Normal curve for OTJ cats

[MykAmron&Elliot]

Hi,

Quick question; Elliot has been off insulin for a little over a week. We are doing a curve at home and without insulin his numbers are: before breakfast 6:10am 6.8 +2=4 +4=3.9 +6=4.1

I am happy his numbers are so low but I would have thought that, without insulin, his numbers would rise after breakfast not fall. Or am I misunderstanding how food impacts blood glucose?

 

[kate and lucky]

Hi,

the way I'm reading your post, that is a drop.
These are excellent non-diabetic numbers. Kitty is producing his own insulin to bring bg's back down. Only time to worry is if you start to see a gradual rise in numbers.

We never made OTJ, but I think people tended to monitor fairly closely for a round a month, then start dropping off. Mainly pre shot tests and the odd spotcheck a few hours later.(visit honeymooners if your worried too)

Some cats have dawn phenomenom (least that's what it's been termed as seems to be a similar thing) whereby kitty has higher bg in the morning. In humans it's been stated this is probably the body preparing itself for the day. Bit like starting up a car engine and warming the car before using it in winter.

Way to go :mrgreen:

 

[Monique & Spooky]

Nice numbers!

If your cat is not recieving insulin doing a "curve" isn't nesassary unless you are just curious (without insulin there really isn't a "curve" so to speak). It is typical to see lower numbers in an OTJ cat several hours after eating. Insulin is a hormone which is controlled by a series of feedback mechanisms and BG is tightly controlled by the body. When BG begins to drop (empty stomach) and the levels of availble glucose from the last meal are dwindeling the liver is signaled to release glucose which it has stored (the extra from the last meal which wasn't used immediatly) the BG then rises so we have energy availble. When the cat then consumes breakfast the BG will rise even more but only very breifly because the body will send a signal to the pancreas that BG is rising and it will then release insulin which quickly sweeps up the sugar which is being digested and dumped into the blood. The insulin will transport the excess sugar directly to the cells (muscles etc.) to be used for immediate energy and any excess will be taken to the liver for storage. Now the BG may be somewhat lower than it was before eating. This is a sign that kitty's pancreas is working properly. This observation is typical in most animals and often more pronounced in diabetics in remission because the weakend pancreas is often not as quick and effecient as a fully healthy one so BG can have a wider range and the reaction time may be slightly delayed.

Typically once a cat stops recieving insulin we test just 2x a day (morning and evening before meals) and as long as the number is in the normal range we smile and go about buisness as usual. If it is higher than normal we simply feed the cat and check it again after 2-3 hours to look for that drop you are seeing in your curve, which tells us that the pancreas is still doing it's job and kitty is producing his own insulin. After 2 weeks and the BG being stabil without any insulin shots we call it a honeymoon and continue to do a random test every few weeks (at least 1x per month) and watch for any signs that something isn't right (return of symptoms...peeing, drinking etc.)

Congratulations!

 

[MykAmron&Elliot]

Thanks for the responses; they make a lot of sense to me, especially the role of the liver in releasing stored glucose. Elliot finished off the day with a +8=4.1 +10=4.6 and +12=4.7

We had been testing twice a day but the vet wanted us to do a curve off insulin for some reason. She said that if that went well they would have Elliot in for the fructosamine test and to make sure his bladder infection was gone.

His rapid response has me thinking that his diagnosis numbers were triggered by the infection. My understanding is that diabetes is very rare in otherwise healthy cats under 7 years old, so Elliot who is 5.5 years is a bit of a statistical outlier as he has no other ailments except being obese. Either that or younger diabetic cats are more prone to remission. Either way, here is hoping for a nice long honeymoon.

 

[Monique & Spooky]

certainly an infection can initiate or worsen diabetes. I doubt an infection alone is the cause but in a cat that is predisposed or becoming boarderline diabetic it can certainly tip the scales enough so that the BG rises and the whole process is set into motion. Diabetes makes diabetes worse....if that makes any sense? Being diabetic means having a poorly functioning pancreas and high levels of blood glucose, which in turn causes more damage to the pancreas (glucose is actually toxic to the insulin producing cells) the longer the BG remains high the more damage occurs. In a subclinical diabetic whos pancreas is not functioning 100% the presence of an infection can cause a chain reaction of inflammatory cytokines and certain stress hormaones which raise BG to diabetic levels, the weak pancreas cannot deal with this overload and can "burn out" trying, at the same time the high glucose levels cause further damage to the beta cells a vicious circle. The sooner the diabetes is diagnosed and treated (including treating any infection which impeads be able to get the BG lower) the better the chances are for remission. Although it is MORE COMMON in "senior" cats (people as well) and often considered a condition of aging it is not RARE to find it in younger animals and people. More and more younger people are developing diabetes nowadays. The reasons are multi level, high rates of obesity, lack of excercise, poor nutrition, and the fact that awareness of symptoms and diagnostics being more sensitive people are diagnosed sooner than in the past decades doctors are also more likely to test for and consider the diagnosis in younger individuals because they realize it is not so "uncommon" as once belived. I think this holds true to our pets as well, people are frequently feeding thier pets like they feed themselves, out of "love" or to fill a need or based upon bad information from pet food companies trying to sell thier product by appealing to the humans tastes or understanding of "good nutrition". Afterall we see the advertisements and do the shopping....veggies and grains are good for you right? And because pussy gobbles it up gets so excited about it it must mean it's good for him too! Well little kids like twinkies and potato chips and eat them happily but it doesn't mean it's a good diet!

My Spooky was just barely 3 years old when he became diabetic, not a typical case either. He was also eating a horrible diet of Purina one dry food and possibly had a mild attack of pancreatitis (possibly combined with a genetic predisposition) which set things in motion. It took nearly a year to get him into remission, the biggest holdback was due to the difficulty in getting him off the "junk-food" and eating a low carb canned diet. We eventually won the battle and he has been OTJ for 9 months. He will turn 5 years old in 2 weeks.