Newly(ish) Diagnosed With Diabetes And Looking For Help.

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Jessie & O.G.

Jessie & O.G.

Member Since 2020
Hello, My name is Jessie and my cat O.G. was recently diagnosed with Diabetes on July 22nd. I took him to the vet because I had noticed he was drinking 32oz of water and urinating it all out daily. Our vet kept him overnight to do a few tests and found that he was indeed diabetic and slightly overweight. Our vet said his BG was at around 300. From there she put him on high protein low carbs diet along with 1 unit of vetsulin twice a day at 7:00am & 7:00pm. We have been feeding him Wellness Core wet food as suggested by our Vet. We originally had him on 2.8oz of wet food after each insulin shot, but found that after a week he was acting extremely hungry. When we brought him back our vet had us up his morning meal to 5.3oz while keeping his evening meal at 2.8oz. I started noticing after his morning meal and insulin shot he would act very sleepy and I would feed him some freeze dried chicken treats being that both my boyfriend and I leave for work between 7:30-8am and I didn't want to leave O.G. in a sleepy state. A week later we went back to the vet to do a BG Curve and I informed the vet of his morning behavior. After the BG Curve my vet told me to drop him back to 2.8oz at both meals. After about 3 weeks of doing that the constant meowing drove me insane enough to try feeding him the 5.3oz at his evening meal to better watch him to see if he is actually just sleeping or if he is going into a hypoglycemic shock. After feeding him 2.8oz in the morning and 5.3oz at night and 1 unit of insulin at each meal for over a week he seems to be doing great.

I'm here looking for advice on a few different things:

1. I have been thinking strongly about starting to do my own BG Curve testing at home but I am unsure if I should talk to my vet first or if this is something I can start without discussing with my vet. If I would be able to start this on my own without discussing with my vet, where do I even begin?

2. After feeding O.G. only Wellness Core wet food I am finding myself spending around $100 every two weeks. As much as I love O.G. and will do anything for him, I would much appreciate something cheaper. I have noticed while switching between different flavors of the Wellness Core, O.G. did not like any pate, and any shredded meats would turn to very smelly runny poops, where as he loves any of the flaked fish flavors and they cause no bathroom issues. I'm just wondering if there is a few other options for food for him, or if it would work out to be cheaper, if I could switch to home making his meals and how to go about that.

I completely understand if I need to take him back and have these discussions with our vet, just trying to avoid making an appointment. Due to the current virus and the previous shutdowns our vet clinic has been backed up with appointments and is difficult to get another appointment within a reasonable amount of time.

Any help and advice would be wonderful!
Thank you for taking the time to read this post!
 
Hello Jessie and O.G., happy to have you here! (though not for the greatest circumstances)

Let me start by saying no, you do not need to have another vet appointment right now. Handling diabetes largely falls on the shoulders of the owner ... most of us don't take our cats for any sort of visits concerning our cats' diabetes, unless they are ill. We handle everything else on our own. Cheaper for us, and makes safer and happier cats.

Jessie & O.G. said:
1. I have been thinking strongly about starting to do my own BG Curve testing at home but I am unsure if I should talk to my vet first or if this is something I can start without discussing with my vet. If I would be able to start this on my own without discussing with my vet, where do I even begin?
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Nothing is stopping you from doing it yourself! I find a large portion of vets actually discourage this life-saving process. We test before every shot and do spot-checks between shots to see how low the insulin takes the kitty. Most of us don't even do curves, just spot-checks. It paints a better picture of what's going on. We'll be happy to teach you how, it's much more affordable than vet curves.

Jessie & O.G. said:
2. After feeding O.G. only Wellness Core wet food I am finding myself spending around $100 every two weeks. As much as I love O.G. and will do anything for him, I would much appreciate something cheaper. I have noticed while switching between different flavors of the Wellness Core, O.G. did not like any pate, and any shredded meats would turn to very smelly runny poops, where as he loves any of the flaked fish flavors and they cause no bathroom issues. I'm just wondering if there is a few other options for food for him, or if it would work out to be cheaper, if I could switch to home making his meals and how to go about that.
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There are many options for food - I'm impressed your vet mentioned Wellness Core. It is a good food but pricey. Most of us use Friskies Pate or Fancy Feast Classics ... since you say he does not like pates though, Fancy Feast Roasted is another option. In fact, anything on this list that is under 10% carbs (ideally under 5%) will be good for O.G. Most will end up being pates though!

Another thing that got my attention is the food limit. I know you said he's overweight, is he still overweight now? Unregulated diabetics need TWICE the amount of food in the beginning ... 20 calories per pound of ideal body weight, then multiply that by 2. That's how much he should be getting right now. You also don't want to limit food to twice a day, that's old-school and for dogs if I remember correctly. Cats need food available throughout the day to help the insulin from dropping too low and it is better on the pancreas to have multiple small meals vs two big ones. Keep the bigger meals for shot-time and give smaller ones throughout the day. We feed somewhere between 4-8 times per cycle (a cycle is 12 hours). We also feed at night, when they drop lower. A Petsafe 5 autofeeder is a lifesaver.
 
Hi Jessie and OG!

Panic has pretty much covered all the points. I would say to try and get home testing as soon as you can. My Douglas was diagnosed in July as well and I started home testing as the glucose curves at the vets was ridiculously expensive. I looked at the itemised receipt and they charged me £20 ($25) for 2 shots of insulin! I now test at home and every so often send the spreadsheet (courtesy of FDMB) to him with an idea of what I would like to do next. My vet is much more supportive now, perhaps he didnt believe that I would home test properly?!

One piece of advice I would give you don't need to buy the vet meters for home testing. I initially bought the Alpha Trak2 but realised it really was too expensive, especially if I wanted to collect as much data as I am trying to collect. A human meter works just as well and is a fraction of the price. I'm from the UK but read that Walmart have good prices. I am sure a US based member will point you in the right direction.
 
Great advice above.

How much-needed is your cats ideal weight? The rule of thumb is about 20 calories per pound of ideal weight. So say your cat should be 14 lbs, he would need about 280 calories. However while your cat is being regulated he may need extra calories because they can not properly utilize the nutrients.


I have a video in my signature showing how I test my cat CC at home.
 
Jessie & O.G. said:
We originally had him on 2.8oz of wet food after each insulin shot,
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I'm not a Vetsulin user but this (quoted above) caught my eye. Are you feeding anything at all before the shots?

From the BEGINNERS GUIDE TO CANINSULIN/VETSULIN sticky:
"An important note on when to feed your cat: Because Caninsulin/Vetsulin has an early onset, you want to have fed your cat 20 – 30 minutes before you give a shot. The order for this process is (1) test , (2) feed (3) wait 20 – 30 minutes (4) shoot."
 
What Jesse has said is correct. You need to make sure you feed your kitty 30 minutes BEFORE you give Vetsulin as Vetsulin hits hard and fast and you need to have food aboard to counteract the insulin.
Also it is much better to feed the same amount for all the cycles. Not less in the morning and more at night. That is not a safe way to manage feline diabetes
Are you feeding during the cycle as well as before the shots?
 
You already got awesome advice. Panic is always super detailed :bighug::bighug::bighug:

I agree with it all also very important to feed before the Vetsulin shot as mentioned already as well.

The only thing I want to add is that Vetsulin is also called caninsulin because it was designed for canines. Not all cats do well on it so something to keep in mind. That and the fact your vet has you feeding twice a day only makes me think he’s more of a dog vet and treating your cat like he would a diabetic dog. It doesn’t work the same way. Cats have a much higher metabolism than dogs and are typically grazers, so as mentioned, smaller meals throughout the day are easier on their already compromised pancreas.

Glad you found us. I use Walmart’s ReliOn myself which is a great reliable higher rated human meter with the most affordable test strips. That’s what gets pricey because you’ll go through strips very fast!
 
Wow!! Thank you all so much for all the helpful advice! I had no idea about a lot of these things. I have been following exactly what my vet had told me. Her orders were to feed him after his shot so that he would be excited to get his shot because it meant food as well as not to feed him anything besides his two meals twice a day. I did ask her about giving him a few treats daily as I love to spoil him and she said a few of the freeze dried chicken/turkey treats would be fine. We didn't actually ever discuss what kinds of insulin would be available or even what would be best for O.G. Our vet just handed us the bottle of Vetsulin and I assumed this was the only brand of insulin for all animals at the time. It didn't ever cross my mind to question what our Vet suggested or gave us because of how understanding and compassionate she had been with us while diagnosing O.G. and guiding us through our first few weeks. After the first few days I started to notice O.G. being more alert (he's not really an active or playful cat) than before, along with his thirst and urination amount going back down to a normal amount, leading me to believe we were on the right track.

We actually have very little information about O.G. in general. I've only had O.G. for almost a year. I got him from my co-worker who had him for approximately 6 months or so, and she had gotten him from a home that had multiple other cats, but the gentleman who took care of them passed away. Because of this, no one knows exactly how old O.G. really is. We have guessed him to be around 10-13. He is also a very big cat. I'm not sure if this is just because he is male or if he is just a really large cat. I'm not exactly sure how overweight O.G. is/was. I know when we first took him in he was 16.9lbs and had gone down to roughly 16.3lbs after his first week of being on his new diet and insulin. I don't actually know how much would be a healthy weight for him.

Another thing about O.G. is we were never able to have him just graze on food through out the day. Any time we would put out about 1/2 a cup of dry cat food he would instantly eat it all and beg for more. It was to the point I was feeding him almost 3 1/2 cups daily of dry food. I am definitely down to feed him more though out the day but I'm just curious to know if I were to purchase the Petsafe 5 auto feeder would I be putting wet food in it, or would I be able to do small amounts of a low carb dry food for the smaller meals without insulin through out the day when I am not at home and at night when I am sleeping? All while keeping his larger meals the wet food.

Lastly, the little I have read up about at home testing, is that if I were to purchase a glucose meter for humans, I would need to take it into my vet to get it calibrated. Is this true? I was originally planning on buying the Alpha Trak2 for convenience and piece of mind that it would not need to be calibrated and was built with animals in mind, but if I can save money by buying the Relion Glucometer form Walmart I would definitely do that.

I really truly appreciate all the help I have already received. I have been feeling at wits end the last month just trying to figure out the right and wrongs of caring for O.G. and all these messages have helped ease some of the fears and pains I have been struggling with. Thank you all!
 
Vets unfortunately know very little about diabetes ... and most of the diabetes they do understand is for canines. I have to wonder how vets learn about diabetes to begin with - there's nothing consistent about it! Some vets know about low-carb diets, some don't. Some know about feline-preferred insulins, some don't. Some recommend free-feeding, some don't ... it makes no sense!

I do not recommend using Vetsulin - as Ale said, it's designed for dogs, it works poorly in felines. We have 3 or 4 users on Vetsulin now that are really struggling and I've been urging them all the switch. It's just one more hurdle to tackle in the "sugar dance" and it's easy enough to eliminate it to make your life easier. I would show the 2018 AAHA Diabetes Management Guidelines for Dogs and Cats to your vet, it specifies that the recommended insulins for cats are Prozinc or Lantus. If you have the choice I'd go with Lantus, both are good but even a lot of Prozinc users end up having to switch over to Lantus to achieve regulation.

You can use this body condition chart to figure out where O.G. should ideally be on the weight scale. Even if he's overweight, we don't want him losing more than 1% of his weight in a week. Cats can get sick from dropping too much weight too fast.

The Petsafe 5 feeder doesn't dispense, it rotates, so yes you'd be putting wet food in it. :) You could use low-carb dry if you wanted, but there are currently one two kinds available, Dr. Elsey's and Young Again. They're both fairly expensive.

No calibration needed for meters - most of us use the ReliOn Prime meter from Walmart, it is the cheapest around at $0.18 a strip. We can't afford Alphatrak's test strips at $1 each! :P Pet meters are still a fairly new invention, human meters have been used in cats for decades now. The only thing you need to be aware of is that they run a little lower than pet meters (there is no conversion), so the only thing we need to do is be aware of the acceptable non-diabetic cat range in human meters, which is 50-120. You'll find all the info on this site is designed around human meters.

Hang in there! it's a lot to learn but you've got a great support team behind you! I'm going to put everything together for you at the bottom so you don't have to scroll everywhere looking for info, okay?

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Spreadsheet Instructions (if it's too confusing we can have a mod set it up for you)
Signature Instructions

Vetsulin Notes:

Vetsulin is a fast-acting insulin with a short duration in felines. It typically lasts 3-7 hours before petering out completely. This is because cats have a faster metabolism than dogs, which Vetsulin was designed for. You may find that your cat has high pre-shots constantly which are the result of the insulin not lasting the full 12 hours. You may also see the dose drop very early in the cycle, usually 1-3 hours after injection, and then sky-rocketing back up quickly after. These wild BG swings makes the cat feel pretty cruddy, which is why we don't recommend it. Think of it like only have enough painkillers to last you halfway through the day - that's what Vetsulin does. Keep food picked up 2 hours prior to pre-shot test time - we need that number to not be food-influenced. Throughout the day it does not matter when you test/feed, it's fine for those numbers to be food-influenced. Also be aware to test - feed- wait 30 minutes - then shoot. You do not need to test BG again right before you shoot. Right now, please don't give any insulin if kitty's pre-shot is below 200. You also do not want BG dipping below 90 on Vetsulin. It's best to feed frequently the first 1-4 hours after giving insulin to help slow the drop from insulin. This is specific to Vetsulin, other insulins are much gentler and don't require so much nerve-wracking attention.

Hometesting Kit:

Hometesting Tips and Tricks
ReliOn Prime glucometer - $9
ReliOn Prime test strips - $18 for 100
ReliOn Lancets 26 G (or 28 if unavailable) - $1-2 for 100
ReliOn Lancing Device (optional) - $6
Travel-size Vaseline - $1
Neosporin Ointment + Pain Relief (ointment only, NOT cream) - $6
Cotton Pads (optional) - $2
Rice Sock or Pill bottle w/ warm water (optional) - homemade

You can use any kind of human meter, however the one listed above is Walmart brand and has the cheapest strips available. Same goes for lancets. You do not need a lancing device if you prefer to poke freehand, it's just personal preference. Vaseline is for helping the ear to bead up, neosporin is for helping the ear to heal/prevent bruising after the poke. Just a little dab of each. Cotton pads are optional, some people like to use them as backing so not to poke themselves, then to hold the ear a moment after to prevent bruising and stop bleeding. You can use a paper towel or your fingers if you prefer. Rice socks can be used in the microwave a few seconds to heat up and rub on the ear to draw the blood to the ear; it can also be used as backing when poking the ear. A pill bottle with warm water in it is another alternative to warm the ear, whichever thing you prefer to use.

Hypo Kit Supplies:

Hypo Kit Toolbox
Karo Syrup - $3
A few cans of Fancy Feast Gravy Lovers Marinated Morsels/Sliced in Gravy/Grilled in Gravy varieties - $0.60 each (these are your medium-carb cans)
A few cans of Fancy Feast Gravy Lovers/Medleys Tuscany/Medleys Gravy in Sauce varieties - $0.60 each (these are your high-carb cans)

Medium Carb is 11-15%
High Carb is 16%+

You can also search through the catinfo chart while you're at the store to check which cans available are the ones you need. They don't HAVE to be Fancy Feast but they're fairly easy to find.
 
Bron and Sheba (GA) said:
What Jesse has said is correct. You need to make sure you feed your kitty 30 minutes BEFORE you give Vetsulin as Vetsulin hits hard and fast and you need to have food aboard to counteract the insulin.
Also it is much better to feed the same amount for all the cycles. Not less in the morning and more at night. That is not a safe way to manage feline diabetes
Are you feeding during the cycle as well as before the shots?
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Don't mean to hyjack, just wanted to say good to see you back again Bron :bighug::cat:
 
So sorry for all the questions, but I want to make sure I'm understanding how much I should be feeding O.G. Currently on the body condition score I would rate O.G. at a 5-6. I haven't weighed him yet, but for understanding sake, lets say he weighs 15lbs at an ideal weight. This means he should be getting 300 calories every cycle, meaning since our cycles are 7am-7pm and 7pm-7am during both day and night he would need to eat 300 calories? Making it a total of 600 calories every 24 hours? If this is the case, how would I handle night time while I sleep. Is this where the importance of the auto feeder comes into play?
 
Jessie & O.G. said:
So sorry for all the questions, but I want to make sure I'm understanding how much I should be feeding O.G. Currently on the body condition score I would rate O.G. at a 5-6. I haven't weighed him yet, but for understanding sake, lets say he weighs 15lbs at an ideal weight. This means he should be getting 300 calories every cycle, meaning since our cycles are 7am-7pm and 7pm-7am during both day and night he would need to eat 300 calories? Making it a total of 600 calories every 24 hours? If this is the case, how would I handle night time while I sleep. Is this where the importance of the auto feeder comes into play?
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No it would be 300 calories a day, feed him the larger meals at AM and PM then what's left over you can feed him that during the day cycle and night cycle. He would turn into an elephant if he ate 600 calories a day lol :cat:
 
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No no, that's right. Unregulated diabetics need twice as much food as non-diabetics. My girl was down to 4 lbs and was eating 400+ calories a day for a while. Make sure he gets 300 calories minimum, let him have up to 600 if he's not underweight.
 
Jessie & O.G. said:
If this is the case, how would I handle night time while I sleep. Is this where the importance of the auto feeder comes into play?
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Here's what I did ... speaking in terms of Fancy Feast cans which are roughly 100 calories each. My girl was severely underweight, should have been about 8 lbs but was 4 lbs. She ate between 12-15 oz of food a day, or 4-5 cans of Fancy Feast. I gave her one can for breakfast (100 cal), about 2 cans during the day (200 cal) and another can for dinner (100 cal) and then maybe about 1 can during the night (100 cal). Roughly, give or take. I let her eat whenever she wanted, but she was also very very underweight. She should have had about 180 calories a day for a normal cat, but I did not limit her to 360 calories.

Now if O.G. is on the chubbier side, we don't really want to encourage him to eat 600 calories. This article touches on how much to feed ... one suggestion was to give the appropriate amount of food (300 cal in this case) and add 3oz (about 100 cal or so) which puts you around 400 calories.

The autofeeder is helpful because cats need food available during the day and during the night ... most of us can't stay home all day giving snacks, and most of us need sleep at night. So the autofeeder takes care of that for us.
 
Panic said:
Here's what I did ... speaking in terms of Fancy Feast cans which are roughly 100 calories each. My girl was severely underweight, should have been about 8 lbs but was 4 lbs. She ate between 12-15 oz of food a day, or 4-5 cans of Fancy Feast. I gave her one can for breakfast (100 cal), about 2 cans during the day (200 cal) and another can for dinner (100 cal) and then maybe about 1 can during the night (100 cal). Roughly, give or take. I let her eat whenever she wanted, but she was also very very underweight. She should have had about 180 calories a day for a normal cat, but I did not limit her to 360 calories.

Now if O.G. is on the chubbier side, we don't really want to encourage him to eat 600 calories. This article touches on how much to feed ... one suggestion was to give the appropriate amount of food (300 cal in this case) and add 3oz (about 100 cal or so) which puts you around 400 calories.

The autofeeder is helpful because cats need food available during the day and during the night ... most of us can't stay home all day giving snacks, and most of us need sleep at night. So the autofeeder takes care of that for us.
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Thanks for clarifying Elizabeth, Jessie didn't know how much OG weighed so I was just going by if he weighed 15 lbs, thanks again I don't want to give her wrong info about how much to feed him :bighug::cat:
 
Hello Again,

So sorry for being absent I've just been learning everything I can and starting to prepare supplies. We've decided we'd like to do some testing on O.G. with the directions our vet gave us before switching to all the amazing advice you guys have given us just to monitor and see what exactly what is changing. We are looking to begin changing his food, giving his insulin after food, feeding him small meals through out the day, and increasing the amount of food he's going to be getting through out the day hopefully next week. We also have decided to continue to use the Vetsulin we have unless issues start to arise. Once we are close to finishing the bottle we have we will be discussing a change in the insulin with our vet.

I do have some questions of course. We've been working with O.G. for about a week on starting at home testing! We went to walmart to purchase the Relion Prime but they were completely out of tests strips for that version so we went with the Relion Premier classic instead. Today we successfully got our first actual poke and enough blood for a reading!! I'm just wondering what numbers I should be looking for. His BG today 8 hours after his shot was 143. I'm not sure if this is good or bad. I know Elizabeth said "The only thing you need to be aware of is that they run a little lower than pet meters (there is no conversion), so the only thing we need to do is be aware of the acceptable non-diabetic cat range in human meters, which is 50-120." as well as "Right now, please don't give any insulin if kitty's pre-shot is below 200." So please correct me if I'm wrong here, but since he is diabetic, 143 isn't a terrible BG if a non-diabetic cat BG is 50-120. And if his BG doesn't rise above 200 by the time of his next shot, I would give him food and skip his insulin shot for the night?

I'm so sorry for all the questions! I'm just trying to do the best for O.G.
Thank you all for being so helpful and understanding!
 
Jessie & O.G. said:
Hello Again,

So sorry for being absent I've just been learning everything I can and starting to prepare supplies. We've decided we'd like to do some testing on O.G. with the directions our vet gave us before switching to all the amazing advice you guys have given us just to monitor and see what exactly what is changing. We are looking to begin changing his food, giving his insulin after food, feeding him small meals through out the day, and increasing the amount of food he's going to be getting through out the day hopefully next week. We also have decided to continue to use the Vetsulin we have unless issues start to arise. Once we are close to finishing the bottle we have we will be discussing a change in the insulin with our vet.

I do have some questions of course. We've been working with O.G. for about a week on starting at home testing! We went to walmart to purchase the Relion Prime but they were completely out of tests strips for that version so we went with the Relion Premier classic instead. Today we successfully got our first actual poke and enough blood for a reading!! I'm just wondering what numbers I should be looking for. His BG today 8 hours after his shot was 143. I'm not sure if this is good or bad. I know Elizabeth said "The only thing you need to be aware of is that they run a little lower than pet meters (there is no conversion), so the only thing we need to do is be aware of the acceptable non-diabetic cat range in human meters, which is 50-120." as well as "Right now, please don't give any insulin if kitty's pre-shot is below 200." So please correct me if I'm wrong here, but since he is diabetic, 143 isn't a terrible BG if a non-diabetic cat BG is 50-120. And if his BG doesn't rise above 200 by the time of his next shot, I would give him food and skip his insulin shot for the night?

I'm so sorry for all the questions! I'm just trying to do the best for O.G.
Thank you all for being so helpful and understanding!
Click to expand...
143 is a good safe number. Congrats on your first test. Eventually you’ll work That closer to 100 but it’sa great number! Normal in a human meter is 50-120
 
Diane Tyler's Mom said:
Was that 143 his morning reading, please fill it in on your spreadsheet , so you skipped this morning?
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No, it wasn't his morning reading. It was the first reading we've ever done for him. I did fill in my spreadsheet after testing him but it must not have saved properly. The 143 was 8 hours after his morning shot. We are going to be trying another test within the next 30 minutes.
 
Jessie & O.G. said:
Hello Again,

So sorry for being absent I've just been learning everything I can and starting to prepare supplies. We've decided we'd like to do some testing on O.G. with the directions our vet gave us before switching to all the amazing advice you guys have given us just to monitor and see what exactly what is changing. We are looking to begin changing his food, giving his insulin after food, feeding him small meals through out the day, and increasing the amount of food he's going to be getting through out the day hopefully next week. We also have decided to continue to use the Vetsulin we have unless issues start to arise. Once we are close to finishing the bottle we have we will be discussing a change in the insulin with our vet.

I do have some questions of course. We've been working with O.G. for about a week on starting at home testing! We went to walmart to purchase the Relion Prime but they were completely out of tests strips for that version so we went with the Relion Premier classic instead. Today we successfully got our first actual poke and enough blood for a reading!! I'm just wondering what numbers I should be looking for. His BG today 8 hours after his shot was 143. I'm not sure if this is good or bad. I know Elizabeth said "The only thing you need to be aware of is that they run a little lower than pet meters (there is no conversion), so the only thing we need to do is be aware of the acceptable non-diabetic cat range in human meters, which is 50-120." as well as "Right now, please don't give any insulin if kitty's pre-shot is below 200." So please correct me if I'm wrong here, but since he is diabetic, 143 isn't a terrible BG if a non-diabetic cat BG is 50-120. And if his BG doesn't rise above 200 by the time of his next shot, I would give him food and skip his insulin shot for the night?

I'm so sorry for all the questions! I'm just trying to do the best for O.G.
Thank you all for being so helpful and understanding!
Click to expand...
It’s a great number especially at +8 with Vetsulin, which tends to wear off quickly. I’d post on the Vetsulin forum when you get the pmps for advice. If it’s lower than 200, you can always stall with no food for 20 minutes and test again to see if it’s going up. If it’s in the low 200s, I’d recommend you try your best to get a +2 tonight so you can see where he’s headed for the night. It’d be a good idea to start a new thread with “help pmps @xxx, do I skip shot? We try to keep threads short so you can copy and paste the link to this one on your first post of the new thread :cat:

Did you change any of his food yet?
 
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