Newly DX 2 year old diabetic kitty HIGH NUMBERS

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EllieKozak

EllieKozak

Member Since 2014
Hello everyone. Let me introduce myself. I am brand new to this site, but I am beyond impressed at the wealth of information I have gleaned from just a few days perusing all of the info. I am extremely overwhelmed by my sweet boy Charlie. I am a vet tech and Charlie came to me as a 3 day old kitten who was locked inside a cat carrier; in the middle of July with a littermate that unfortunately did not make it due to the severe dehydration. I nursed Charlie to health and even adopted a "sibling" named Sam that he could grow up with. He just turned 2 years old yesterday and 3 weeks ago he was diagnosed a diabetic. We have had a VERY tough time getting him regulated. He spent last weekend at the emergency hospital suffering from DKA. He is currently on 3 units of Prozinc BID, eating 3 low carb Fancy Feast cans daily and still his numbers are sky high. I am in the process of compiling a spreadsheet I will post very shortly. I want to get as much information and suggestions as possible because I feel like I am losing this battle that came on so hard and fast. He is such a sweet baby and SO YOUNG. Please help me help him.
 
Thank you for rescuing Charlie, first off.

While not unheard of, a two-year-old diabetic is out of the ordinary.

I have a couple of random questions.
How high is "sky high"?
How much does Charlie weigh, and did you see a rapid loss of weight prior to his diagnosis?
Has Charlie ever been given steroids for any reason?
Is the Prozinc doing "anything" to his numbers? Are you seeing some drop in levels a few hours after his shots?
 
Ditto what Carl wrote.

Nadir: the lowest glucose level between shots. Typically happens around +5 to +7 hours after a ProZinc shot. Aim to get some glucose tests in that period whenever you can as it helps determine dose adjustments.

Some unusual conditions can make for very difficult to control glucose levels. You may not be there yet. These include acromegaly, Cushings, Insulin autoantibodies (IAA), and insulinomas. There may be others.
 
Hello and thank you for the fast responses. Here is Charlie's spreadsheet. Can anyone tell me is this the correct way to display it for others? I would greatly appreciate any and all feedback/comments/suggestions. I want nothing more than to save Charlie, he is one in a million. He has never been given any steroids. He had a purevax rabies vaccine in April. No other vaccines were given. He was neutered at 6 months, and last November had a dental procedure to remedy a canine tooth that was interfering with the roof of his mouth. Other than that, he has been a happy healthy kitten. His second birthday was Sunday! I desperately want him to have many more. Please help! Let me know if I am doing anything wrong as far as where to post questions, upload spreadsheets, etc. Thanks again!

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc ... _web#gid=0
 
The spreadsheet show he is responding to the ProZinc. It also shows large swings and that 3 units might be too much. Can't really tell since you do not have any recent preshots BGs. Lantus or Levemir might work better.
 
I will get several readings today and post. Do you recommend every 2 hours or more/less frequently to get the best reading/set best plan?
 
The spreadsheet is done correctly.

We generally do increases in 0.25 to 0.5 unit increases so we don't miss the optimal dose. We hold the dose stable for specific periods, depending on what insulin it is. for Lantus and Levemir, you hold the dose for a minimum of 3 full days after the initial dose which is held at least 5-7 full days. For ProZinc and PZI, you want to hold it for at least 3 shots, with nadir testing (around -5 to +7 hours post shot).

Would you put the insulin in your signature - pop up to User Control Panel, Profile, Signature, and also check out the various tabs.

We always do a pre-shot test for safety - no shot under 200 mg/dL until you have test data showing it will be safe. if a dose was too high the time before, or the cat got sick/didn't eat, the pre-shot will clue you in. As you get more mid-cycle data, you may gradually lower the no shot limit to 150 so long as the lowest test stays above 50 mg/dL on a human glucometer.
 
When you have the time, a curve - testing from pre-shot to pre-shot, every 2 hours - will show you an overall pattern of insulin response.

When you can get tests around the nadir - +5 to +7 hours post shot - that helps monitor how low the cat is going.
 
What does everyone recommend as far as safe treats? I like to reward Charlie after having to draw a BG. I have been reluctantly giving JUST ONE seafood flavor temptations. I know they probably are high carb. Anyone have any good suggestions? Thanks again!
 
Hiya,

Regarding low carb treats, many of us here give freeze dried meat treats (or bonito flakes); and some folks give little cubes of cooked chicken or ham (sugar free). Others give no food treat at all, just a wee cuddle session! cat_pet_icon

Charlie looks like a real cutie! :smile:

Eliz
 
Hello! Welcome to FDMB!

You can find freeze dried chicken treats at most pet stores. My cat prefer them to the high carb treats they used to get!
 
You are all so unbelievably helpful during a very scary time for Charlie and I. Had a very tough week since hes been home from the emergency hospital. I was petrified to leave him home while I was at work because I was afraid he would become ketonic again. He came to work with me every day this week! And the weight loss wasn't good either. Last July he weighed 13 lbs, in November he weighed 10 lb but I did cut back his calories purposely because he was getting a little too heavy, so he lost 3 lbs between november and now. I feel like today we might be heading towards the right track. I still have a few questions and I apologize but I want to be confident that I am doing every single thing in my power to give Charlie the best shot at living a long, quality life. In general, should every new question be a "new topic"?
 
You can do a new topic when there is a fundamental change in what you need to know. Just put Charlie's name and the current date in the subject, plus hit the question icon unless it is a life threatening emergency.

The next step is to start testing and recording the glucose tests in our grid. We use Google Drive's spreadsheet to store and color code the numbers so you can see by the color patterns when shifts are happening. There are instructions here.
 
Welcome to Ellie and extra sweet kitty Charlie and so glad you found us on the message board.

Big hugs to you. Yes, it can be very hard at the beginning and a bit overwhelming with all the information, but you'll be an old hand and more confident in no time.

It took time for Charlie to become diabetic, it will take time to get him better. Hang in there, this does get better and easier and you will develop a new routine to fit Charlie's new needs into your schedule.
 
Another great treat is shrimp, freeze dried or fresh. Shrimp contains zero carbs. It was my sugarcat Bob's favorite treat. And mine as well. :-D
 
EllieKozak said:
...last November had a dental procedure to remedy a canine tooth that was interfering with the roof of his mouth. Other than that, he has been a happy healthy kitten. His second birthday was Sunday!
Click to expand...

This makes me wonder if perhaps he has another dental problem or perhaps an infection from before? Have you had his teeth checked out since the diagnosis?

ETA: If there were teeth removal, they might have to x-Ray for potential left-over splinters.
 
He had a root canal on that tooth die to the fact that it was poking him on the roof of his mouth. A follow up X-Ray showed no problems with that tooth. We didn't scale his teeth because there was virtually no tartar. He's 2 years old. Full blood work was done last week including a fructosamine that came back normal. He has all the vets baffled. Very frustrating...he's worth it though :)
 
A Fructosamine that was normal last week yet elevated BGs this week usually points to an infection of some sort. Especially coupled with the DKA (not enough insulin + not enough food + infection). Did they prescribe any antibiotics?

ETA: but if he were diagnosed diabetic 3 weeks ago, then how did his fructosamine from last week show normal?
 
The fructosamine was added on to his original labwork that alerted us to his dx. His glucose on the antech panel was 419 and then we added the fructosamine on which came back at 351 normal range 142-450. WBC was 12.3 (3.5-16.0). Urinalysis was neg for keyones with a 3+ glucose , +1 blood, 0-1 wbc, 0-1 rbc no bacteria, crystals, etc. This labwork was done on 6/13. Vet is corresponding with an internal med specialist. Would love any input and recommendations.
 
Okay, so on 6/13, his fructosamine showed him in normal range? And then on the weekend of 6/28 (or 6/21?), he had DKA? That definitely points to hyperglycemia vs. diabetic hyperglycemia. The difference being is that he became "diabetic" overnight, which leads me to suspect it's transient in nature. First step is to get him out of DKA and get the numbers down. Next step is to get rid of the infection that caused the DKA and is most likely causing the elevated BGs. What antibiotics, if any, had he been prescribed?
 
He has not been given antibiotics, the vet didn't believe he had an infection. It really did seem to come on overnight. But the weight loss was pretty significant (approx. 3 lbs). He had full labs done last November before the dental procedure and everything was perfect. Im pretty sure the DKA has resolved, I will bring him back on Monday for another evaluation/urinalysis etc. I would be more than thrilled if he "grows out of this" thank you for your advice!
 
Most common infections are dental (which sounds like he's okay), UTI (fairly common), and/or an abscess of some sort, like a scratch or bite mark. Before getting antibiotics, you generally want to determine the cause of the infection first so you can direct the appropriate antibiotics at the problem. If there's still no real clue as to what might be causing an infection, a broad-spectrum antibiotic might be used (just say no to convenia).

And many infections will not affect WBC if they are not systemic or were tested at onset.
 
It may be helpful to you and your vet to use the Secondary Monitoring Tools in my signature link. While some of them are non-specific and not as precise as blood glucose monitoring, they may provide clues to what is going on for your vet.
 
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