no big surprise, I need more guidince

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Connie & Em(GA)

Connie & Em(GA)

Member Since 2011
OK, I'm the first to admit that my schedule doesn't allow for doing "tight protocol" and I feel like a bit of a failure for that. And as previously stated, I'm still have old insulin protocols ingrained in my brain so Lantus still leaves me highly confused.

I was told to give her 2 units by the shelter, but now that she's on low carb food and stable (aka eating after not eating due to URI) I've got her on 0.5 units.

I started to get a curve yesterday:

AMPS 212
+3 186
+5 217
PMPS 278

So I was thinking that 0.5 wasn't enough. It was the third day of giving that particular dose, and I thought heck, I'll give it one more day at that dose and see what happens.

AMPS 198

say what?? um.. Ok then. unfortunately I couldn't get any testing done today, but then:

PMPS 303

I gave another 0.5u

I'm wondering if maybe I've got rebound going on.. that maybe 0.5 is still too much?


and no, I really don't have any other good data because I've only had her such a short time and a lot of that she was sick and not eating well.

Connie
 
I'd continue with the .5 u and see how she does.. Granted not eating and then adjusting to low carb diet can get you weird numbers. I try to get a am reading at least a +6 or +7 and a pm reading. That will give you the numbers to at least see where she is. Id' try for another curve when you get time. So, keep doing the pre shot tests and if you can get one at lunch or whenever you get the chance even if it's a weird time, I'd try. I try to get another test on Sammy after I get home from work. I to don't have time to do all those tests and want to save my kitty's ears. Just don't skip a shot. Ask for eyes if she starts going to low or get over to the other Lantus site for help. You might put your last post over there too. They'll help. :-D
 
HI Connie,

How long have you been on the 0.5U? Do you know if the shelter had worked their way up to 2U or just gave her that based on weight?

If you have been on the 0.5 for a while now and getting numbers like that the whole time, I would lean towards not enough insulin instead rebound. I don't see much for really low numbers there. The 187 is a little lower, but if that is the lowest and the 0.5 and food change have been given time to settle then it is more likely going to be too low of a dose in my opinion.

If you have just started the new diet and 0.5 in the last few days, give it some more time to settle. If the 2U was too much, let the shed drain some more before adjusting the dose.

If you can find a few spots to catch an extra mid-cycle poke here and there, it will help you see if there are low numbers to be bouncing off of.

Even if you don't have a lot of numbers to go in it, a spreadsheet with what you do have can help. Numbers or patterns may emerge that aren't apparent until the numbers are assembled and history is there at a click.
 
Hi Connie,

If she were mine, I'd hold the dose and try to get some more tests at the +6 to +8 range. You might have a better handle on what to to if you can find her "nadir." That is the point where she consistently has the lowest number. With Lantus, sometimes it is +7 or +8 rather than +6.

Lantus is dosed primarily on the nadir, so finding it can be very important and helpful.

And yes, switching from PZI to Lantus is difficult. Switching from Lantus to Humalog in a pump is equally difficult. Trust me, it took almost 6 months to relearn everything when I switched to a pump. It's not just a change in insulin, it is a change in the way it works and how you work with it for both humans and cats.

Keeping both of you in my thoughts,

Claudia
 
Connie & Em(GA) said:
OK, I'm the first to admit that my schedule doesn't allow for doing "tight protocol" and I feel like a bit of a failure for that. And as previously stated, I'm still have old insulin protocols ingrained in my brain so Lantus still leaves me highly confused.

I was told to give her 2 units by the shelter, but now that she's on low carb food and stable (aka eating after not eating due to URI) I've got her on 0.5 units.

I started to get a curve yesterday:

AMPS 212
+3 186
+5 217
PMPS 278

So I was thinking that 0.5 wasn't enough. It was the third day of giving that particular dose, and I thought heck, I'll give it one more day at that dose and see what happens.

AMPS 198

say what?? um.. Ok then. unfortunately I couldn't get any testing done today, but then:

PMPS 303

I gave another 0.5u

I'm wondering if maybe I've got rebound going on.. that maybe 0.5 is still too much?


and no, I really don't have any other good data because I've only had her such a short time and a lot of that she was sick and not eating well.

Connie
Click to expand...

Connie,
There are 3 tests that are most important.
amps and pmps because you want to know if it's safe to give a shot, and then just before bed test because many cats go lower in the evening. Don't worry about getting tons of tests because it's impossible for people who are working and just not home during the week.

I would say just stick to the .5u dose until you know FOR SURE if it's too low, too high, or just right.
When you get a day off, just do a curve, testing every 2 or 3 hrs, and then you will have an idea how the insulin is working.
Just remember that you are dosing based on the lowest number in the cycles, and not those higher ps numbers.

Food will make numbers higher, as will being sick, so waiting till she is healthy and on low carb and you can do a curve.
Once you do a curve, you may find that the .5u is too much and that she dipped low in the middle of the cycle and then bounced up to the 303!

Lots of cats, once they are healthy again and eating low carb food, heal up and go off insulin, so maybe that's where you are headed! you are doing fine.....
 
well unfortunately she stopped eating again and has been vomiting for a few days. This particular kitty has a history of pancreatitis so she's been at the vet for a while. I'm getting a full report later today, but preliminary info says the vet is going to change the insulin she's on. Things may change after the blood work and xrays come back
 
a sad ending

She was vomiting and not eating, so she went to the vets on Thursday last week. She never left. They tried, but she apparently went down hill and given her history and how long it had been since she ate, they felt it was necessary to put her down. I know I shouldn't, but that doesn't stop me from feeling like I failed her somehow.

*sigh*

I can't save them all, I can simply love them while they are with me and accept that.
 
Hi Connie,

Even though I haven't introduced myself before, I had read through this thread before and hadn't responded b/c i dont know much about dosing, etc myself. But after reading your last post, I am so saddened to hear what happened. You didn't fail. You did everything you could and you loved her with all your heart. She knows that.

Big hugs.
 
Oh, Connie, I'm so sad and sorry to read about Em. My heart is with you now. We try so hard to bring our kitties back to good health, and very sadly, sometimes that just isn't possible. You have such a caring heart to foster a diabetic kitty like Em, Connie. Thank you for caring.

With Loving Hugs,
Eva
 
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