Newly Dx-ed and SO hungry!

[LeanneandJeff]

Hi all,

I am new to this board and joined after Jeff, my 5 y/o tabby, was diagnosed 3 weeks ago. He was a big boy and lost a few pounds due to diabetes (about 14lbs down to 11lbs, probably more now that he's put on some weight after going on insulin). He had also been drinking many bowls of water a day/ urinating like crazy, and now after starting his insulin (Lantus, at first 1u 2x a day and now 1.5u 2x a day) he drinks much less (about 3/4 a bowl of water). The urination is way down, too. He has a lot more energy and is back to his normal chatty playful self! He is on a wet-food-only diet (Wellness) now, and lately he has just been SO HUNGRY. Which is where my questions come in.

It feels like his need for water / not eating a ton before his dx has totally reversed to the opposite now that he's on insulin. I don't really know what to make of that. I feed him two 5.5oz cans a day, sometimes three, which is a LOT more than recommended on the can for a cat his size. He is absolutely insatiable...wolfing down the whole portion in less than a few minutes almost without breathing through it, begging for more immediately afterward, trying to dig through the recycling to find the empty cans (and as a result driving me crazy), and sometimes being VERY hostile when he feels like I'm not listening to his requests for more food. He absolutely cannot deal with waiting the recommended 12 hours in between feeding/shooting; he for the first time ever bit one of my roommates incredibly deep and I am very worried about this, as the whole thing is stressing me, and my pocketbook, out.

I picked Wellness even though my vet recommended D/M because it had better ingredients and Jeff likes it. It also had better reviews/chances of getting cats stable...I also thought it would fill him up more than a food that has a lot of strange ingredients.

Please help, I do not make much money at ALL and the vet bills, medicine, etc. are just killing me, as well as the emotional commitment and social restrictions having a diabetic cat has put on my life and relationship this entire January. I was not prepared for this in any way Any advice will help. Thank you in advance.

Thanks,

Leanne and Jeff in Brooklyn

 

[KPassa]

When they're newly diagnosed and not yet regulated, they will be starving because their body is unable to process food properly. How did you used to feed Jeff before? Did you allow him to graze or did he have set meals? It might be a good idea to break up his food into smaller meals throughout the day. A lot of people here (including myself) use timed compartments for when we're going to be gone for a few hours.

Another secret is to add water to the food, which stretches it out further and also makes sure kitty is well-hydrated and not really needing water instead of food (cats in the wild naturally get the majority of their water from food, so they associate thirst with eating). This also helps keep the food from drying out if using a timed compartment. Some people also make "popsicles" with water and food and freeze them so by the time they defrost, it's time for the cat's next meal.

Here is a link to a discussion on this board about feeding cats as much as they want or limiting their meals.

The only real recommendation regarding food depends on the type of insulin you're using. I believe with PZI, it is mandatory the cat eats when the shot is given (I don't personally use it, so I could be wrong). With Lantus, it's important to not feed a cat 2 hours before his pre-shot blood-glucose test, if you're testing him (if not, it's highly suggested for you to start, which we can help you with if you want).

In the beginning, it's a hard road to start out on and can be rather intimidating and seemingly impossible, but you've found yourself at the right place! The people here are perhaps the most knowledgeable people in the world when it comes to feline diabetes and they'll be able to answer any questions you may have and offer assistance with anything you may need.

Welcome! And feel comforted knowing that you're no longer alone on this journey. :YMHUG:

 

[KPassa]

I also wanted to share this food list with you. Search for foods under 10% carbs and those should be okay to feed to Jeff. A lot of people here feed Friskies (Pates) or Fancy Feast (Classics), which might be cheaper options for you than Wellness, although Wellness is good too!

 

[Wendy&Tiggy(GA)]

Hello there

Its Wellness grain free you are feeding right? No kibble at all? Not even treats?

When my Tiggy was first diagnosed he wasnt eating properly because he felt so rough. We put him on insulin and he started feeling better but he was eating a lot. Once we got him more regulated he started eating at normal levels.

Problem is that its difficult to regulate a cat without testing his blood. Vets do it but the test they do "fructosamine" averages the blood over the month. so the cat could be spiking down to 50 and up to 500, or sitting steady at 275 - and the fructosamine test shows the same results. And if they are spiking up and down, then they arent regulated and it could be your issue. And vet curves are expensive.

Best way to resolve this? Home test his blood. It will let you know how he is really doing and you can change his dose based on that (we and your vet can help advise you on dose based on home tests).
Plus home testing keeps him safe. Its dangerous to shoot blind, he could be low and you shoot and he has a hypo.

Here is some more information on home testing and so on https://docs.google.com/document/d/1Rd6sMfsrNB41yQVEqpyjlHrJsDIbGEhbRIWR4QAwu3c/pub We also know of places that can give cheap or free test kits and other supplies.

Wendy

PS Lantus lasts six months if you keep it in the fridge, and its clear with no flakes or cloudiness.

 

[Squeaky and KT (GA)]

First WELCOME!

Eating - KT free-feeds from morning shot time until about 9 hours before his pm shot so doesn't get so hungry. Do you leave food down for him?

There's a chance that Jeff is going TOO LOW and needing food to bring him up. Without testing at home, you'd never know this. PLEASE PLEASE don't give insulin without home testing - if vet tells you different, they're WRONG. There's a good chance that my sweet boy would be in trouble RIGHT NOW if I didn't hometest. This morning his BG was 207 at his shot time. THREE HOURS LATER, he dove to 44 - a hypo number. If I hadn't caught it and fed him a little higher carb food then CONTINUE to test and feed for 2 hours, well...I don't even want to go there....EVER! Home testing isn't hard, it does NOT stress the cat, your cat won't hate you and it's NECESSARY! Walmart has a cheap human meter with cheap strips which works just fine. Don't let the vet tell you a human meter won't work either - works just fine. Don't let them sell you an expensive 'vet' test meter either - strips are EXPENSIVE and no need. Only difference between them is 'normal' for cats with a human meter is 50-120 while the Alphatrak pet is 80-150. We can teach you to test!

BIG HUGS!!!

 

[LeanneandJeff]

First of all, THANK YOU for all your responses so far. I had this message board recommended to me and I am so glad I have gotten some answers through this absolute madness!

KPassa - Jeff used to eat both wet and dry food, (Wellness after I learned that high-grains were bad for cats but he mostly just ate the dry), but one of my friend's had him for about 9 months while I was traveling and I don't know what he ate. When I got him back he no longer wanted wet food but only dry. Fast forward a few months later and it turns out this little dude is diabetic...I think he was mildly diabetic the time I got him back, and it got worse and worse until I realized something was definitely, unmistakably wrong.

Wendy & Tiggy - yes, Wellness grain free wet only, everything grain free. How much do fructosamine tests generally cost? :sad:

Squeaky & KT - no, he gets one meal before I leave for work and one meal in the evening. If he wasn't wolfing down the food he'd have enough to free feed, but he eats whatever I put down for him in a flash and then begs for more, no matter what quantity. He gets no dry food anymore though, so usually he just licks the bowl clean ASAP...


I will look into home testing. I have an appointment with Jeff's vet in a week or two for a fructosamine test...a little scared of the price of that, since I can't afford it right now. I am so strapped for money it's insane and this is pushing me over the edge between everything else I have to pay for...I'm under so much stress :?

 

[Denise & Honey]

hi Leanne and welcome to the board.

If you can do the home bg testing, you don't need the fructosamine test as your data would be more up to date.
My cat was dx in October and I didn't go back to the vet until this month when she got a cold. Apart from a script for lantus, I manage everything else myself.

This obviously save a lot of money - 1 of my other cats has hyperthyroidism which has to be stabilized by blood tests at the vets - $230 per set of tests, every 4 wks.
The diabetic has been much cheaper to treat!

Initially it does affect social life - I have 2 little kids and missed several weekends away, days out etc.. because I had to stay in to monitor Honey's bg.
Now, however, as she's very close to coming off lantus and is down to just 1 drop, apart from her shot times I'm pretty much free.

It really isn't that bad

 

[KPassa]

I will look into home testing. I have an appointment with Jeff's vet in a week or two for a fructosamine test...a little scared of the price of that, since I can't afford it right now. I am so strapped for money it's insane and this is pushing me over the edge between everything else I have to pay for...I'm under so much stress :?

Home testing is the cheapest and most economical way to treat diabetes. I have a very-hard-to-regulate kitten diabetic that keeps needing his dosage increased as he grows. After Mikey's official diagnosis back in October, my vet suggested that it would be best to bring Mikey in once a week for a full curve and dosage adjustment. Before Mikey ever went in for his first curve, I found this site and started home testing and Mikey hasn't been back to the vet since. (They're fine with that and the vet even has a link to his spreadsheet to see how things are going.)

After the initial upfront cost of the diagnosis and the insulin (the two most expensive things), the only two things I have to buy regularly are cat food (at ~$1-2 a day) and test strips (ReliOn Prime at $9 for 50 strips). Because of Mikey's unique situation, I do test much more frequently than most and go through about 50 to 100 strips a week. If you test the bare minimum (~4 times a day), that's still only an extra $9 every couple of weeks. In the long run $234 a year is a lot cheaper than the thousands it costs for bi-weekly/monthly curves and fructosamine tests, for treating a hypo, and/or for treating a DKA, not to mention the immeasurable emotional cost if anything happened to Jeff. I don't want to scare you, but if it weren't for home testing, Mikey would probably not be alive today.

For even more savings, you can click on the link at the top of the page for a free test kit, which should help some of the cost. It's also worth checking out the Supply Closet where people post about extra supplies they're wanting to get rid of, from lancets to test strips to even insulin!

First of all, THANK YOU for all your responses so far. I had this message board recommended to me and I am so glad I have gotten some answers through this absolute madness!

You're very welcome. I'm just trying to pay it forward. ;-) We've all been where you're at and you'll soon be where we're at.

 

[LeanneandJeff]

Update:

After talking to my vet, she recommended upping his Lantus dose to 1.5IU 2x daily. I increased gradually over two days the insulin dose. This only made matters worse...Jeff had even more amplified symptoms, yowling for food, bouncing off the walls with even MORE energy, attacking one of my roommates / chasing her more...and when fed, being even more insatiable directly after eating. Last night he knocked over an entire bookcase out of frustration. He also knocked over all the recycling and threw some cans around. It's getting ridiculous - Ugh! I called the vet again today, reporting the symptoms, and instead of telling me to go back down to 1IU 2x daily, she just recommended I do a urine dip with one of the Ketostix I have. Which, is hard enough by itself, but really isn't going to help me or Jeff immediately. Next week we are going in for a fructosamine curve but how accurate can that be if she changed his dose mid-month? So confused right now.

This is incredibly frustrating for me, and Jeff too poor boy, and I am not home enough hours of the day or night to home test (I have a very irregular work schedule, plus I have roommates who love Jeff and are happy to feed and play with him but do NOT want to be involved in this process, and no WalMart nearby to get a cheap kit quickly)...my money and patience are running out. I can't keep doing things like this!

Thanks so much for your help so far -- do you think the vet was wrong to up his dose? Should I keep giving him the 1.5IU until I see her again? Wouldn't upping his insulin dose make him have *less* energy instead of go crazy with more?

So confused,
Leanne and Jeff in Brooklyn, NY

 

[Blue]

Update:

After talking to my vet, she recommended upping his Lantus dose to 1.5IU 2x daily. I increased gradually over two days the insulin dose. This only made matters worse...Jeff had even more amplified symptoms, yowling for food, bouncing off the walls with even MORE energy, attacking one of my roommates / chasing her more...and when fed, being even more insatiable directly after eating. Last night he knocked over an entire bookcase out of frustration. He also knocked over all the recycling and threw some cans around. It's getting ridiculous - Ugh! I called the vet again today, reporting the symptoms, and instead of telling me to go back down to 1IU 2x daily, she just recommended I do a urine dip with one of the Ketostix I have. Which, is hard enough by itself, but really isn't going to help me or Jeff immediately. Next week we are going in for a fructosamine curve but how accurate can that be if she changed his dose mid-month? So confused right now.

This is incredibly frustrating for me, and Jeff too poor boy, and I am not home enough hours of the day or night to home test (I have a very irregular work schedule, plus I have roommates who love Jeff and are happy to feed and play with him but do NOT want to be involved in this process, and no WalMart nearby to get a cheap kit quickly)...my money and patience are running out. I can't keep doing things like this!

Thanks so much for your help so far -- do you think the vet was wrong to up his dose? Should I keep giving him the 1.5IU until I see her again? Wouldn't upping his insulin dose make him have *less* energy instead of go crazy with more?

So confused,
Leanne and Jeff in Brooklyn, NY

Go to Walmart or some pharmacy and pick up a Relion meter and some test strips. Begin home testing. The vet visits are expensive and very stressful on you and Jeff. The fructosamine test, which is also expensive, and that number is an average of your cat's BG numbers which is not any diff from the average you will have in your meter from your home testing.

Water drinking and hunger and howling are not ways to judge how Jeff's doing with any dose of insulin, but checking urine for ketones is great.

Feeding low carb wet food from the food list given above will help and you can also add water to the wet food Jeff to feel full sooner. Both of my cats ate alot until they were regulated....they were eating around 30oz and 24oz a day, but once regulated, they were down to maybe 10oz and 6oz. Forget about what it says on the cans; pet food companies tell you dry food is great for your cats! So much for what THEY know about nutrition....
Just in case it's not been given to you already, you can get just about all you need on nutrition for Jeff on Dr. Lisa Pierson's site .... catinfo.org

Once you are home testing, you will see how well or poorly the insulin is working for Jeff.
Without knowing any numbers, you don't know if he needs less or more insulin.

Please DO feed him a bit more food, and try to feed more frequently. Quite often, you can feed just about the same amount of food but instead of only 2 meals, 6 mini meals satisfies better.

 

[Wendy&Tiggy(GA)]

hello

Firstly, you really need to start home testing. Its the only way to keep him safe and prevent a life threatening hypo. You dont need to test all the time- we recommend before every shot and then a spot check or two during the day. Get a free kit from here or order a cheap Relion Prime from walmart.com

For example you could test:
1. before his morning shot
2. during the day once if you can do it (otherwise save this for weekends or when you have more time during the week)
3. before his evening shot
4. just before you go to bed.

My recommendation: Get a home testing kit asap

Secondly - if you do home testing you do not need to spend the $300+ on a curve at the vets. The vet curves are expensive, and because your cat will be stressed at the vet, his blood sugar will be high. The vet bases his dose on this too high level. When you bring the cat home, his blood sugar will drop to normal levels, but you are still giving him the same insulin dose. Then he has a hypo and if he is lucky you catch it and you spend $$ in vet bills to fix it. Or he might do it at night and be gone in the morning. Plus the fructosamine test averages the BG over a month. Since the dose has been up and down and you only had one done a couple of weeks ago it isnt going to tell him much. My recommendation: Skip the fructosamine test and do home testing!!

Thirdly - Its a good thing that he has a lot of energy. It shows the insulin is helping him convert the sugar to energy. Thats a good sign. However it sounds like he is really hungry and you may want to increase his food until you can get him regulated - give him what he needs just keep an eye to make sure he doesnt put too much on. My Tiggy beats up on Bailey when I dont feed him enough. My recommendation: Feed him more.

Wendy