.

The other option is to get two feeders--one for each cat, and set them to go off at exactly the same time. I'm not sure how easy that is to do with the PetSafe feeder, but with mine (the yellow one) you can do it easily. Both cats come running for food at the same time, and if you get each cat used to eating at opposite ends of the kitchen in the same spots for every meal (or whatever room you feed them in), and then put their feeders at each cat's spot, that's where they will each run when they hear it. I had to do this because one of my cats (Bandit) would hog all the food and then try and eat the picky cat's food, so I fed them small portions via the feeder so that Gabby would eat hers all in one sitting.

I set the feeders to go off at Bandit's nadir (halfway through his cycle), which would be the lowest number of the cycle. That way he always had a food boost at that time in case he went too low. You could do that, and feed 4 times a day. Or if you wanted to feed 5-6 times a day (I did this for a while too because of Gabby's health conditions), you can set the feeders for 4 hrs after the shot, and then again at 6 hrs after the shot. If you know when your cats nadir usually occurs, you can predict a time to set the feeders just in case he drops a little. Bandit's nadir was 6 hrs after his injection, but we used a different insulin, so Snowflake's might be a little earlier than that.

Once you remove the dry food, at 7lbs each, they should each get about 3/4 of a 5/5oz can a day, or 1/2 can of a higher calorie food like Wellness or EVO. But, every cat is different so you can always adjust the amount of food up and down depending on their weight.
 
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